TSF

Spring Hope, NC

#42380 Sep 12, 2013
Agree EXCEPT: Fighters were airborne on 9.11.01 and in a holding pattern off Long Island, armed , ready, and waiting for orders which never came. HW Bush was having breakfast with a Bin Laden family member, Dubya was doing a pr photo op at a Florida school and Cheany was hiding. But lets pretend that didn't happen and that our present president is worse than that. How much worse than that could anyone get?
100 Missions wrote:
<quoted text>
I know some disagree and don't like the concept, but peace through superior firepower works. That is what kept the world safe during the Cold War. We kept manned interceptors on alert. We had our entire bomber force on constant alert. 9/11 was a success for the terrorist in part because of our having no fighters sitting for scramble. With the old Cold War over some think we can just sit back and relax. I believe in having a strong enough defense to stand off any nation that wishes us ill. Now I know this sounds conflicting with my reluctance to go to war in a hurry. I don't think money better spent on our own country should be wasted in brush wars in the mid east or anywhere else. But we should be strong enough to stand off any direct threat. Build defensive forces, build the economy, put people back to work. Those are the main things to accomplish to make this nation safe and strong.
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42381 Sep 12, 2013
TSF wrote:
Agree EXCEPT: Fighters were airborne on 9.11.01 and in a holding pattern off Long Island, armed , ready, and waiting for orders which never came. HW Bush was having breakfast with a Bin Laden family member, Dubya was doing a pr photo op at a Florida school and Cheany was hiding. But lets pretend that didn't happen and that our present president is worse than that. How much worse than that could anyone get?
<quoted text>
Not totally correct.I know that day very well. The fighters that arrived off New York were delayed in getting airborne. They then had typical FAA red tape issues on going through the Mach to speed up their response. The first aircraft in the air were F-15A aircraft from Otis ANG Base in Mass. Later North Dakota Air National Guard F-16 aircraft that were TDY at Langley scrambled. The whole response was caught pants down. The F-16 Wings at Atlantic City and Andrews could have responded faster, but both Wings were in a stand down from alert duty that day.The North Dakota Air Guard aircraft once airborne took up a CAP orbit over D.C. and then responded to the Pa. point to attempt an intercept on the plane that crashed.The D.C. Air Guard then took over the CAP over Washington. Before the day was over additional F-16's from Shaw AFB, SC and F-15's from Langley were in CAP over DC, New York and Atlanta. The California Air Guard was in CAP over L.A. and San Fran. The point is the response was too late, because of our alert stand down that had been evolving since the mid 1990's.
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42382 Sep 12, 2013
BTW....none...and I mean none of the initial aircraft that responded were armed. The F-15's from Otis were not armed nor were the F-16's from Langley or Andrews. It wasn't until much later when the 16's from Shaw and 15's from Langley got airborne that any aircraft were armed. This is fact.
TSF

Spring Hope, NC

#42383 Sep 12, 2013
American 11 departed Boston 7:59am, was reported hijacked8:41am, hit the North Tower at 8:46:40

United 175 departed Boston 8:14am, was reported hijacked 8:52am, hit South Tower at 9:03 am

American 77 departed Washington 8:20am, reported hijacked 8:54, hit the pentagon at 9:37:46

Unite 93 departed Newark 8:42am, was hijacked 9:28 am , went in at 10:02

NORAD was called at 9:03 am, 9:13am they ordered the OTIS Fighters OUT OF THE HOLDING PATTERN TO NY . They arrived at NY 9:25 am

Langley fighters were ordered to battle stations at 9:09am, 9:23 Langley scrambled and were airborne at 9:30 am and vectored to BALTIMORE

So Langly fighters took 21 minutes from battle stations to take off and left unarmed? OTIS fighters were unarmed? Why do we need unarmed fighters? Why not just take off in a J-3 cub and ride around? Wouldn't have mattered anyway. Fire oders didn't transmit until 10:14 am. The whole thing was over. Cheany and Dubya were safe. Next day, Bin Laden family jet was the only civil aircraft flying--- to get the Bin Ladens out of the USA. Who allowed that to happen?
Taxpayer

Point Harbor, NC

#42384 Sep 12, 2013
TSF wrote:
There is little difference between communist minded liberals and Kommunist minded republikans. The commie republikans want welfare for the rich. The dems want welfare for the poor. Either way, same result -- I pay. I am actually glad the republikans fell for the ruse and refuse to make a military strike. They hate Obama more than they love war. This way, our bankruptcy can be at least delayed without the borrowing of billions more dollars to help terrorist fight terrorist. That is unless Obama goes power mad like Dubya (the "war president" ) did and orders the military to strike anyway.
<quoted text>
Even though your communist US thinks they are in charge of humanity the reality is they are not. In your imaginary world the toothless media supports your spit ball shooting president. They actually think their words are supreme and final. Kerry and McCain keep dancing in a parade trying to influence a congress which is neither conservative nor moral but nevertheless war weary. The once drug addict now United Socialist leader cannot fight against Vladimir Putin who brought Russia from poverty in the 90's to a more stable economy today. Obama's buffoonery selling the war against Syria has hit a wall thanks to President Putin's firm stance and leadership. You people are nothing more then half a&& Communist want-to be's.

