The Silence of Scripture

[Bobby]

Doesn't it make sense that if we are in Christ and Jesus is in God and the HS is in us that we are now made of the same stuff that God is made of. Out bodies are made from the dust of the earth, Our spirit is what was regenerated or made new. We are in the family of God, we have full privileges of the kingdom.

Our regeneration was a work of the Holy Spirit!

[HEATH]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
All of you on both teams will agree that the water itself does not actually save, you will say it brings you into contact with the saving blood of Christ. I no longer accept that because it still does not explain how the re-generation takes place.
It is not necessary for us to completely understand how God does that in order for salvation to take effect. This is a spiritual event and not a physical one. Until we can see that we will always be confused.
In the coc reform movement there has been lots of changes most toward a better relationship with our maker. The last domino to fall will be baptismal regeneration, it has already fallen in some of them. Randy Frazee was once a pastor in the bible churches, I know him well. He is now senior pastor with Max Lucado at Oak Hills church. I do have some insight into the movement. I highly suspect that many of the leaders are keeping the status quo in order to keep the friction down. It has been the basis for all the denomination has stood for, now over 200 years. I predict that many of you will see even more of a dramatic change there.
We can't keep studying the bible with open eyes and open hearts without questioning it sooner or later. When that happens heath and Johnny will be without anyone to argue with. There is the chance Jesus will return before that and if he does, I am ready. Come quickly Lord Jesus.

"senior pastor"???

Where's that position in the N.T.? Probably with the passages about the United Methodist church, right? lol!

www.roysecitycoc.org

[walkinginlove]

Hey shawn is being baptized for the dead a sin? Was it ever rebuked?

[HEATH]

"Our regeneration was a work of the Holy Spirit!" Bobby

AMEN!

And it happens in water baptism.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

-washing

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Beautiful Feet]

HEATH wrote:

"Our regeneration was a work of the Holy Spirit!" Bobby
AMEN!
And it happens in water baptism.
Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
-washing
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
www.roysecitycoc.org

That is right Shawn. We could also add (Col.2:12).

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1. Buried with him in baptism (notice man is not with Him until being buried (in water)

2. wherein also ye are risen (We rise out of the water)

3. through the faith of the operation of God (we believe and trust that God will remove our sins when we are obedient to the Lords commands. Note (Rom.6:16-18)&(Acts 22:16).

(Rom.6:16-18)

1. Decide who to serve

2. Obey that form of doctrine delivered you

3. Being THEN made free from sin.

This section of scripture clearly teaches that the alien sinner must obey that form of doctrine before he can be freed from sin. this opposes most denoms today. They do not want to discuss this at all.

searchingfortruth.org

[Bobby]

HEATH wrote:

"Our regeneration was a work of the Holy Spirit!" Bobby
AMEN!
And it happens in water baptism.
Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
-washing
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
www.roysecitycoc.org

Now what are you waiting for go kiss the bride. The wedding kiss comes after the wedding is preformed. Water baptism is the symbol, it is the way we experience physically what has already happened in the spirit.

You have the Holy Spirit coming after the water is applied when in fact He is the power that changes us. The Spirit of God deserves the Glory!

[walkinginlove]

HEATH wrote:

"Our regeneration was a work of the Holy Spirit!" Bobby
AMEN!
And it happens in water baptism.
Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
-washing
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
www.roysecitycoc.org

Nice binding of two unrelated passages but the first passage was purely about the Holy Spirits regeneration, not about water baptism!

Since you convert the Holy Spirit into water, is water your god?

[Bill]

By what means did he save? By the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit?

We observe from the very outset that human activity is explicitly denied in this passage. Certainly, if baptism were in view, we would see some reference to at least our obedience (if, perhaps someone wishes to separate obedience from an act of righteousness). There would at least be some reference to our activity.

There is not, however. The phrase translated above as,“not on the basis of deeds” is a negation of human works. To further separate the work of salvation from human effort, Paul uses a strong adversative (grk. alla). Thus, a strong contrast is given here. It is not on the basis of works (not just any works, but those done in righteousness) but it is on the basis of his mercy. Thus, God was not motivated to save because of a work of man, even those deeds that are righteous (of which baptism is certainly one), but because of his mercy.

[Bill]

Verse seven constitutes a clause of purpose/result. What this means is that in the mind of the author, the purpose of the main verb in the clause not only indicates the intention of the action, but also its sure accomplishment. The nature of the construction, even though the mood of the verb (a subjunctive) is called the verb of doubt, in the context of the purpose/result clause, there is no doubt in the mind of the author as to whether or not the action will be accomplished.

