Ten Commandments monument raises civi...

Ten Commandments monument raises civil liberty concerns in Wyoming County

There are 353 comments on the Charleston Gazette story from Jul 4, 2013, titled Ten Commandments monument raises civil liberty concerns in Wyoming County. In it, Charleston Gazette reports that:

A group of people did not seek permission before installing a monument of the Ten Commandments on the Wyoming County Courthouse lawn in Pineville this week, County Commission President Jason Mullins said, but he doesn't see a problem with it because it's meant to inspire others and isn't paid for with tax dollars.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Charleston Gazette.

sadsadsad

Pineville, WV

#23 Jul 14, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a minute - are you bitching about how bitchy we are?
Nope!! Not bitching, just stating a fact!! I have better things to do then bitch about yall bitching!!
Son

Pineville, WV

#24 Jul 16, 2013
I'm for it staying 100% but I also heard mike Goode is completely against it. so what's that tell us about him, Some county clerk. I can't believe of all people him. He's a joke
Ono

Pineville, WV

#25 Jul 16, 2013
Are you sure about Mike Goode? He doesn't seem like that. I've known Mike for years, I can't believe he would be against it.
Son

Pineville, WV

#26 Jul 16, 2013
U mus not know him well enough. It's true
Ono

Pineville, WV

#27 Jul 17, 2013
I'm 100% for it staying also. You might be right, I might not know him as well as I thought. Some people can put up pretty good fronts. It's a shame some people don't want it there! Its really not hurting anything or one by being there.
hahaha

Pineville, WV

#28 Jul 20, 2013
Nice, now we just need a statue of keith reed - a bible in one hand and money for the prostitute in the other.
nobody

Mooresville, NC

#29 Jul 20, 2013
James T Kirk wrote:
Since you obviously don't need any approval to put a monument on county property, can we take up a collection and put a statue of me on the courthouse lawn? Or better yet, can we just run down there and put a few junk cars on cinder blocks? You know, to commemorate the proud heritage and traditions of this area of the country!
Next thing you know, some right wing religious group will sneak a monument to fallen Klan members down there. Never forget that they claim the same right to practice their hate under the guise of religious freedom! How about one honoring all those great slaves who built this country. Heck, at this rate of regression, we may be able to get slavery legalized again!
That is a pretty big jump, from sticking up a statue of the 10 commandments to slavery. Not really sure what those two things have to do with one another. Also, are you aware that back in the early 1900's pretty much all of the KKK members during that time were Democrats? Including Robert C Byrd? If this area was as terrible and racist as you claim blacks in Charleston or Huntington would not even be able to walk down the street without fear of physical harm at the hands of whites. But if you, as a white man, walk down the street, that fear is real, and your chance at being the victim of violence at the hands of blacks is something like 90% greater than the other way around. Have you ever looked at the Department of Justice, headed by black man Eric Holder, interracial crime statistics? They paint a very different picture than the one you painted above.
Truth

Pineville, WV

#30 Jul 21, 2013
How dare the law of the land allow the standards of one religion sit on the lawn of justice!?("Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."- James Madison) Where should I, as a free man, derive my nobility from? Should I bow in total faith and reverence to the creed of one; facing oppression of their masses in positions of influence if I do not? Should I, as an American, be forced to live in fear of being ostracized from society if I do not bow down? Was America meant to be such a thing that is known as a theocracy? No, it is a republic dedicated founded with the dream of a nation free of tyranny and oppression of any kind.("Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."-Thomas Paine) Like it or not this nation was not founded as a “Christian Nation”; but a nation for all to find freedom from tyranny of any kind.(“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion- Treaty of Tripoli 1796”)

It is an Un-American thing to place one creed on that lawn without placing them all. Regardless of how insulting it is that few inside that building even try to follow those commandments in the first place. There is no war against “God” in America. This is the over exaggerated claim from the offended imaginations of those who want their religion to rule this nation. Them wanting to do that here is no different than Islamic Extremists thinking Sharia Law should be in place in every country they have a majority. Prayer was not removed from schools because we think it wrong to pray; it was removed because the far right tried to make it wrong to not pray or pray in a manner other than theirs. It is not God we fight against when we fight against such things; it is religious tyranny. Theocracy circumvents true freedom to think, pray, and live as you see fit. It inevitably, as history points out, leads to oppression or torture every time one way tries to usurp all others.

Every time we take a stand against religious tyranny or the theocratic mentality we do not wage war against God or religion. We keep the faith that free agency belongs to every human being to use as they see fit. To serve God without fear of persecution or to not serve him and live without fear of persecution. The subtle oppression of ostracizing others and giving people of one religion more preference in society over another did not die shortly after the inquisitions; but it cannot co-exist with freedom and equal rights. It is one or the other. This is not a war against God; but against tyranny and oppression in every form. I will gladly die to protect the free agency that even the bible promises by God; but Christians are afraid for anyone else but themselves to have.