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42385 Sep 12, 2013
Everybody says"the American People want this","the American People want that", its beginning to seem, more and more, as though the only thing the American People want is drugs, internet , sex and free everything.
TSF

Spring Hope, NC

#42386 Sep 12, 2013
Those of you who continually support welfare to the rich are full fledged communist. Putin didn't stop the Syria strike, the republican congress did. When republikans were already threatening to stop paying the military personnel with government shut down.. if it isnt' important enough to even pay our troops, it is doubtful that they would be motivated in a strike. It is and has been clear republikans will not support a strike simply because Obama does support it.. Putin is just taking the credit, to make himself look like a peace maker. Obama put off the vote because he already knew the outcome. I am thankful for the strike being avoided, regardless of the reasons. It will save a lot of money and lives.
It is kind of embarrassing to have Putin's foot up the asses of congress and the president. This kind of illustrates a concept that Ben Franklin expressed: "We will hang together or we will most assuredly hang separately." Looks like it is starting to happen, figuratively anyway..
Taxpayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Even though your communist US thinks they are in charge of humanity the reality is they are not. In your imaginary world the toothless media supports your spit ball shooting president. They actually think their words are supreme and final. Kerry and McCain keep dancing in a parade trying to influence a congress which is neither conservative nor moral but nevertheless war weary. The once drug addict now United Socialist leader cannot fight against Vladimir Putin who brought Russia from poverty in the 90's to a more stable economy today. Obama's buffoonery selling the war against Syria has hit a wall thanks to President Putin's firm stance and leadership. You people are nothing more then half a&& Communist want-to be's.
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42387 Sep 12, 2013
TSF wrote:
American 11 departed Boston 7:59am, was reported hijacked8:41am, hit the North Tower at 8:46:40
United 175 departed Boston 8:14am, was reported hijacked 8:52am, hit South Tower at 9:03 am
American 77 departed Washington 8:20am, reported hijacked 8:54, hit the pentagon at 9:37:46
Unite 93 departed Newark 8:42am, was hijacked 9:28 am , went in at 10:02
NORAD was called at 9:03 am, 9:13am they ordered the OTIS Fighters OUT OF THE HOLDING PATTERN TO NY . They arrived at NY 9:25 am
Langley fighters were ordered to battle stations at 9:09am, 9:23 Langley scrambled and were airborne at 9:30 am and vectored to BALTIMORE
So Langly fighters took 21 minutes from battle stations to take off and left unarmed? OTIS fighters were unarmed? Why do we need unarmed fighters? Why not just take off in a J-3 cub and ride around? Wouldn't have mattered anyway. Fire oders didn't transmit until 10:14 am. The whole thing was over. Cheany and Dubya were safe. Next day, Bin Laden family jet was the only civil aircraft flying--- to get the Bin Ladens out of the USA. Who allowed that to happen?
Yep.The first fighters in the air and part of the second launch was unarmed. The first 2 Pilots from the 113th Fighter Wing of the D.C. Air Guard formed a plan to ram any aircraft if they had to do so. They were unarmed because as I said we had scaled down our Defense Alert drastically since 1995. Our air defense had been designed to intercept manned bombers and this was no longer seen as a threat. I was at Shaw AFB at the time. The 20th Fighter Wing got elements airborne over the next few hours as did almost all fighter units throughout the Air Force, Reserve and Air Guard. Naval Air even got in the action with F-14s from Oceana doing coastal patrol. Over the next several weeks Noble Eagle grew. We were over almost all major cities, powerplants and sea ports. Over time it scaled down due to threat reduction and costs. However, Noble Eagle is still in effect pretty much. When the threat level goes up so do the fighters. Also CAP operations are flown over sporting events and other venues that may have a large crowd. Just to add the first and only civilian aircraft allowed to fly for a few days was the Civil Air Patrol. They flew recon missions over New York and D.C. For those that don't know the Civil Air Patrol is the civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force.
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42388 Sep 12, 2013
I checked on the DC Air Guard pilots that formed a plan to ram flight 93 if they had to. They had been scrambled from Andrews as I said unarmed. The two pilots were Colonel Marc Sasseville and 1/Lt. Heather Penny. I think Colonel Sasseville may be retired now I am not sure. But the last I heard Penny is now a Major maybe a Lt. Colonel and flies a C-21 with the D.C. Air Guard.
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42389 Sep 13, 2013
Just learned this am that Sasseville is not retired yet. He is a Brigader General and now Commands the 113th Wing, D.C. Air Guard.
State of Denial

