The Great prophet Nostradamus predicts "Total Ghetto" in 10 years from now!

Why you ask?

Good Question!

The few areas of the Heights that are by the minimalist standards to be considered "OK', are for the first time I've ever seen, have "For Sale" signs out enmasse. Take the Country Club Road area, arguably the nicest neighborhood in Chicago Heights, NEVER, have I seen so many for sale signs.

And the stone cold reality, is that No One wants to move to Chicago Heights. Its painful to aknowledge, but true nonetheless. Are young professionals moving here to "raise a family", only if they have less than 4 brain cells. As it stands, real estate is an investment, and buying in Chicago Heights offers zero as far as Rate of Return on Investment is concerned.

Lights out, The party's over

Ahhhhh....Nostradamus, say it isn't so!

I really don't have an opinion to your poll (otherwise I would have taken it) because I don't know enough about what's going on out there. That's why I've been around these boards...just trying to learn about a city I once loved.

I have noticed the real estate for sale around the Country Club Road area - and yes, there were certainly some old cool homes around there! Although, I did not think there were that many for sale in the area.

It's probably true that not too many people want to move to the Heights.....maybe real estate moves laterally in the Heights - people from the Heights moving to other homes in the Heights. And I agree, the Heights is probably not a great place to "raise a family" anymore - which is a shame. So many of my friends were raised in the Heights surrounded by friends and family. Many of my CH friends are quite successful today. Sad the city went to hell. But I guess things like this happen in life. There are probably too many complex issues as to the big question - why.

Sad but true.

If we don't get these thugs out of town, if will be a ghetto. I'm for using any means possible, I don't care how extreme, get these thugs out of CH

Does anyone know of any crime-ridden towns/cities that have had success cleaning it up? I would imagine there are areas where this has been done successfully?

Although, of course, this is not just a problem in CH. Many areas suffer blight, crime, drugs, etc. For some reason it seems like these areas "give up" instead of fighting back & saving their towns. They just seem to give way & "allow" so to speak the ignorant fools who perpetuate crime & drugs to take hold of their own neighborhoods. This is a shame.

Ahhh the dream of all dreams... clean up Chicago Heights once and for all. OH WAIT! Big problem, we can clean up CH, but what about Harvey, Midlothian, Markham, Olympia Fields, Matteson,Flossmoor, Homewood, Glenwood, Lansing, Lynwood, Cal City, Richton Park, Park Forest, University Park, Steger, Sauk Village, Crete (has anyone else noticed that Seehausens has a sign now "No backpacks, book bags or duffle bags allowed in the store") gee, I wonder why.Maybe it has something to do with the men running out of the store with bag boys chasing him down the street for stealing food(witnessed with my OWN eyes) NO ONE is cleaning anything up, just the opposite, the slime is running south and will continue until it hits corn field!!!

Synderesis wrote:

Does anyone know of any crime-ridden towns/cities that have had success cleaning it up? I would imagine there are areas where this has been done successfully?
Although, of course, this is not just a problem in CH. Many areas suffer blight, crime, drugs, etc. For some reason it seems like these areas "give up" instead of fighting back & saving their towns. They just seem to give way & "allow" so to speak the ignorant fools who perpetuate crime & drugs to take hold of their own neighborhoods. This is a shame.

Flossmoor needs cleaning up?

Even Tempered

Great point. Even if miracle happened and CH, was able to clean up the crime, and somehow a market emerged for housing, and business. Still, CH is surrounded by towns with very similar problems. Though Homewood and Flossmoor, in my opinion have nowhere near the problems of CH, Stegar, etc.

I read a book that talked about issues facing the Chicago Metropolitan region. The number one issue according to this publication was "regional Planning". Why? As it turns out there is too much government in the Chicago metro region. In comparison to metro areas of similar size, i.e. New York and L.A. Chicagoland has like triple the amount of goverment than the NewYork metro.

