ACLU of VA Challenges Charlottesville Panhandling Ordinance

February 21, 2013 - An ACLU of Virginia lawsuit challenging Charlottesville's ban on panhandling on the Downtown Mall within 50 feet of cross streets may proceed, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled today. Full Story
Rational

Rice, VA

#1 Feb 21, 2013
"But the First Amendment does not allow the government to ban speech simply to prevent discomfort"

What about to prevent economic harm? As in, people do not come to the DTM and spend money at local businesses because of these people.
County Resident

Raleigh, NC

#2 Feb 21, 2013
So find it in the First Amendment where it bans free speech to prevent economic harm.
Dude

Marshall, VA

#3 Feb 21, 2013
Rational wrote:
"But the First Amendment does not allow the government to ban speech simply to prevent discomfort"
What about to prevent economic harm? As in, people do not come to the DTM and spend money at local businesses because of these people.
Nope, it doesn't ban it then, either. The simple solution is to extend the boundaries of the leases to the middle of the street of the mall and charge them for trespass.
business owner

Silver Spring, MD

#4 Feb 21, 2013
Dude is correct.... this is the only easy way around this.

The only other way is to label panhandling as a business and make the people get a license.

When they ask for money they are selling a product which is guilt relief or some other sense of positive salvation. Whatever emotion the person giving the money "feels" as a result of the transaction is the "product" and thus a license can be required.

Of course another way to reduce the problem is to pass a law that no homeless get help from city tax dollars unles they have been a city resident for at least a year. That would probably get rid of half of them in a month.
Pez

Charlottesville, VA

#5 Feb 21, 2013
Let's drop of the beggars in front of the homes of all ACLU members - with nice shiny signs.
new hammer time

Richmond, VA

#6 Feb 21, 2013
business owner wrote:
Dude is correct.... this is the only easy way around this.
The only other way is to label panhandling as a business and make the people get a license.
When they ask for money they are selling a product which is guilt relief or some other sense of positive salvation. Whatever emotion the person giving the money "feels" as a result of the transaction is the "product" and thus a license can be required.
Of course another way to reduce the problem is to pass a law that no homeless get help from city tax dollars unles they have been a city resident for at least a year. That would probably get rid of half of them in a month.
your statement is utterly ridiculous......where do you ppl. get crap like that from?
sez you

Charlottesville, VA

#7 Feb 21, 2013
How about vagrancy, loitering? you got to loiter to beg. Don't think you can privatise the mall, otherwise whos gonna do the maintenance and clean up?
no solicitors

United States

#8 Feb 22, 2013
stop solicitation
Dude

Bumpass, VA

#9 Feb 22, 2013
sez you wrote:
How about vagrancy, loitering? you got to loiter to beg. Don't think you can privatise the mall, otherwise whos gonna do the maintenance and clean up?
The Mall can't be privatized, but you can extend the leases to the middle of the street, giving rights to the Lessee. Otherwise, it's a messy legal battle. Vague vagrancy and loitering laws are also unconstitutional.

"The Supreme Court ruled that a Chicago anti-loitering law is unconstitutional because it violated one’s first Amendment right to assemble peaceably."
http://libertarianrock.com/1999/06/supreme-co...

"The court held that the vagrancy ordinance was unconstitutionally vague because it gave too much arbitrary power to the police. The court found that the laws could potentially criminalize a variety of innocent activities, such as "Nightwalking," or "habitually living 'without visible means of support.'" A valid law, the Court found, needed to be clearly written and evenly administered."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._...

sez you

Charlottesville, VA

#10 Feb 22, 2013
Probably a moot point anyway, I'm sure there were a multitude of loiterers and beggars out during the Depression, we ain't that far away from one now, a depression that is.
Liz

North Garden, VA

#11 Feb 23, 2013
I think extending the property line for the leasee to the middle of the mall is an excellent idea. After all, the city charges people after it snows to clear the sidewalk even though the city owns the sidewalk. The ACLU needs to stay out of this. At some point the needs of the many, has to supercede the needs of the one or few. You cannot let 5 people dictate the economics of an entire city block of a business district. This has gone beyond ridiculous. The city needs to do something for the businesses that is legal that will help them get rid of the vagrants who are hurting those businesses.
DNTN

Rocky Mount, VA

#12 Feb 23, 2013
Panhandling on the downtown mall :
shared signs shared dogs shared money
EBT Escalade

Charlottesville, VA

#13 Feb 23, 2013
None of these guys are homeless---they all live on the public dime in a subsidized setting of one type or another. Check out the faces of some on the Wall of Shame at the Lucky Seven then check them out in the district court website.

Five of many reasons to avoid the downtown mall like the plague.
Jimmy

Richmond, VA

#14 Feb 25, 2013
make it a state law thus ends the discussions
sez you

Charlottesville, VA

#15 Feb 25, 2013
Found myself down on the mall today, unfortunately. I was first insulted by some guy begging through his harmonica, then looking closer, was aghast at the filth impregnated into the 6 million dollars worth of bricks they put down. The place is trashed.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Chesterfield Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Jesus Christ, the Son of God 13 hr HaHa 5
Why They Hate Obama (Aug '13) 14 hr VN Vet 12,320
A Factor Not Considered when Dealing with Ebola... Tue Concerned Citizen 6
Gang stalking and psychological harassment in R... Tue JJJ 2
join the great illuminati in Kebbi state to get... Tue Dr Evans 1
Why Are Petersburg Students so darn Stupid, wor... (Oct '12) Mon Proud 33
SOL scores a mixed bag for area schools Aug '14 Rife 1
Chesterfield Dating
Find my Match

Chesterfield Jobs

Chesterfield People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Chesterfield News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chesterfield

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]