Pipeline boondoggle

Since: Mar 08

Colonial Beach, VA

#1 Mar 2, 2008
So, Governor Timothy Kaine wants to give Mecklenburg County $650,000 for a Osage Ethanol pipeline? So we heard ast Friday, February 29, 2008.

It will be a pipeline to nowhere, to serve an idea whose time has past. Ethanol as a motor fuel is being seen increasingly for what it is--- a wasteful, environmentally destructive, hugely expensive bailout for mostly rich corporate grain farmers and huge corporate interests. It is corporate welfare at its worst. We are already paying in agricultural aid some $284,000,000,000 per year--- thats Billion, with a "B" or about $1,000 for every man, woman and child in the U. S.--- rich or poor. That is already an indirect tax on food.

And it is already hurting the poor, driving up grain prices. Have you noticed meat has doubled in price just in the past few months? We can now afford electronic gadgets more than food? Try eating a CD.

And how about the money for Mecklenburg Schools--- the same governor Kaine has cut some $million and a half? I thought Richmond had a budget crisis?

Jobs? They will be short lived, and at huge costs. Why not just give several thousand dollars to each person who shows up to work--- let them go home and forget the whole thing? It would be cheaper.

And it wouldn't drain Buggs Island Lake-- already low and threatened by more development.

The idea of making alcohol fuel from vegetable matter is an old one. I knew of the organized effort at least 30 years ago. It does not work well. It costs more fuel in the process than it makes fuel at the end. It has to be heavily subsidized. That is tax money that has to come from health care, education, highways--- and ultimately your food budget.

David Keene's article below is seven months old, and it shows how the idea was known to be just plain dumb, back in July 2007. It is factual and well written.


Southport, NC

#2 Mar 2, 2008
eating is so over-rated....... i think as americans we could all stand to lose a few pounds

Since: Mar 08

Colonial Beach, VA

#3 Mar 3, 2008
Aha! someone with as sarcastic a sense of humor as mine! When all else fails, the ability to laugh at life is a pretty good resource.

Since: Aug 07

Chase City, Va

#4 Mar 3, 2008
What is proven is that we are at the mercy of OPEC. I wonder if the price of deisel fuel and gasoline engines has something to do with the rise in food prices? We know for sure that ethanol is definately NOT being used in farming equipment. So the rational that it's ethanols fault holds no water. Maybe I'm wrong but if gas goes to 4 dollars I think cheese will cost more as will milk,eggs,clothing, hell even toilet paper. Why? BECAUSE WE USE GASOLINE. It's a fact that cellulosic ethanol is not only renewable but also is better for the environment and will help the US stop being so dependant on OPEC. Within a matter of a few years farm equipment can be running on ethanol, thus making it even more cost effective. I know the die hard ethanol haters will never be convinced and that's OK. If they enjoy being tied to the Arabs more power to them. As for me, I'm for ethanol, cellulosic ethanol, biodeisel, wind, solar and hydroelectric exploration. We might never be completley rid of OPEC but one thing is for sure if we do nothing we'll stand still. I don't even have to follow the link "The Real Mike Smith" left, I'm sure it talks about the subsidies and all that same old same old. Just try looking at the subsidies "Big Oil" gets. Keep in mind that the subsidies on ethanol go to American companies and farmers while subsidies to "Big Oil" mostly goes out of country to foreigners. Keep the money in America for Americans!
Stephen D Hatcher jr

Vernon Hill, VA

#5 Mar 3, 2008
Mike smith you are right on corn ethanol. But we have to continue with corn to see where this Cellulosic ethanol will take us then we can decide for or against. It will not be much longer hopefully before uit will be ready for a produciton enviroment. It is realistic now but has to be able to be mass produced.Unless you have a better soulution? Try driving to work in a few more months when it is 4+ a gallon then tell me what we can do?
The Real Mike Smith

Kilmarnock, VA

#6 Mar 7, 2008
OPEC. The only 2 out of 112 members of OPEC in the Western Hemisphere are Venezuela and Ecuador. We get more oil from Canada than any other nation. Mexico is number 2. Only 15 percent come from the Near East-- OPEC members. So much for OPEC. We do have to import some 60percent of our oil only because liberals and earth worshipers control the American mind.