Therefore, we can conclude very easily that our regeneration and salvation is brought about as a work of God, and not in correspondence to our actions. The text simply will not allow it to be so. Further, since there is no effort, cooperation, or rituals of men in this context, then the responsibility of salvation and its sure completion therein, is based solely and completely on the work of God. His honor and integrity are placed on the line.

[HEATH]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
Now what are you waiting for go kiss the bride. The wedding kiss comes after the wedding is preformed. Water baptism is the symbol, it is the way we experience physically what has already happened in the spirit.
You have the Holy Spirit coming after the water is applied when in fact He is the power that changes us. The Spirit of God deserves the Glory!

"Water baptism is the symbol, it is the way we experience physically what has already happened in the spirit." 2 Opinions 4:15

That's why Bobby never gives passages on water baptism.

www.roysecitycoc.org

[HEATH]

"You have the Holy Spirit coming after the water is applied when in fact He is the power that changes us." Bobby

ACTS 2:38

"The Spirit of God deserves the Glory!" Bobby

John 16:13-14
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

-He will glorify Me

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bobby]

HEATH wrote:

"You have the Holy Spirit coming after the water is applied when in fact He is the power that changes us." Bobby
ACTS 2:38
"The Spirit of God deserves the Glory!" Bobby
John 16:13-14
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
-He will glorify Me
www.roysecitycoc.org

I can see you have a twisted view of the HS, he is God you know! Jesus also glorifies God but he Himself is worthy of Glory.

I wish you would believe the meat of the passage you posted, it is powerful. You only used a portion of it to deny my message, it's obvious you are still clueless. You are without the Spirit.

1 cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[HEATH]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
I can see you have a twisted view of the HS, he is God you know! Jesus also glorifies God but he Himself is worthy of Glory.
I wish you would believe the meat of the passage you posted, it is powerful. You only used a portion of it to deny my message, it's obvious you are still clueless. You are without the Spirit.
1 cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I quote a passage and I HAVE A TWISTED VIEW?????

www.roysecitycoc.org

[HEATH]

1 cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

AMEN!

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bobby]

HEATH wrote:

<quoted text>
I quote a passage and I HAVE A TWISTED VIEW?????
www.roysecitycoc.org

Yes you do, you do not even believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. With one side of your forked tongue you say you do. On the other side you lean toward denying the Holy Spirit indwelling all together leaning in favor of the written word living in you.

So, when you quote a passage, often times you do not believe it the way it is written, for you it takes on a different meaning. This is what I was addressing.

[HEATH]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes you do, you do not even believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. With one side of your forked tongue you say you do. On the other side you lean toward denying the Holy Spirit indwelling all together leaning in favor of the written word living in you.
So, when you quote a passage, often times you do not believe it the way it is written, for you it takes on a different meaning. This is what I was addressing.

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, you've lived in your wife dream world for sooooo long that you can't grasp reality.

The Word of God is in me.

The Holy Spirit is in me.

The Holy Spirit is in me because the Word of God is in me.

Two sides of the same coin.

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bobby]

HEATH wrote:

<quoted text>
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, you've lived in your wife dream world for sooooo long that you can't grasp reality.
The Word of God is in me.
The Holy Spirit is in me.
The Holy Spirit is in me because the Word of God is in me.
Two sides of the same coin.
www.roysecitycoc.org

Half truth spoken with a forked tongue. Let's hear you say that the person of the literal Holy Spirit dwells literally in your body and spirit with power to influence your thoughts, mind and actions.

[HEATH]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
Half truth spoken with a forked tongue. Let's hear you say that the person of the literal Holy Spirit dwells literally in your body and spirit with power to influence your thoughts, mind and actions.

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is IN YOU— unless, of course, you fail the test?

How is Christ in a person?

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bobby]

HEATH wrote:

<quoted text>
2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is IN YOU— unless, of course, you fail the test?
How is Christ in a person?
www.roysecitycoc.org

Here is the problem with you legalist, you have yet to separate the old man from the new man. Jesus was flesh and blood when he died, he was raised from death by the power of the Holy Spirit, to never die again. We died with him to never die again. This speaks of the new man (re-generated spirit).

John 17:22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Jesus says I in you (speaking of the Father) and you in me.

We are made of the same material that the Godhead is made of. Jesus is in us, not of the flesh but of the spirit.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.

[HEATH]

John 17:22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.

AMEN!

The Holy Spirit is in us, not of the flesh but of the spirit.

www.roysecitycoc.org