It is as if they have no faith that when the bible says,“choose you this day whom ye will serve” actually means we do have a choice. Your God does not need your meddling with the freedom of another to win hearts and minds. If you are going to win people over for him; how about live an example worth following instead of trying to act on his behalf against sin. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. If he wants it done away with he has a rather large toolbox at his disposal to remodel with. Seek ye out your own salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord; and quit meddling in God’s work.

God isn't looking for robots programmed to serve him. But people who have tasted of dark and light and love light more than darkness. It takes freedom to discover that. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink; it will drink when thirsty. And you shouldn't get offended or refuse to work with that horse if they choose another bucket to drink from than yours.

It is arrogance and mental depravity to believe your truth is the right truth for everyone; as well as an outright lack of compassion or understanding.
Hahaha

Pineville, WV

#31 Jul 21, 2013
A-flappin-men truth haha

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#32 Jul 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
How dare the law of the land allow the standards of one religion sit on the lawn of justice!?
I think you figured it all right there - they dared to do it and they are daring you to un-do it.

The town Christians COULD have put their 10 Commandment monument on ANY private land and that would have been lovely and nice - Christians could visit it and pat each other on the back and nobody would have cared.

Nobody would have cared!

I truly believe that this is a message FROM the Christians TO the non-Christians. They put it on the courthouse lawn so EVERYONE would see it, especially those who wouldn't have seen it if it had been on the law of any church.

If SOMEONE - hopefully not an out-of-town organization like the ACLU - if a resident of this area is angered about this miscarriage of justice, that person needs to do what it takes to legally have the monument removed from the public property. Certainly a court case would either a) force the removal of the monument or b)allow monuments of ANY or ALL religions to be placed on the lawn. It would take time, money, and motivation to make all that happen. This is what our town Christians assume about this town's non-Christians: they are LAZY. Or maybe that's just a stereotype, you tell me.

I am an Atheist, but I am certainly not "the one" who is going to organize a movement to do all that. I think those 10 Commandments are ADORABLE and that the Christians responsible are riding out a win/win scenario.

Worst case: a court case ensues and they are forced to remove the monument. In the process of this happening, there will be TV cameras and newspaper interviews - it will become a topic of discussion - it will unite the Christians who are passionate about the Bible. The Christians have already successfully stirred up the debate and anyone who wants to rant about how the Constitution reins over the Bible will be the minority.

Here is another of my theories: there is a growing suspicion that the government and the economy will soon be falling all to pieces. Suppose we find ourselves in a state of lawlessness and anarchy. The Christians have provided a reference to the laws they intend to follow and placed it right in front of an institution that once controlled the behavior of the community. I've watched too many movies, haven't I?
terry

Oceana, WV

#33 Jul 21, 2013
nobody wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, are you aware that back in the early 1900's pretty much all of the KKK members during that time were Democrats? Including Robert C Byrd?
It’s time to clear the air about southern Democrats. Before the 1960s there were two factions of the democrat party in the south, they were the Bourbon Democrats and the populist Democrats. Bourbon Democrats represented the interests of the big landowners, the textile mills, investors, the privileged and the wealthy, and the southern branch of the Bourbons (called "Redeemers") encouraged interracial strife to keep wages down. Populist Democrats represented the interests of workers and the disadvantaged, and were receptive to social justice for minorities. When the civil rights movement came along the Bourbon Democrats switched parties and became republican. The south went from solid blue to solid red . The son's ,grandson's and great grandson's of the slave owners and KKK members are now in the republican party. Nixon's well-known “Southern strategy” of the 1960s successfully, and correctly, blamed civil rights legislation on Democrats. Nixon turned the south from blue to red and it has been red ever since.
terry

Oceana, WV

#34 Jul 21, 2013
Reagan once said "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me"...
The good ol boys in the south felt the same way about the civil rights legislation from the national democrats especially that old N..... loving L.B.J.as a lot of them called him They left the democratic party in droves and joined the republican party
terry

Oceana, WV

#35 Jul 21, 2013
Democrat Robert C Byrd didn't change political parties like the other Jim Crowers,he seen the ills of his way's and changed himself and became a “liberal” and was no longer a Bourbon. The son's of the Jim Crowers are now in the republican party
BooYah

Pineville, WV

#36 Jul 22, 2013
Blah, blah, blah! Let them eat cake!
Sane and Rational

Beckley, WV

#37 Jul 23, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
...They are telling these people that if they follow these rules, then they can cure THEMSELVES of drug addiction - since nobody else has been able to cure them of it...
I'm wondering which of the "rules" when followed will best help a drug user cure his problem. Tell me, please?
Truth

Pineville, WV

#38 Jul 23, 2013
Martin Luther, seen as the father of protestant tradition, went against the establishment of the Catholic Church as well as their doctrines. He discovered lies and couldn't be associated with them; others followed suit. In the end the Catholic church has went from being able to order a king off his throne to apologizing and kissing butt to try to maintain what they have; so they don't lose any more power. This was not won by fighting in the legal system. This was won by people seeking truth so much that they were willing to go against tradition to find it. In the dictionary these kind of people are defined as Liberal.