Apparently what happened was, New York, being a much older city, was able to expand its borders via annexation of land. In contrast, Chicago, which is younger than New York, and 75% of it burned down in the Great Fire, and annexation was exacerbated by Suburban expansion Post WW2. So, as we know, buy just looking at the south suburbs, there are so many different municipalities, each local government having its own agenda, and it makes regional planning for the entire metro area almost imposssible.

This something that should be taken into account for whoever wants to take a crack at improving the Heights. Long term planning, will somehow have to be achieved in conjuntion and consensus with our neighbors.

It was intresting also, in this book, that I've been paraphrasing from, it mentioned that with the gentrification of the near South Side(go over across the expressway from U.S. Cellular, the projects have been torn down, and 500,000 condos are up right by IIT campus) this gentrification is expected to expand further south atleast to 59street Hyde Park, and Washington Park(especially with the Chicago Olympic bid.) The people who have been living in these areas of the Southside will be driven out, and the prediction is they will end up in the southern suburbs. The intresting bit they mention in this book is, that given the needs of this demographic, and NOT being in a big city where not taking care of it by politicians would end up being bad PR for Daley, that if they end up in the southern burbs, the local towns/mayors won't be able to do anything about the social/economic needs of these residents, and therefor they see that the TOWNSHIPS, and the President of various TOWNSHIPS will take over the role that mayors currently do.

I've got to re-read the book, to better convey what I'm trying to convey, Patience, I'll post more intresting tid-bits on development in the next 5 days or so.

"In contrast, Chicago, which is younger than New York, and 75% of it burned down in the Great Fire, and annexation was not allowed to occur at what would have been its natural pace, this was primarily due to and exacerbated by Suburban expansion Post WW2. So, as we know, buy just looking at the south suburbs, there are so many different municipalities, each local government having its own agenda, and it makes regional planning for the entire metro area almost imposssible."
I made a slight correction to my previous post which is reflected in the quote above.
Also, I know there are organizations like the one that local mayors attend, started I believe by a former Harvey, mayor, and there is also Chicago 2020 that works to tackle regional planning issues, there publications, and recomendatons are superb, due to the "too much government" issue, little has been able to be accomplished on that front.
The suburbs that are in better shape, be it, Frankfurt, Mokena, Orland Park, Naperville, Schaumburg are not exactly enthusiastic about cooperating, with economically depressed suburbs like CH, Harvey, etc.
Ideally what needs to be accomplished in the Chicago metro area, is more public transit, and massive development off of Public Transit, known as (TOD) Tranist oriented development, think downtown Homewood, but more dense!
The market for this is obvious, as is well known in real estate circles, presently, that despite the problems in real estate, TOD development continues to do quite well. Also, you can see this in various local burbs, moving to develop and expand there downtown areas, Tinely Park, Orland Park, Elmhurst etc etc. And look at other major cities that were designed in the Suburban fashion, i.e. Phoenix, and L.A. All of sudden they have thrown there dedication to Suburban style development out the window, and moving as fast as they can to implement TOD development.
Lastly, what is needed for the metro region as a whole, is a Progressive Tax scheme. No, I'm not advocating an increase in your taxes for CH, but rather regional tax sharing that encompasses the entire metro to region.
This type of Progressive Tax scheme(Tax Sharing) was implented, and is still in effect in cities like Minneapolis MN,(implemented in the 1970;s) and it has resulted in the Minneapolis Metro being devoid of entire regions turning into slums, unlike the Chicago Metro. All the surrounding communities, including city of Minneapolis, the taxed collected are distributed in a way that allocated money to areas that and issues that need them, differentiating from year to year. It works.
And is generally embraced by the local population.
But, naturally, are the residents of Schaumburg, Naperville, etc going to embrace something like this. NO! And the 'to much government" issue rears its ugly head. So what you end up with, is areas that can't have High property taxes because residents can't afford them, so infrastructure deteriorates over time due lack of funds, and loss of business

AND.....The even bigger question is WHY has the mayor and CH politicians been heavily involved with Chicago Metropolis 2020. I have the very REAL feeling that they are to damn stubborn, and in one way or another a bunch of "know it alls"

Check out Chicago Metropolis 2020(Read the reports.)

www.chicagometropolis2020.org

that is Why havent' they been involved with organizations like this, there are many!!!!

