Just Fred

United States

#41 Jun 28, 2011
Chelle Jenx wrote:
<quoted text>
So that must be why many of our Presidents had tattoo's, huh?
Trailer trash...
35 0f the first 43 U.S. Presidents had tattoos.
James Polk had five dots like the dots on a dice.
Andrew Jackson had a giant tattoo of a tomahawk that ran down the length of the inside of his thigh.
President James Buchanon had a tattoo of a racy lookin woman on his chest.
President Teddy Roosevelt had a tattoo of his family crest
President George W. Bush, has a bald Eagle tattoo
I could go on...
I'm not sure where you dug this info up, but it is pretty interesting!

I like my tattoos, and I enjoy looking at other peoples tats as long as they are nicely done. I have seen some jail house tats that look shit and I have seen some prison tats that look as good as any I have ever seen.

I think what papa is saying, it is better to make yourself so obese, that you have no neck, than it is to have a little hidden ink?
What is Wrong

Watsontown, PA

#42 Jun 28, 2011
_Natalie wrote:
Personally, I don't find them very attractive--just somewhat more acceptable than weirdly placed facial/body piercings. First, they are permanent and can look silly as you age (what looks "cute" at 21 might be pathetic at 71). Also, the process is painful and puts you in a higher risk category for Aids/Hepatitis/Infection. Plus, it can be a real negative when looking for employment, especially if the tattoos are large and conspicuously placed.
Given all the negatives, why would you ever get one?
Ok, I'll start over from the original post, Personally, I find them very attractive. The are a form of personal expression, most of them are very beautiful and usually they mark an important event in a person's life, or have a story behind the tattoo, which I find fascinating. Pain is a relative term, what is painful to one person may not be to another. Common sense would say to check out the shop and the tattoo artist before having work done.

Given all the positives, why would I not want to get one?

See.. there is the difference.. I refer to myself wanting or not wanting to get one in the last line. She asked "Given all the negatives, why would you ever get one?". To me, in my opinion, that sounded judgmental against people with tattoos.

If the original post would of been something like "Tattoos seem to be more popular now. I don't think I would ever get one. I'm interested in what others think about this issue?" Well, that would of been a great post. Informative about her personal choice, with out sounding negative towards others.

But, I'm not in the Topix Clique, so I'm sure someone will bash me for my opinion.:)

“Rally Squirrel & Fred Bird ”

Since: Apr 11

Still Living at Busch Stadium

#43 Jun 28, 2011
Lol-I promise not to "bash", and welcome to Topix.

Tattoos are somewhat like human graffiti, which has it's own subculture. There are "writers" or "taggers" who express themselves and their ideas on a blank surface. They can be "throw-ups" or "burners", depending on the time and effort spent...they can be "top to bottom" or "e2e" or "whole-car"...depend ing on the extent of coverage.

Is graffiti beautiful or not?

I'll answer with my opinion, and then you can respond accordingly. I've lived in very large cities and seen plenty of graffiti. The work itself can be extraordinary--complex, stark, fascinating, and even emotionally moving. There are some extemely talented graffiti taggers who definitely rise to the level of artists. It's the context in which it appears that makes it often seem jarring and visually wrong. Sometimes graffiti melds into its surroundings, but often it seems out of place in the landscape. So, in my opinion, graffiti on rare occasions is extremely beautiful...but for the most part, it brings down the value of the neighborhood.

:)

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#44 Jun 28, 2011
It may surprise some to hear that Bob has a few tattoos on his body. When he has certain business meetings, he does make sure they are covered. However, there are few that can't be covered.

On his knuckles the words love/hate are proudly displayed. He also has one on his neck....it is the Oakland Raiders symbol. He has a tattoo on each eyelid that...well I will let him tell you what is on each eyelid.
What is Wrong

Watsontown, PA

#45 Jun 28, 2011
While I would not of linked Tattoos with Graffiti, I understand your point. I would liken it to my brother's neighborhood. He lives in a nice neighborhood in Kansas City. His neighbor's house was sold and the new owners decided to paint it a hot pink.(it's part brick, part wood) While some may not like the hot pink color (my brother included), it is the owner's right to paint his own house any color including hot pink. The owner obviously loves the color and loves how his house looks. I probably would not paint my house hot pink, but I'm not going to question him why he painted his that color.