Without liberal people willing to do this we would all still be living under the Catholic Orthodoxy. We may think that if we drove too far we would fall of the edge of the planet, and chemistry would still be considered black magic and we would have never ended up with vaccines for things like polio or antibiotics. All sciences have their roots in things that were once thought to be "witchcraft" or "heresy". For this the Catholic church would have you tortured or killed. I thank God for the liberal minded people of the past. Liberal doesn't mean a gay man who hugs a tree and wants to put you out of work by definition; it is a seeker of truth willing deviate from tradition to find it.

We do not need to fight them on the courthouse lawn. The few that are willing to question tradition just need to keep doing so and publishing what science can prove. In the end the traditionalists of our time will be seen just as ignorant as those of the past and liberals will always be noted in history as revolutionaries. I for one would prefer to be on the side of truth; whatever that truth turns out to be even if it goes against my beliefs.

Modern technology is re-writing history. Things debunked even 50 years ago are being found as true today as well as things found true being found to be partially or totally incorrect. They did not have the science 50-100 years ago to do much more than make a best guess as to the validity of things. Today, we can tell you with more certainty more fact than the previous method of comparing what we find to what is already held as true.

I do not sit around hoping that Christianity ends up beside our academic studies of mythology when this dust settles within historical research. Nor do I think that will be the case; not entirely anyway. I do however believe that the evidence points to the fact that they will have to re-write their religion and re-do their tradition if it is to have any validity and appear as anything but a cult to the educated. This is nothing new; they keep having to revise their doctrines as society advances. I have bibles in my library from the past that do not have the same meanings as the ones from the present.

From an academic standpoint; the bible was put together by some very cruel people with some pretty extreme bias. You are taught to consider the source in college. I would not accept any book written by people with their history and not question at least some of it. If it was any other book, I would not want to sit on the same side of the table as the people who argue the validity of something with such questionable sources. They even destroyed sources they translated from; in any other subject we would rule you a fraud immediately for this act and charge you with the crime of destroying ancient artifacts. Christians should demand a rewrite by scholars instead of religious leaders and full access to all remaining artifacts available.

If you love God and truth you would spend time and money on this; not on having the current version displayed. You would seek truth and equality in the name of God rather than fight against it and not fear finding it. The sad thing is the majority of Christians do not even follow what they already believe as true. If it were followed, true or not, it is my estimation that the would would be a better place.
Truth

Pineville, WV

#39 Jul 23, 2013
"world would be a better place" not "would would"; my apologies for the typo and bad editing of my own work. Odd that I did that though; as educated as I am mistakes still happen. If you think mistakes haven't been made by those who translated the bible; then you have not studied it enough to argue for or against it.
rainny

Ona, WV

#40 Jul 23, 2013
What is the monument hurting anyone. Don't we all pay taxes don't we all have the right to see something that has what God has asked of us to do. Maybe this would help a drug addict or a down and out person who needs the comfort of what God has asked us to do even before birth. Christians all pray that this well change peoples lives and that it well stand tall. Who are we,re too judge who are we to say that this isn't what is needed as people . Leave this alone people for none of us goes by the law each day? God bless us all
Sane and Rational

Beckley, WV

#41 Jul 23, 2013
rainny wrote:
What is the monument hurting anyone. Don't we all pay taxes don't we all have the right to see something that has what God has asked of us to do. Maybe this would help a drug addict or a down and out person who needs the comfort of what God has asked us to do even before birth. Christians all pray that this well change peoples lives and that it well stand tall. Who are we,re too judge who are we to say that this isn't what is needed as people . Leave this alone people for none of us goes by the law each day? God bless us all
It's wrong because you small-minded, pompous Christians are doing the equivalent of symbolically planting your flag on public property and claiming it as conquered territory! Kindly explain how a drug addicted person might read your Ten Commandments and lose his affinity for abusing drugs. I don't get it!
Straight Up

Pineville, WV

#42 Jul 24, 2013
Sane and Rational wrote:
<quoted text>
It's wrong because you small-minded, pompous Christians are doing the equivalent of symbolically planting your flag on public property and claiming it as conquered territory! Kindly explain how a drug addicted person might read your Ten Commandments and lose his affinity for abusing drugs. I don't get it!
They won't; because they have a mental health issue and can't get a job because of that issue and medical care because of no job. They are trapped; and yet conservative Christians do not believe everyone deserves healing. This is in their minds when they look at that crap just as much as it is the times they went to church dirty and were asked to leave. It is also in their mind the times tracts got handed to them when they were trying, working a minimum wage job, and got handed a tract at work because the Christian thought they must not be serving God to be unblessed with that job. I am not BSing I have seen every single bit of this happen. Christianity lost its relevance when it became about self promotion and prosperity preaching instead of about loving one another and caring as much about your neighbor as yourself. It lost its relevance when pedophiles, fornicators, drunkards, and preachers who hire prostitutes occupied the pulpit instead of the alter and the church didn't have the back bone to demote them. I have seen more love and brotherhood at crackhouses of late than at churches; if they think they don't need to reform then Satan has sold them the greatest lie of all time. Thereby pulling the teeth right out of the church leaving them unable chew up a single demon.

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