Stubborn, Hardheaded?

(I must be the worst person on this board with respect to typos!)

Mike_K wrote:

that is Why havent' they been involved with organizations like this, there are many!!!!
Stubborn, Hardheaded?
(I must be the worst person on this board with respect to typos!)

Hi Mike...

I've read your posts and find them very interesting. What is this book you're reading?

See, I knew there were more, deeper reasons to CH, Harvey, Sauk Village, Steger, etc. being depressed cities than the usual argument that the "bad element" moved in. I think that type of answer is an ignorant cop-out. You've provided some very interesting food for thought.

It does seem to make sense that these towns need to come together and work together. Also, the TOD is important as well. I live in Arlington Heights - right near downtown Arlington Heights - and the area is really coming together. Wonderful restaurants, nice shops, parks, Metropolis Theatre, lots of new condos, etc.

Also, there was a letter to the editor in today's Trib written by some kind of Urban Planner - responding to suburban sprawl. She was talking about how we actually need to be more geared towards denser TOD because it's better economically and (believe it or not) environmentally. She was talking about this in terms of the anti-dote so to speak of suburban sprawl. Anyway, it was interesting and perhaps this may be a way of the future for our South Suburbs.

Synderesis

I admire your ability to question the topic who are discussing. It shows a tremendous amount of intelligence on your part.

I've read many, many books on the topics of Economic Development, Urban Planning and Renewal, as we as various Sociological and Cultural books to understand better the diversity of the metro area.

I would recommend to start, A book called Suburban Nation http://www.amazon.com/Suburban-Nation-Sprawl-...

This book talks about TOD, and you can relate as to what is going on in your town. Its a school of thought on Planning called New Urbanism, but the gist is, that it is not new at all, it was the way we as nation, as well how every other developed nation in the world has always, and continues to develop. Its a really easy read, that I think you'll find informative, but fun as well. Start with this book

The second book I would recommend is "The New Chicago:A social and cultural analysis" This book is written by a some former professors of mine, and will really give a jolt to how well we all REALLY now Chicago and its metro, from a social, and cultural standpoint.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Chicago-Social-Cult...

There are so many books on the subject its hard to prioritze, and the reality is that one needs knowledge not just of Urban Planning, or Economic Development, but also Sociology, knowledge of the political climate, etc. etc.

Going back years and years, back when Suburbs started to become the new way of building, there
was a book written by a guy named William Whyte called the Organization Man. Whyte who I believe was like an editor at Fortune Magazine or something wrote a well known book that documents the first suburb built around an automobile dependant shopping Mall.....Park Forest, IL. He documents the changes in human behavior in this new environment, which he concludes in (1955) is appalling.

http://www.amazon.com/Organization-Man-Willia...

In contrast at about the same time, the Legendary Urbanist Jane Jacobs wrote a book Called "The Death and Life of Great American Cities, which she talks about the flight of people from her beloved East Village in New York, to suburbs, again written in the early 1950's. Both Jane Jacobs, and William Whytes assesments of Post World WarII suburbia, and decline of building traditional neighborhoods re enforce one another, and considering when they were written in the early stages of Suburban development and sprawl, I find quite prophetic
http://www.amazon.com/Death-Life-Great-Americ...

These are but a few of some books I've read, but I can't stress enough understanding everything from the Economic Development and Planning books to the sociological and cultural factors, to truly get an accurate portrait. It takes time to read books, but if your a reader, I think they will help to shape a new outlook in how we live in general

I'll post more later

My I just don't stop with the postings!!!!! I apologize to all I am annoying.

There is a recent documentary out called
The End of Suburbia:Oil Depletion and the Collapse of the American Dream.

http://www.amazon.com/End-Suburbia-Depletion-...

I have yet to see this doc, but I am going to buy it soon. Check it out after Reading the book Suburban Nation.