Mount Holly, NC

#42390 Sep 13, 2013
TSF wrote:
Those of you who continually support welfare to the rich are full fledged communist. Putin didn't stop the Syria strike, the republican congress did. When republikans were already threatening to stop paying the military personnel with government shut down.. if it isnt' important enough to even pay our troops, it is doubtful that they would be motivated in a strike. It is and has been clear republikans will not support a strike simply because Obama does support it.. Putin is just taking the credit, to make himself look like a peace maker. Obama put off the vote because he already knew the outcome. I am thankful for the strike being avoided, regardless of the reasons. It will save a lot of money and lives.
It is kind of embarrassing to have Putin's foot up the asses of congress and the president. This kind of illustrates a concept that Ben Franklin expressed: "We will hang together or we will most assuredly hang separately." Looks like it is starting to happen, figuratively anyway..
<quoted text>
It's a new conspiracy theory everyday with you.

How about thinking outside the box, but not crazy outside the box. You grouch if republicans don't support the president and you complain if they do. Stop the fence straddling.

Maybe the bozo in the white house and those in congress finally see the writing on the wall. This country is war weary. No conspiracy there. Obama isn't getting support from the democrats either. You must be the lone independent supporting the president and your reasoning is because the republicans didn't support him, thus it's just to make him look bad. He's managed to make a jackass out of himself without the help of either party.

His reasoning is as skewed as yours. He has cut back on military spending, bringing home troops (with no jobs might I add), and he wants to engage in another war? WTH?

You tell me if, does he make any sense? He can't even muster up allies from other countries because they know it's too costly and the end result will be as we're finding out with the other middle eastern countries, it won't matter. They always have and always will fight each other.

If you don't like war as you claim, what difference does it make which party won't support a needless war?

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42391 Sep 13, 2013
Obama tells his cabinet, don't worry about intentional issues, concentrate on domestic issues.For instance, health care.AFL-CIO has abandoned its support of the insane Obamacare plan.More and more people are finding that the cost of the health care premiums will be ruinous.

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42392 Sep 13, 2013
Also in the news, Californians have decided that the best way to save their shattered economy is to...raise the minimum wage to ten dollars an hour?? Rick Perry says,"Thanks" idiots! As more panicked California companies, already awash in regulations and overtaxed to boot, see Texas as the answer to their prayers...
TSF

Angier, NC

#42393 Sep 13, 2013
Watch even a great leader ,try to herd cats. Everyone today thinks they are in charge and refuse to follow anyone else. Result--what you see today.
I will point out for the umpteenth time that funding is controlled by CONGRESS. The military funding was cut by the sequester deal passed by CONGRESS.
Assad and Putin are understandably delighted at the republican intentions to defund our government and not even pay our military troops. It doesn't take a genius to understand the demoralization this brings to our military personnel and the crippling effect it has on readiness for anything. Republikans are willing to aid the enemy if it hurts Obama. The insanity of continuing a campaign against Obama is uniquely republican as evidenced by the juvenile voting 40 times to defund Obamacare . If Assad claimed he was a republican, the idiots would vote for him and help him with an invasion of the USA.
State of Denial wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a new conspiracy theory everyday with you.
How about thinking outside the box, but not crazy outside the box. You grouch if republicans don't support the president and you complain if they do. Stop the fence straddling.
Maybe the bozo in the white house and those in congress finally see the writing on the wall. This country is war weary. No conspiracy there. Obama isn't getting support from the democrats either. You must be the lone independent supporting the president and your reasoning is because the republicans didn't support him, thus it's just to make him look bad. He's managed to make a jackass out of himself without the help of either party.
His reasoning is as skewed as yours. He has cut back on military spending, bringing home troops (with no jobs might I add), and he wants to engage in another war? WTH?
You tell me if, does he make any sense? He can't even muster up allies from other countries because they know it's too costly and the end result will be as we're finding out with the other middle eastern countries, it won't matter. They always have and always will fight each other.
If you don't like war as you claim, what difference does it make which party won't support a needless war?
100 Missions

