The Primacy of Peter

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R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Morehead, KY

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#522
Jun 24, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
BULL CRAP Does Jesus tell you how or where to build a church? Does Jesus tell you what brand of grape juice to buy? Does Jesus tell you whether to be a Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian? Does He tell you what kind of Baptist to be? Does He tell you what kind of Methodist to be? Does He tell you what kind of Presbyterian to be? Does He tell you what kind of clothing to wear to church? Does He tell you to ordain women? Does He tell you if you don't like one church just go to another or better yet start your own?
There are currently two major issues in the Catholic Church in the USA from my perspective. One, the demand to return to pre-Vatican II liturgies has eased a bit with the spreading availabilty of the Extraordinary Form. Two, given that Catholic elected officials are forbidden to take public positions contrary to the Faith, several well known Democrats, Pelosi, Kerry and Biden among others support abortion even late term abortion with impunity. A few lesser issues do come to mind such as women serving at the altar, a no-no, and music selections not reflective of the liturgy itself.
Like I said you Catholics replaced Jesus with a man, that is obvious from your rant. Concerning your statement about the two major issues in the Catholic Church, this is a perfect example of the denial that is present within the Catholic church. Without a doubt, though blind you may be, the pedophile scandal is the most pressing issue for the church today and it has not been dealt with.

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#523
Jun 24, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Like I said you Catholics replaced Jesus with a man, that is obvious from your rant. Concerning your statement about the two major issues in the Catholic Church, this is a perfect example of the denial that is present within the Catholic church. Without a doubt, though blind you may be, the pedophile scandal is the most pressing issue for the church today and it has not been dealt with.
Sorry it has been dealt with...guess you were too busy spreading your stinking load of manure to have noticed. Perps are in prison and restitution has been paid with lots of it going for billable hours. What hasn't been dealt with is the same behavior happening everywhere adults and children interact. Last I heard it is in every single church and especially in schools and families. I also understand most pedophiles are heterosexual males and female family members are chief among the victims. I also have learned the abuse is no greater among Catholic clergy than any other denomination and may even be less. So why have we heard about Catholic cases and not so many others? Money, lawyers and media. Hardly a day goes by without an attack on the Catholic Church, the latest being from the President of the United States gleefully reported in major media outlets. Unknown to many is the fact that the US military has been ordered to look the other way and do nothing about the massive scale of adult male and boy sexual activity going on in Afghanistan among Muslims.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#524
Jun 24, 2013
 

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I found this while researching "watchman fellowship website.

Keep this definition in mind while reading.

The opposite of evangelical is not "catholic" or "liberal", but legalistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Cath...
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#525
Jun 25, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Like I said you Catholics replaced Jesus with a man, that is obvious from your rant. Concerning your statement about the two major issues in the Catholic Church, this is a perfect example of the denial that is present within the Catholic church. Without a doubt, though blind you may be, the pedophile scandal is the most pressing issue for the church today and it has not been dealt with.
The Church has dealt with the problem. They are in jail. Heterosexual fathers sexually abuse their children at twice the rate of all clergy, boy scout leaders, teachers, sunday school teachers.
Are you still a member of a family? if you are you support pedophilia.

We have sinners in this world.
Annoying Proxy

Paris, France

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#526
Sep 29, 2013
 

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It is terrible when the Catholics falsely claim Peter was the first Pope. They claim Jesus founded the church in Rome through Peter and Matthew chapter 16. In all honesty anyone can read chapter 16 for themselves regardless of what the Catholics say(it is better to ignore them) and you will not find Jesus saying Peter is Pope and Rome certainly was not the first church founded. While Jesus never called Peter Pope nor did Peter ever say he was Pope, Jesus did refer to Peter in chapter 16.


Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I don't know if this is the verse Catholics say is where Peter is made the first Pope by Jesus or not. They would have to be acknowledging what many have been saying for years if this is the verse, but the word Pope is not used here either. One thing is for sure the Catholic church cannot back up their teaching with scripture.
Annoying Proxy

Paris, France

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#527
Sep 29, 2013
 

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The church at Rome was already established when Paul arrived there as a prisoner (Acts 28:15-16) following his appeal to Caesar (Acts 25). No first- or second-century evidence supports the view that Peter founded the church in Rome or was its sole bishop.

