George

Clendenin, WV

#43706 Mar 10, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
The oil companies are.
So 2 wrongs make a right, got ya. That seems to be your answer for anything criticism about Obama. Someone else did it so it is OK, your excuse for everything.
George

Clendenin, WV

#43707 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
What temperature? Air temperature is only one factor in climate. Oceanic temperatures and land temperatures also fluctuate wildly over short periods. That's why it's about long term climate. You can always find slivers of data cherry picked to illustrate a very small trend. But that certainly isn't benefiting any argument. You base your entire denial on 15 years of one data set out 500,000 years and three data sets. How do you explain the accelerated warming of the oceans over the past 15 years? What about the land? It's difficult to take your argument seriously if you limit your scope of acceptable data to only a fraction of what exists.
http://globalclimate.ucr.edu/resources.html
"There are slight differences in global records between groups at NCDC, NASA, and the University of East Anglia. Each group calculates global temperature year by year, using slightly different techniques. However, analyses from all three groups point to the decade between 1998 and 2008 as the hottest since 1850."
Thanks for that. "Hottest since 1850" you say? Well what made it so hot in 1850? Manmade global warming? What a shocker, the earth gets warmer and colder like it ALWAYS has.. And hmmmm, the earth and people survived just fine since 1850 when according to you, the temperature was just as hot as it is now. I know, shut up and hand over my money.
George

Clendenin, WV

#43708 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Life will always flourish. That doesn't mean one species will. Humans are just one species.
So people here in the US should go hungry and be poor just to help some African dung beetle survive? Species will evolve to changing temperatures or die off like they ALWAYS have.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43709 Mar 11, 2014
George, I think you're confusing pollution control (things like scrubbers on stacks at power plants) for climate change control. Pollution control is expensive and I pay the hell out of it on my electric bill (not as much as I do the thief coal companies who kill everyone and destroy my state though). There isn't much set aside for carbon control. They don't really do much of it. They try coal gasification and various techniques to purify and burn things cleaner, but there is no "carbon sequestration" you're paying for. That's why the GOP invented cap and trade - to try to keep the costs of an eventual carbon reduction effort spread thin across all industry. It isn't a tax and it isn't something you will "feel" when compared to basic factors like supply and demand.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43710 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>So 2 wrongs make a right, got ya. That seems to be your answer for anything criticism about Obama. Someone else did it so it is OK, your excuse for everything.
No. Solyndra wasn't OK. But to pretend you were burned by Solyndra is ridiculous when you gleefully hand your money to oil companies that make 40 billion A QUARTER.
George

Clendenin, WV

#43711 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
. You can always find slivers of data cherry picked to illustrate a very small trend. But that certainly isn't benefiting any argument. You base your entire denial on 15 years of one data set out 500,000 years and three data sets.
ANd how about a few million years? In the past hasnt the temperature been much warmer than it is now and life on earth flourished? Hasnt the temp been hotter even when the Co2 level was much lower? Hasnt the temp been much colder even when CO2 levels were much higher? Those are kinda important questions if you want people to believe you junk science.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43712 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>Already did, multiple times. I did using ADL's OWN factcheck link, that is why he threw a fit and ended the discussion.
No, you linked an article that discussed air temperature over a short time. What about sea temperature? Land temperature? The fact that 10 of the hottest years on record occurred during the last 12? The fact that there is always short period of flat air temperature followed by a climb, followed by a flat period, etc., etc? It's a cycle. That's why we don't measure climate in small intervals. That's weather.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43713 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>So people here in the US should go hungry and be poor just to help some African dung beetle survive? Species will evolve to changing temperatures or die off like they ALWAYS have.
Please explain how people are going hungry because of climate change.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43714 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for that. "Hottest since 1850" you say? Well what made it so hot in 1850? Manmade global warming? What a shocker, the earth gets warmer and colder like it ALWAYS has.. And hmmmm, the earth and people survived just fine since 1850 when according to you, the temperature was just as hot as it is now. I know, shut up and hand over my money.
\

One more time.

WHO ARE YOU HANDING YOUR MONEY TO?
George

Elkview, WV

#43715 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Solyndra wasn't OK. But to pretend you were burned by Solyndra is ridiculous when you gleefully hand your money to oil companies that make 40 billion A QUARTER.
I dont gleefully hand over my money, that is I guess you again making up my opinion for me. You are trying to justify one wrong by using another wrong as an example. My tax money shouldnt go for either.
George

Elkview, WV

#43716 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain how people are going hungry because of climate change.
If you will not admit that the entire global warming scheme is taking money away from people there is no point in continuing on this particular branch. Do you think regulating away coal and the like and forcing this carbon tax BS on everyone doesnt cost people money?
George

Charleston, WV

#43717 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you linked an article that discussed air temperature over a short time. What about sea temperature? Land temperature? The fact that 10 of the hottest years on record occurred during the last 12? The fact that there is always short period of flat air temperature followed by a climb, followed by a flat period, etc., etc? It's a cycle. That's why we don't measure climate in small intervals. That's weather.
Hottest years on record? And those records would go back how far? Talk about cherry picking. We arent near the hottest temperatures on record. You are saying that the current temperatures are the hottest the planet has ever been? Ever? That is BS, temps have been hotter then they are now even when the Co2 level were lower. Same goes the temps have been colder when the CO2 levels were much higher.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43718 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>Species will evolve to changing temperatures or die off like they ALWAYS have.
Agreed. The problem is that pesky "ecosystem" thing where one thing depends on the other and the other and so on. If we pick on the wrong one - like if we manage to somehow kill 40 percent of the plankton in the ocean overnight (not really possible, but bear with me), we likely wouldn't be around much longer. Life would still exist. But not many humans.