Clemmons, NC

#42394 Sep 13, 2013
TSF wrote:
Watch even a great leader ,try to herd cats. Everyone today thinks they are in charge and refuse to follow anyone else. Result--what you see today.
I will point out for the umpteenth time that funding is controlled by CONGRESS. The military funding was cut by the sequester deal passed by CONGRESS.
Assad and Putin are understandably delighted at the republican intentions to defund our government and not even pay our military troops. It doesn't take a genius to understand the demoralization this brings to our military personnel and the crippling effect it has on readiness for anything. Republikans are willing to aid the enemy if it hurts Obama. The insanity of continuing a campaign against Obama is uniquely republican as evidenced by the juvenile voting 40 times to defund Obamacare . If Assad claimed he was a republican, the idiots would vote for him and help him with an invasion of the USA.
<quoted text>
Well said. Today it is a matter of party not a matter of what is good for the country. Let's stall any forward movement to get our way. It is a joint effort or it should be to govern the nation. We have evolved into electing self centered mindless idiots to leads us. During the budget sequester we had active duty fighter squadrons grounded for 90 day increments. That means NO flying. I cannot recall the exact number but it was several squadrons around the Air Force. One is too many. Sacrifice training and readiness for politics. That is the way of today.

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42395 Sep 13, 2013
Who, oh who, initiated sequester? Whose idea could it have been? Better google, people.

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42396 Sep 13, 2013
100 Missions wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said. Today it is a matter of party not a matter of what is good for the country. Let's stall any forward movement to get our way. It is a joint effort or it should be to govern the nation. We have evolved into electing self centered mindless idiots to leads us. During the budget sequester we had active duty fighter squadrons grounded for 90 day increments. That means NO flying. I cannot recall the exact number but it was several squadrons around the Air Force. One is too many. Sacrifice training and readiness for politics. That is the way of today.
We've evolved into electing self-centered idiots? Could it be...WE ARE THE SELF CENTERED IDIOTS?
Dang

Lenoir, NC

#42397 Sep 13, 2013
President Obama’s no-Congress strategy "President Barack Obama is planning to bypass congressional Republicans with a surge of executive actions and orders on issues like voting rights, health care, job creation, the economy, climate change and immigration.

And this time, he really, really, really means it. Really. Obama’s started to sell his pitch to congressional Democrats, meeting with caucus groups at the White House and going to the Hill on Wednesday morning to speak with House and Senate Democrats.“I have to figure out what I can do outside of Congress through executive actions,” Obama told the Congressional Black Caucus earlier this month, according to Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.).

“He’s very ready to use his executive powers whenever possible,” said Rep. Judy Chu (D-Calif.) who heard Obama discuss the new approach at a meeting of the Congressional Asian Pacific Caucus to the White House last week.

With the clock running on Obama’s time in office — he’s even started marking the number of days left in public speeches — the president is done caring about congressional Republicans calling him a dictator. Or calling him at all." What makes anyone think the President will consult Congress? The only time he does is when he thinks it will make him look good or when he "chicken's out" and wants blame to fall away from himself.

“physics is your friend”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#42398 Sep 13, 2013
Dang wrote:
President Obama’s no-Congress strategy "President Barack Obama is planning to bypass congressional Republicans with a surge of executive actions and orders on issues like voting rights, health care, job creation, the economy, climate change and immigration.
And this time, he really, really, really means it. Really. Obama’s started to sell his pitch to congressional Democrats, meeting with caucus groups at the White House and going to the Hill on Wednesday morning to speak with House and Senate Democrats.“I have to figure out what I can do outside of Congress through executive actions,” Obama told the Congressional Black Caucus earlier this month, according to Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.).
“He’s very ready to use his executive powers whenever possible,” said Rep. Judy Chu (D-Calif.) who heard Obama discuss the new approach at a meeting of the Congressional Asian Pacific Caucus to the White House last week.
With the clock running on Obama’s time in office — he’s even started marking the number of days left in public speeches — the president is done caring about congressional Republicans calling him a dictator. Or calling him at all." What makes anyone think the President will consult Congress? The only time he does is when he thinks it will make him look good or when he "chicken's out" and wants blame to fall away from himself.
Obama will go around not only Congress when he doesn't get his way, but the Supreme Court Rest assured, what comes around, goes around.
TSF

Angier, NC

#42399 Sep 13, 2013
Yes, what governing body enacted sequester?
waco1909 wrote:
Who, oh who, initiated sequester? Whose idea could it have been? Better google, people.

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