:)

“Rally Squirrel & Fred Bird ”

Since: Apr 11

Still Living at Busch Stadium

#46 Jun 28, 2011
What is Wrong wrote:
While I would not of linked Tattoos with Graffiti, I understand your point. I would liken it to my brother's neighborhood. He lives in a nice neighborhood in Kansas City. His neighbor's house was sold and the new owners decided to paint it a hot pink.(it's part brick, part wood) While some may not like the hot pink color (my brother included), it is the owner's right to paint his own house any color including hot pink. The owner obviously loves the color and loves how his house looks. I probably would not paint my house hot pink, but I'm not going to question him why he painted his that color.
:)
I've been to Bermuda, and that hot pink house would fit right in there. Its like any real estate agent will tell you: location, location, location!

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#47 Jun 28, 2011
What is Wrong wrote:
While I would not of linked Tattoos with Graffiti, I understand your point. I would liken it to my brother's neighborhood. He lives in a nice neighborhood in Kansas City. His neighbor's house was sold and the new owners decided to paint it a hot pink.(it's part brick, part wood) While some may not like the hot pink color (my brother included), it is the owner's right to paint his own house any color including hot pink. The owner obviously loves the color and loves how his house looks. I probably would not paint my house hot pink, but I'm not going to question him why he painted his that color.
:)
Your brother should have a *Home owners Association* if he lives in a nice neighborhood. Most have a color chart that will limit the the tint/color that one can paint their house. He should check into this.

:)
Dora Webb

Chillicothe, MO

#48 Jun 28, 2011
Papa wrote:
In the United States, forty years ago, any one with a tattoo would fall into the category of mental illness (schizophrenia) or antisocial personality. Over the years, a new category has emerged: trailer trash mentality.
Go ahead and express yourself with your tattoos. We will figure what personality/mentality type you are.
Sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. Fire away all you tattoo freaks.
Please don't fall into the abyss of using mental health diagnoses out of context or lack of information, especially in such a pejorative sense. While people with a variety of mental health diagnoses do have tattoos, there has never been any research or any criteria in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manuals (DSMs)liinking tattoos to schizophrenia, personality disorders, or anything of the sort. The common/popular practice of labeling something with mental health terminology does a disservice to those who struggle with such challenges. You certainly would not have used a somatic diagnosis (carcinoma, diabetes, etc.) to make your point, and this makes no more sense. Denigrating others in such a way (either because of body art or mental illness) only makes the poster look small.

Some people may choose body art after a lot of research and thought; for others it may be an act of impulsivity or cognitive impairment related to substance abuse (either episodic--after a night of overindulgence, or chronic). My uncle entered the Navy at 16 and retired as a Lt.Com mander. He said he never had a tattoo until Pearl Harbor, when he came up wearing only his skivvies and had lost his tags, he got his only tat...his miilitary ID number. He was also at Normandy...probably had PTSD from some of the things I've heard through the years, but his tat had nothing to do with "mental illness."

I don't personally care for body art, but it's not my choice if it's on another's body. But, to those who say, "Don't look," if it's not in a covered/private location, your whole point in getting it was so people >would< look at the way you chose to express yourself--I can't miss those little teardrops if I'm looking at your face...and yes, I know what they mean.

“Just Think of Duck Sauce ”

Since: Oct 09

Where the Green Grass Grows

#49 Jun 28, 2011
Interesting cat...Did you know tats on your eyelids are not tattooed on. They are injected like botox into the skin with a single needle...ouch.

I would have to say, waxing my eyebrows is painfull. But only after the first rip. I imagine, like getting a tattoo after a while it just becomes a dull annoying pain.

People wear high heels that cause pain. Even goin the route of getting their toes shortened to fit into a pair of shoes. I like my toes personally, and wouldn't saw them off to fit into a pair of shoes. But lots of high class business women do it.

Fred-I was watching a documentary of tats. It was a convention. You might be surprised to find out what these people do. Many are business men and women who hide them with suits and neck ties. Back in the day, if you were an aristocrat, getting a tat was the thing to do. It was all the rage. It showed your status. I believe in the 1920's and 30's. When tats began to change who had them and what they meant ect

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#50 Jun 28, 2011
Chelle Jenx wrote:
Interesting cat...Did you know tats on your eyelids are not tattooed on. They are injected like botox into the skin with a single needle...ouch.
I would have to say, waxing my eyebrows is painfull. But only after the first rip. I imagine, like getting a tattoo after a while it just becomes a dull annoying pain.
People wear high heels that cause pain. Even goin the route of getting their toes shortened to fit into a pair of shoes. I like my toes personally, and wouldn't saw them off to fit into a pair of shoes. But lots of high class business women do it.
Fred-I was watching a documentary of tats. It was a convention. You might be surprised to find out what these people do. Many are business men and women who hide them with suits and neck ties. Back in the day, if you were an aristocrat, getting a tat was the thing to do. It was all the rage. It showed your status. I believe in the 1920's and 30's. When tats began to change who had them and what they meant ect
Bob and botox....now that is very interesting.
shrimpeater

