Church of Christ Legalism

[Bill]

When we speak of “legalism,” we don’t mean someone who insists on obedience to God’s commands. We insist on obedience to God’s commands. Rather, by “legalist” we mean someone guilty of the Galatian heresy — that is, insisting that we should add certain works to faith in Jesus as conditions for a Christian to remain saved.

Insisting on baptism is not legalism. Insisting on repentance is not legalism. Damning someone because they disagree with you over instrumental music or whether an elder may have only one child is the Galatian heresy and therefore is legalism.

When ultra conservatives state “faith is a work (John 6:29)” I think they miss the context of the passage. Jesus had just done an extraordinary miracle – fed 5,000+– and people followed Him to the other side of the lake to find out how they could do such “works of God.” His response is that this (singular) work of God was so that they would believe in the One He sent. In other words, the work testified about Him.

“They said therefore unto him,`What may we do that we may work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said to them,`This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.’” John 6:28-29, Young’s Literal Translation.

The work was God’s work. He did it through Jesus, His Son. Believing was not their work, but God’s. All of the actions that most conservatives mention are God’s work in/through us toward our salvation, not our works; they are what He does through us by our submission …“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.”

I’ve been involved with the conservative and the progressive churches — and I assure you that the progressives are vastly more of the “same mind and judgment” than the conservatives, who are constantly at war over issues such as elder re-affirmation and who can be on what editorial board or speak at what lectureship — and busy disfellowshipping other Churches of Christ. You see, once you understand grace — and understand it deep in your bones — then you indeed find yourself of “the same mind and same judgment.” It’s hard to understand it until you experience it.

Is faith a work? Not in Paul’s vocabulary, where “work” is short for “work of the law.” John 6:29 is an ironic sense of “work,” just like Paul’s use of “law” in –

(Rom 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

[Heath]

John 6:27
Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.

John 6:27
Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the Father, even God, has set His seal.
NASB

Labor/work for the food which endures to eternal life.

hhhmmmmmm

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bill]

This is not teaching one earn his way to heaven by good deeds.

Folks, what Shawn doesnt know is that I pulled those comments from their very own teachings. I will save that for another day. I love how he naturally thinks he has to disagree, even when I post things from their own preachers.

You always get the cart before the horse.

Try again.

[Heath]

Bill wrote:

This is not teaching one earn his way to heaven by good deeds.
Folks, what Shawn doesnt know is that I pulled those comments from their very own teachings. I will save that for another day. I love how he naturally thinks he has to disagree, even when I post things from their own preachers.
You always get the cart before the horse.
Try again.

"This is not teaching one earn his way to heaven by good deeds."

AMEN!

It teaches Philip. 2:12-13 and James 2:14-26.

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bill]

You mean we are on the sage page??!

AMEN!

It teaches Philip. 2:12-13 and James 2:14-26.

[Heath]

Bill wrote:

You mean we are on the sage page??!
AMEN!
It teaches Philip. 2:12-13 and James 2:14-26.

Then that makes you a legalist, right?

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bill]

I thought we went over this already. Legalism is when you add to Gods Word. When you make your assumptions and inferences "binding" that's legalism.

[Heath]

"21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26: And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it" (Matt 7: 21-27).

Notwithstanding the religious deeds of these considered people, Jesus said he will tell them to depart, those who worked "iniquity" (vs. 23). The Greek word for iniquity is anomia. Anomia means lawlessness or against law (a, negative, and nomos, law). These people, while religious, will have practiced antinomianism (what they did religiously, they did because it was simply something they wanted, while they rejected Jesus' teaching and authority in general (see Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, pg. 260). Jesus' illustration in verses 24-27 exemplify the rejection of law and commandments. Jesus also presents himself as authoritative and his words as the expression of this regal authority (cp. Matt. 28: 18, Acts 3: 22, 23).

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Heath]

Bill wrote:

I thought we went over this already. Legalism is when you add to Gods Word. When you make your assumptions and inferences "binding" that's legalism.

Polygamy is a sin today. TRUE or FALSE

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Bill]

Is holding two opposing doctrines as you do a sin??

[lee]

mr heath,
since john wont respond, at your earliest convenience please ask john to share with you the
lie he told about wanting to "make a fool out of brian edwards". two witnesses mind you........
will that stand up in your court?. it would in the bible.