Luke mentions Peter’s activities in many passages of Acts. If he knew that Peter had already visited Rome and founded the church there, he probably would have mentioned it. Paul’s epistle to the Romans doesn’t mention Peter (Romans 15:24), nor does he mention a connection between Peter and Rome in any of his other epistles. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Peter could not have arrived in Rome until after the completion of Acts and Paul’s epistles.

Although Peter was clearly a leading apostle, nothing in Acts or the New Testament epistles implies that he possessed a unique authority that his chosen successor would inherit. Nor is there any strong historical evidence about the last years of Peter’s life or about how he died.

Existing evidence implies that a single bishop never governed a unified Roman church until the mid-second century. Until then, the Roman church may have been comprised of several leading congregations, each with its own key leaders. References to Peter as “Bishop of Rome,” or to Jesus’ words in Matthew 16:17-19 conferring authority to Peter’s “successors” date from the third century or later. The title of pope (taken from the Greek word for “father”—pappas) had already been used in reference to eastern bishops, and was probably first applied to the Roman bishop in the fourth century.
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#528
Sep 29, 2013
 

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Annoying Proxy wrote:
The church at Rome was already established when Paul arrived there as a prisoner (Acts 28:15-16) following his appeal to Caesar (Acts 25). No first- or second-century evidence supports the view that Peter founded the church in Rome or was its sole bishop.
Luke mentions Peter’s activities in many passages of Acts. If he knew that Peter had already visited Rome and founded the church there, he probably would have mentioned it. Paul’s epistle to the Romans doesn’t mention Peter (Romans 15:24), nor does he mention a connection between Peter and Rome in any of his other epistles. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Peter could not have arrived in Rome until after the completion of Acts and Paul’s epistles.
Although Peter was clearly a leading apostle, nothing in Acts or the New Testament epistles implies that he possessed a unique authority that his chosen successor would inherit. Nor is there any strong historical evidence about the last years of Peter’s life or about how he died.
Existing evidence implies that a single bishop never governed a unified Roman church until the mid-second century. Until then, the Roman church may have been comprised of several leading congregations, each with its own key leaders. References to Peter as “Bishop of Rome,” or to Jesus’ words in Matthew 16:17-19 conferring authority to Peter’s “successors” date from the third century or later. The title of pope (taken from the Greek word for “father”—pappas) had already been used in reference to eastern bishops, and was probably first applied to the Roman bishop in the fourth century.
The Church began at Pentecost with Peter at is head. The Bible is clear on that.

Who cares when the name Pope was first used. It was always used by Italians when they called for their daddy.

The Pope, a.k.a Papa, Vicar of Christ, Vicar of Peter, Holy Father, Bishop of Rome, Servant of the servants of God, Supreme Pastor, His Holiness, The Rock, Supreme Pontiff, Father of Kings, Governor of the World, Successor of St. Peter, Shepherd of the Universal Church, etc.

Linus took over from Peter when he was crucified in the first century. History proves this.

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#529
Sep 29, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church began at Pentecost with Peter at is head. The Bible is clear on that.
Who cares when the name Pope was first used. It was always used by Italians when they called for their daddy.
The Pope, a.k.a Papa, Vicar of Christ, Vicar of Peter, Holy Father, Bishop of Rome, Servant of the servants of God, Supreme Pastor, His Holiness, The Rock, Supreme Pontiff, Father of Kings, Governor of the World, Successor of St. Peter, Shepherd of the Universal Church, etc.
Linus took over from Peter when he was crucified in the first century. History proves this.
Proxy's just pissed because defrocked prots don't get to wear cool stuff like Popes do.

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#530
Sep 29, 2013
 

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Have you noticed Proxy hasn't mentioned this:

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09/26/billy-...
Anonymous Proxy

Paris, France

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#531
Sep 29, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church began at Pentecost with Peter at is head. The Bible is clear on that.
Ever read that a new covenant came into effect at the death of the testator? Did Jesus die on Pentecost? Does the bible say the new covenant came into effect on Pentecost? Maybe Catholics are under a different covenant other than that of Jesus, perhaps Mary or the Pope.
Anonymous Proxy