United States

#51 Jun 28, 2011
We judge people, by the color of their skin,the kind of job they have,the kind of house or car they drive,and if they have tattoos.
For the last 3 to 4 years Ive thought about
getting one, but Im not sure what to get.
We dont judge doctors,presidents,lawyers or even Lobo by their tattoos, or do we?
Papa

Chillicothe, MO

#52 Jun 29, 2011
Dora Webb wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't fall into the abyss of using mental health diagnoses out of context or lack of information, especially in such a pejorative sense. While people with a variety of mental health diagnoses do have tattoos, there has never been any research or any criteria in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manuals (DSMs)liinking tattoos to schizophrenia, personality disorders, or anything of the sort. The common/popular practice of labeling something with mental health terminology does a disservice to those who struggle with such challenges. You certainly would not have used a somatic diagnosis (carcinoma, diabetes, etc.) to make your point, and this makes no more sense. Denigrating others in such a way (either because of body art or mental illness) only makes the poster look small.
Some people may choose body art after a lot of research and thought; for others it may be an act of impulsivity or cognitive impairment related to substance abuse (either episodic--after a night of overindulgence, or chronic). My uncle entered the Navy at 16 and retired as a Lt.Com mander. He said he never had a tattoo until Pearl Harbor, when he came up wearing only his skivvies and had lost his tags, he got his only tat...his miilitary ID number. He was also at Normandy...probably had PTSD from some of the things I've heard through the years, but his tat had nothing to do with "mental illness."
I don't personally care for body art, but it's not my choice if it's on another's body. But, to those who say, "Don't look," if it's not in a covered/private location, your whole point in getting it was so people >would< look at the way you chose to express yourself--I can't miss those little teardrops if I'm looking at your face...and yes, I know what they mean.
There has been and still are ongoing studies regarding tattoos and personality disorders. I Googled "Personality disorder + tattoo". Here are some links:

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots...

http://www.suite101.com/content/what-tattoos-...

http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/rebel.html

http://brainandspine.titololawoffice.com/2008...
Papa

Chillicothe, MO

#53 Jun 29, 2011
Here is an abstract of an article about tattoos and psychotic disorders:

Tattoos of all kinds have been found to be associated with marginal groups, antisocial behaviours and mental health problems. Little is known, however, about the subgroup with prominent tattoos on areas of the body, such as the face, which are clearly visible to others. This paper investigates associations between visible tattoos and mental disorder, substance misuse and criminality in a large group of adult male prisoners. Childhood adversity, drug and alcohol misuse, self-harm, violent behaviour and previous imprisonment were all found to be significantly associated with the presence of visible tattoos in this population. Whilst prior contact with psychiatric services was also significantly more common, no relationship existed between visible tattoos and lifetime DSM-IV mental disorder per se. Personality disorder was not found to be more prevalent in the visibly tattooed group, but a statistically significant relationship was demonstrated between visible tattoos and schizophrenia or related psychotic disorders. Therefore, we recommend caution when screening such individuals for mental disorder. At first glance the history may suggest personality disorder, but further enquiry should be undertaken to look for signs and symptoms indicating a functional psychotic disorder.
Dora Webb

Chillicothe, MO

#54 Jun 29, 2011
Papa wrote:
Here is an abstract of an article about tattoos and psychotic disorders:
Tattoos of all kinds have been found to be associated with marginal groups, antisocial behaviours and mental health problems. Little is known, however, about the subgroup with prominent tattoos on areas of the body, such as the face, which are clearly visible to others. This paper investigates associations between visible tattoos and mental disorder, substance misuse and criminality in a large group of adult male prisoners. Childhood adversity, drug and alcohol misuse, self-harm, violent behaviour and previous imprisonment were all found to be significantly associated with the presence of visible tattoos in this population. Whilst prior contact with psychiatric services was also significantly more common, no relationship existed between visible tattoos and lifetime DSM-IV mental disorder per se. Personality disorder was not found to be more prevalent in the visibly tattooed group, but a statistically significant relationship was demonstrated between visible tattoos and schizophrenia or related psychotic disorders. Therefore, we recommend caution when screening such individuals for mental disorder. At first glance the history may suggest personality disorder, but further enquiry should be undertaken to look for signs and symptoms indicating a functional psychotic disorder.
Well, of course...anyone who has worked with the chronically mentally ill, forensic patients, and criminals is aware of the fact that these populations generally have more tattoos than the general population. However, buried in the middle of this abstract are the two salient points: "...no relationship existed between visible tattoos and lifetime DSM-IV mental disorder per se. Personality disorder was not found to be more prevalent in the visibly tattooed group..." I was addressing that this was not part of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM, and the propensity of lay people to throw mental health terminology about whilly-nilly.
Dora Webb