Only when most Americans finally realize they are being lied to by the institutions that liberals control, Pre-K through PhD, TV, print media, and the halls of Big Government, Big Corporation, and Big Foundation-- will we break the logjam that has preventing us from drilling in ANWAR, building new refineries (We haven't built one in over 30 years,)using more coal (which we have a 300 year supply of,) and going nuclear for electric power (France, of all places, gets 80% of her power from nuclear.) All these "alternatives" are, given current technology, a bunch of crap! To call me an "ethanol hater" is just plain wront! I love alcohol, in wine, in beer, in moonshine whiskey, a fine single malt scotch, and good ol' Virginia Gentlemen! I don't want it in my tank.

Alcohol has in it less energy than diesel oil or gasoline, it is much more costly to produce. A friend of mine was involved in early attempts to produce such "bio-fuel" and it was discredited way back in the 1970's. It is like other urban myths, like global warming--- that just won't go away.

Were it not for government money it would never get off the ground.

United States

#7 Mar 7, 2008
Mikr smith please see the following

Since: Aug 07

Chase City, Va

#8 Mar 7, 2008
To the best of my knowledge the last 8 years this country has been led by the conservative zealots. They have led both houses and the executive branch of government, The Supreme Court and the educational system.(No child left behind and SOL's) They have expelled almost all scientist of stature from any government agencies, have dismissed and deleted any referance to global warming from "official" government documents or reports, denied recession as a mere down turn, started a war to get access to an oil spigot only to have it blow up in their faces, caused worldwide panic that has the cost of crude to go over 105. Mr. Smith, you really need to quit reading the right wing propoganda rags like The Heritage Foundation and try reading real scientific journals who don't cater to one particular group. If you read crap by Dave Pamental and the like for your scource of ethanol informaton then you do yourself an injustice and just show a total lack of informed opinion. Not one soul believes ethanol is the end all solution, but rather a piece of the puzzle to help wean us from dependance on foreign oil.

Since: Aug 07

Chase City, Va

#9 Mar 7, 2008
During WWII, when crude oil was scarce, ethanol production in the US exceeded 600 MILLION gallons per year. After WWII the production fell because it was cheaper to use gasoline once it was in supply again. It's not like we don't know HOW to mass produce it, it's that we no longer have the refineries to mass produce at a "better than" competitive cost. With the successful acceleration of the cellulosice ethanol process there will be a 4 or 5 to 1 energy return, for UNDER 60 cents per gallon. Go back and read some real scientific studies, not just the anti-ethanol, pro-oil company stuff you've been reading. You really need to leave the 20th century behind and join the 21st.

As a foot note. Most all BP stations are now E10. When I fill up at a "regular" station I average 26.5 MPG. When I fill up with E10 I get an average of 24.8 but pay 10 to 12 cents per gallon less so it evens out, if not slightly more cost effective running E10.

Since: Aug 07

Norfolk, VA

#10 Mar 15, 2008
You can blame high fuel prices on the ever-rising cost of food and other goods.

Trucking companies, which tranport the good we buy, add a fuel surcharge to the loads they carry even when they don't raise their rates. It's not their fault because they can't afford to lose money on the freight they carry and I don't think anyone would expect them to. Their customers who are paying the surcharge and or higher rates naturally pass the added cost on to their customer who is receiving the freight. And guess what, that customer is passing along the cost to their customer who is purchasing the goods. The same applies to rail transportation because of not only fuel prices, but again trucks also play a part in that on each end.

Ethanol isn't cheap to make either, but keep in mind new technology springs from old technology so it is a positive step for the future. The fact that ethanol is made from renewable sources rather a limited source like gasoline makes it something with a future, whereas oil is a dead end down a very expensive highway.

United States

#11 Mar 15, 2008
pilgrims pride closed this week sending over 200 home with a pink slip.direct result of corn prices going up.....
foghorn leghorn

Winchester, VA

#12 Mar 16, 2008
i say,i say son whats a chicken going to do now?

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