[Bill]

I have no issue with post 8. You must be missing the direction of these threads. No one here is saying we are to practicing antinomianism. We are for obeying Gods Law.

Please post something on how Jesus viewed the Pharisees. And state clearly why He has issue with them, then we will be closer to being on the same page.

I may not be able to reply much, I have the flu or something. I will try though.

[Heath]

Bill wrote:

Is holding two opposing doctrines as you do a sin??

Let us see how well you understand the BINDING nature of the implication of Scripture.

Polygamy is a sin today. TRUE or FALSE

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Army of God]

When we speak of “legalism,” we don’t mean someone who insists on obedience to God’s commands. We insist on obedience to God’s commands. Rather, by “legalist” we mean someone guilty of the Galatian heresy — that is, insisting that we should add certain works to faith in Jesus as conditions for a Christian to remain saved.

Insisting on baptism is not legalism. Insisting on repentance is not legalism. Damning someone because they disagree with you over instrumental music or whether an elder may have only one child is the Galatian heresy and therefore is legalism.

When ultra conservatives state “faith is a work (John 6:29)” I think they miss the context of the passage. Jesus had just done an extraordinary miracle – fed 5,000+– and people followed Him to the other side of the lake to find out how they could do such “works of God.” His response is that this (singular) work of God was so that they would believe in the One He sent. In other words, the work testified about Him.

“They said therefore unto him,`What may we do that we may work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said to them,`This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.’” John 6:28-29, Young’s Literal Translation.

The work was God’s work. He did it through Jesus, His Son. Believing was not their work, but God’s. All of the actions that most conservatives mention are God’s work in/through us toward our salvation, not our works; they are what He does through us by our submission …“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.”

I’ve been involved with the conservative and the progressive churches — and I assure you that the progressives are vastly more of the “same mind and judgment” than the conservatives, who are constantly at war over issues such as elder re-affirmation and who can be on what editorial board or speak at what lectureship — and busy disfellowshipping other Churches of Christ. You see, once you understand grace — and understand it deep in your bones — then you indeed find yourself of “the same mind and same judgment.” It’s hard to understand it until you experience it.

Is faith a work? Not in Paul’s vocabulary, where “work” is short for “work of the law.” John 6:29 is an ironic sense of “work,” just like Paul’s use of “law” in –

(Rom 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

[lee]

mr heath,
since john wont respond, at your earliest convenience please ask john to share with you the
lie he told about wanting to "make a fool out of brian edwards". two witnesses mind you........
will that stand up in your court?. it would in the bible.

[Army of God]

Is holding two opposing doctrines as you do a sin??

[Army of God]

MONOGAMY: GOD’S DESIGN FROM CREATION: TRUE OR FALSE.

Bless your Heart Shawn Paden!

Folks, Shawn knows that there are many passages that proven Gods plan was MONOGAMY. This is about the weakest argument ever. Shawn I have some better ones for you, but in the meanwhile here is a riddle for you since you like joking around.

A Texas Cowboy rides in on Friday and leaves three days later on Friday. How?

[Heath]

Army of God wrote:

MONOGAMY: GOD’S DESIGN FROM CREATION: TRUE OR FALSE.
Bless your Heart Shawn Paden!
Folks, Shawn knows that there are many passages that proven Gods plan was MONOGAMY. This is about the weakest argument ever. Shawn I have some better ones for you, but in the meanwhile here is a riddle for you since you like joking around.
A Texas Cowboy rides in on Friday and leaves three days later on Friday. How?

Polygamy is a sin today. TRUE or FALSE

www.roysecitycoc.org

[Army of God]

MONOGAMY: GOD’S DESIGN FROM CREATION: TRUE OR FALSE.

Bless your Heart Shawn Paden!

Folks, Shawn knows that there are many passages that proven Gods plan was MONOGAMY. This is about the weakest argument ever. Shawn I have some better ones for you, but in the meanwhile here is a riddle for you since you like joking around.

A Texas Cowboy rides in on Friday and leaves three days later on Friday. How?

[Heath]

MONOGAMY: GOD’S DESIGN FROM CREATION: TRUE OR FALSE.

TRUE (Matt. 19:1-9)

Polygamy is a sin today. TRUE or FALSE

www.roysecitycoc.org