Paris, France

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#532
Sep 29, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
Have you noticed Proxy hasn't mentioned this:
http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09/26/billy-...
Speculation on his part. Interesting thought since he was prosecutor, if all these crimes were going on and if he was actually aware of them why did he not prosecute. He was speculating.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#533
Sep 30, 2013
 

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Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Ever read that a new covenant came into effect at the death of the testator? Did Jesus die on Pentecost? Does the bible say the new covenant came into effect on Pentecost? Maybe Catholics are under a different covenant other than that of Jesus, perhaps Mary or the Pope.
Ever notice the analogy put together twists the facts? Paul used totally flawed logic and reason, and exhibited abject lack of understanding and belief in what God had done. To whom were the promises and covenant made - according to God and Moses? Paul alone used flawed logic to prove his points on the Law, the covenant, the gospel, why God made the promises to Abraham and established His covenant - let alone even quoting the verse about the covenant! The original Hebrew doesn't say at all what Paul has it saying - but Paul has polluted the faith in magnifying the errors of the Greek translation of the OT. This just shows how little Paul knew of the truth. Just as those of Asia did - we need to try what Paul taught according to the Scripture - accepted word of God - that came before his crap.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#534
Sep 30, 2013
 

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The modern day 'scribes'(translators and publishers) of the Holy Scripture continue in the error, but I think that checking the old Rabbinical teachings of the understanding of the verses Paul used will show a marked difference of meaning.

Abraham counted God faithful to have made him the promise, not God counted the faith of Abraham - a one time profession of faith - to be Abraham's righteousness.(Gen. 15:6) The more literal translation would be "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to Him as righteousness." (that God said of his own body he would have an heir, so that a servant would not be his heir - this verse isn't even about the Covenant God made with Abraham!!!)

So much for Zondervan and Nelson... Pauline to the core - just as the RCC.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#535
Sep 30, 2013
 

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Genesis 17 deals with the covenant - not just and heir or the land - but the covenant God will establish with Abraham and his descendants after him, and the covenant - starting with Abraham -17:1,2; 'walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.' This principle is again defined in its parameters in 26:2-5 when God is reaffirming the covenant with Jacob "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

Moses gave us these things, which Jesus said are true and necessary to believe God is faithful and true, and that we must abide in His revelation of the hope based on that same promise - that we are blessed through Him - who love God and show faithfulness in keeping His words from the Father.

It is about faith and works - the works He told us to do. The Law of God establishes the order and functions of the heavens and all the material world - and some teach God was a liar when they say that our works don't matter. Those who teach such things need to just blot the word 'works' out of Revelation and thereby curse themselves openly before man and God.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#536
Sep 30, 2013
 

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Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Speculation on his part. Interesting thought since he was prosecutor, if all these crimes were going on and if he was actually aware of them why did he not prosecute. He was speculating.
It is true. All you have to check is the insurance companies. The rates for protestant communities for this sort of thing are the same as the Church and slightly higher for those with large youth ministries.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#537
Sep 30, 2013
 

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" So much for Zondervan and Nelson... Pauline to the core - just as the RCC."

Very ignorant statement. The Church brings in the 4 Gospels during the opening procession lifted high and is placed on the Altar before it is read from.

All four point to the primacy of Peter. Nothing from Paul in there.

Paul did not write a Gospel.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#538
Sep 30, 2013
 

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Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Speculation on his part. Interesting thought since he was prosecutor, if all these crimes were going on and if he was actually aware of them why did he not prosecute. He was speculating.
He can't prosecute any where he wants to. No speculation. facts.

Biological fathers are the biggest abusers of children, their own. Right there, it proves you are wrong about celibacy. Prots just don't imagine the love of God over everything else.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#539
Sep 30, 2013
 
"Paul did not write a Gospel."

But he was given a gospel. He refers to it directly three times.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#540
Sep 30, 2013
 

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Here are the three references to the gospel given to Paul, from the Catholic bible:

Romans 2:16 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

25 Now to him that is able to establish you, according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret from eternity,

2 Timothy 2:8 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

8 Be mindful that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen again from the dead, of the seed of David, according to my gospel.

Raised from the dead, according to his gospel. It's interesting that Paul didn't just say that Jesus Christ was raised from the did. Everyone already seemed to know that.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#541
Sep 30, 2013
 

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* raised from the dead, not 'did'.

Dad-gum phone.

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