Chillicothe, MO

#55 Jun 29, 2011
I should have phrased it more clearly, since lots of people do lots of research on lots of topics, and clinicians certainly look at the whole picture when making an assessment, but the research that goes into developing the DSM criteria does not use tattoos as a diagnostic marker for schizophrenia or personality disorders.
Papa

Chillicothe, MO

#56 Jun 30, 2011
Dora Webb wrote:
I should have phrased it more clearly, since lots of people do lots of research on lots of topics, and clinicians certainly look at the whole picture when making an assessment, but the research that goes into developing the DSM criteria does not use tattoos as a diagnostic marker for schizophrenia or personality disorders.
You are absolutely correct that having a tattoo is not one of the criteria for having schizophrenia or personality disorder. However, like fever is a nonspecific symptom for infection, a tattoo is associated often enough with functional schizophrenia and personality disorder that the presence of one should alert the physician or psychologist to the possibility that his patient may have one of these disorders.
Grace

Kansas City, MO

#58 Jul 1, 2011
Good grief papa, if everyone used your analogy it would be like saying since you have a penis you are a rapist. Heaven forbid, since I have boobs I must be a ho. Your statements are ridiculous. Go have a beer you alcoholic.
Papa

Chillicothe, MO

#59 Jul 1, 2011
Grace wrote:
Good grief papa, if everyone used your analogy it would be like saying since you have a penis you are a rapist. Heaven forbid, since I have boobs I must be a ho. Your statements are ridiculous. Go have a beer you alcoholic.
Let me be the first to nominate you for "NITWIT OF THE YEAR". It is obvious that you did not read any of those articles I posted links to. Maybe you are too stupid to understand these studies. I did not make this stuff up. There is a real correlation of tattoos and schizophrenia and personality disorders.

As far as having a beer, no thank you, I don't drink beer. I would drink an alcoholic beverage however; but since I only do so one or two times a year, I will wait to enjoy it some other time, not when some nitwit posts something she doesn't understand and really doesn't want to learn about.

By the way, how many tattoos do you have? Did I hit a little nerve there Gracie?
Dora Webb

Chillicothe, MO

#60 Jul 10, 2011
Papa wrote:
<quoted text>
You are absolutely correct that having a tattoo is not one of the criteria for having schizophrenia or personality disorder. However, like fever is a nonspecific symptom for infection, a tattoo is associated often enough with functional schizophrenia and personality disorder that the presence of one should alert the physician or psychologist to the possibility that his patient may have one of these disorders.
I have found some of your posts interesting and reasoned, although I have noted a number of ad hominem attacks, too.

read the links you posted on this subject, but I am assuming from the posts I've previously read about/by you that you have no training or professional experience in the mental health field. Homelessness/substance abuse/poor hygiene/long stringy unkempt hair/poor insight & judgement/raggedy clothing/chain smoking cigarettes/poor financial management/etc., may not only be observed in clients with schizophrenia and personality disorders, but also in adolescents, veterans, long-term unemployed in the current economic climate, college students, farm workers, artists & musicians, etc. Tattoos are not a diagnostic red flag. One would not jump to assessing someone with schizophrenia or a personality disorder based on any one of these, but would look at the constellation of presenting signs and symptoms. I stand by my original premise that an untrained lay person linking tattoos to severe mental health disorders does a disservice to those who deal with those challenges--it is stereotyping, plain and simple.

Also, the above use of "functional schizophrenia" makes about as much sense as a "functional" diabetic, "functional" paraplegic, "functional" heart patient, etc.(especially in arguing that tattoos are associated with >dys<function)...the goal is for clients to be "functional." That means they are managing their condition adequately and getting on with the business of living, so tattoos would be of no more relevance than for someone in the population at large.
shrimpeater

United States

#61 Jul 10, 2011
Someone needs to call DR. PHILL LOL
He may have a tattoo.

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