Here is a Trailer to The End of Suburbia(YouTube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Mike_K wrote:

My I just don't stop with the postings!!!!! I apologize to all I am annoying.
There is a recent documentary out called
The End of Suburbia:Oil Depletion and the Collapse of the American Dream.
http://www.amazon.com/End-Suburbia-Depletion-...
I have yet to see this doc, but I am going to buy it soon. Check it out after Reading the book Suburban Nation.
Here is a Trailer to The End of Suburbia(YouTube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Hi Mike..

Not annoying at all - but very interesting.

I am a huge reader and I very much enjoy sociology, culture, history, etc. I have not read too many books on urban planning or that kind of thing - but a couple of the books you mentioned sound really interesting, so I think I'll check them out. Thanks a lot for the info on that.

I grew up in Homewood and had many friends in the Heights. I have always been interested in the beginnings and evolution of Homewood and south suburban areas. And although I have not lived there permanently since I left for college 23 years ago (man, that long?!?!?) I do come back home for visits and I have a deep emotional tie to the area.

Maybe DeLuca should start reading those books you listed and take some of those courses from your former profs!:) Not sure how deep his experience is and I wonder how much he truly knows about the type of issues you mention.

Thanks again, Mike for your really interesting posts.

...and of course feel free to browse the documentary website wwww.endofsuburbia.com

Well, I hope you buy some/most of these books and Read them, start following organizations like Chicago Metropolis 2020 and there recommendations
www.chicagometropolis2020.org

and investigate further whats being done in and around Chicago and nationally. READ, READ, READ

Center For Neighborhood Technolog
http://www.cnt.org/

Fresh Squeeze Chicago
http://afreshsqueeze.com/

Congress For New Urbanism
http://www.cnu.org/

Another New Urbanism Webstite
http://www.newurbanism.org/

Mike_K wrote:

...and of course feel free to browse the documentary website wwww.endofsuburbia.com
Well, I hope you buy some/most of these books and Read them, start following organizations like Chicago Metropolis 2020 and there recommendations
www.chicagometropolis2020.org
and investigate further whats being done in and around Chicago and nationally. READ, READ, READ
Center For Neighborhood Technolog
http://www.cnt.org/
Fresh Squeeze Chicago
http://afreshsqueeze.com/
Congress For New Urbanism
http://www.cnu.org/
Another New Urbanism Webstite
http://www.newurbanism.org/

Holy cow! Honestly, I love to read.....but lately don't have enough time. I'm in real estate and we have to work twice as hard now for our money!! But I will print out your list so I don't forget these. Thanks.

:)

If I had to pick just one book that YOU MUST read it is Suburban Nation. This one is the most intresting to me, and literally an easy read, I finished it i like a day, I couldn't put it down.

Since I am apparently the Extremist on this topic, I thought it would be appropriate to comment.

First of Mike_K, I think you have some good ideas as to the direction economically, the city ought to look at. Bringing in outside expertise, and sooner rather than later sounds good to me. I'm like everyone else on this board who loves Chicago Heights, and we all want the same thing that is to improve our problems. And as I've stated in my previous rants, I'm for using any and all means possible. So I agree with you on Economic Development.

I think the current administration has good intentions and are doing everything they can to combat our problems in the city.

But the crime has just gotta stop. I've mentioned the possibility of a law being passed to people who have committed violent crimes, to be banned by law from gaining residency in the city. I don't know how legally feasible this is, if at all, but its worth a look.

On a more radical note, I've mentioned the prospect of forming a civillian organization that operates kind of like the minutemen but focuses strictly on Chicago Heights. This organization can tackle Illegal Immigration, Crime, Drugs etc, in cooperation with the Police Department, who are the primary protectors of the law. Full cooperation with them is essential.

....Looks whats in the news today! More talk on expanding public transit. Now all we need is a President, Congress, and Senate that will allocate funding for it. ithttp://www.popularmechanics. com/technology/transportation/ 4232548.html