We definitely don't want to finish wiping out the bees. Turns out we cost ourselves $15 billion in crops last year because we're doing something to make the bees leave. Maybe it isn't us (it's probably us). Either way, the bees make pretty much all the food we eat that isn't a grain or a protein. And they're pissed about something and told us to go f_ck ourselves. Turns out that if they ALL disappear, most of us will starve.

Screwing with nature doesn't usually work out for us. Screwing with one of nature's keystone species will kill us. There is little doubt about that. We don't know those tipping points either. But we know they exist.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43719 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>Hottest years on record? And those records would go back how far? Talk about cherry picking. We arent near the hottest temperatures on record. You are saying that the current temperatures are the hottest the planet has ever been? Ever? That is BS, temps have been hotter then they are now even when the Co2 level were lower. Same goes the temps have been colder when the CO2 levels were much higher.
No George, hottest global average temperatures on record. Not hottest temperatures ever attained.

Stop being an idiot.
George

Charleston, WV

#43720 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you linked an article that discussed air temperature over a short time. What about sea temperature? Land temperature? The fact that 10 of the hottest years on record occurred during the last 12? The fact that there is always short period of flat air temperature followed by a climb, followed by a flat period, etc., etc? It's a cycle. That's why we don't measure climate in small intervals. That's weather.
The temperatures over that "short time", 16 years, totally contradict the "theories" the scientists you promote predicted. That is the point of that fact. The fact the planet hasnt warmed despite continued CO2 emission is usd to debunk your so called scientist and their computer models/predictions/theories. Not show the planet isnt warmer now than it was 30 years ago, but by your own admission the temps were this hot in 1850 and we didnt have coal plants and cars cranking out CO2 then, and yet we were still HOT. That supports the fact that the planet has warmed and cooled all on its own for millions of years and guess what, we are still here.
George

Charleston, WV

#43721 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
No George, hottest global average temperatures on record. Not hottest temperatures ever attained.
Stop being an idiot.
And that record going back how far? So what is hottest "on record" supposed to prove if you only go back to "on record". Answer is Nothing, but you use it to try and imply something that just isnt there. So define what you claim of "on record" is? Seems 500,000 years is what you like to use because that fits with your agenda, but why 500,000 and not 2 million, or 10 million, or 20,000? Talk about cherry picking to make a false implication.
George

Charleston, WV

#43722 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
No George, hottest global average temperatures on record. Not hottest temperatures ever attained.
Stop being an idiot.
And so if since temperatures on earth have been hotter than they are now and life flourished, what is the problem??????? When temperatures on earth were cooler is when we had serious problems, not when it was warmer.
George

Charleston, WV

#43723 Mar 11, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. The problem is that pesky "ecosystem" thing where one thing depends on the other and the other and so on. If we pick on the wrong one - like if we manage to somehow kill 40 percent of the plankton in the ocean overnight (not really possible, but bear with me), we likely wouldn't be around much longer. Life would still exist. But not many humans.
We definitely don't want to finish wiping out the bees. Turns out we cost ourselves $15 billion in crops last year because we're doing something to make the bees leave. Maybe it isn't us (it's probably us). Either way, the bees make pretty much all the food we eat that isn't a grain or a protein. And they're pissed about something and told us to go f_ck ourselves. Turns out that if they ALL disappear, most of us will starve.
Screwing with nature doesn't usually work out for us. Screwing with one of nature's keystone species will kill us. There is little doubt about that. We don't know those tipping points either. But we know they exist.
I dont disagree with what you just said. WE should do what what is reasonable and sensible to protect the environment. Causing great economic harm to millions of people based on flawed predictions is not reasonable or sensible to me. Taking people money with no evidence it will make ANY real difference is not reasonable to me.
George

Charleston, WV

#43724 Mar 11, 2014
And I thank you for actually being pretty civil tonight and having a fairly decent discussion. I appreciate it. I gotta hit the hay, way past my bedtime, this daylight saving BS has gotta end. Goodnight.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#43725 Mar 11, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>The temperatures over that "short time", 16 years, totally contradict the "theories" the scientists you promote predicted. That is the point of that fact. The fact the planet hasnt warmed despite continued CO2 emission is usd to debunk your so called scientist and their computer models/predictions/theories. Not show the planet isnt warmer now than it was 30 years ago, but by your own admission the temps were this hot in 1850 and we didnt have coal plants and cars cranking out CO2 then, and yet we were still HOT. That supports the fact that the planet has warmed and cooled all on its own for millions of years and guess what, we are still here.
No George. It was hot in 1850. One year. The CLIMATE is warmer now. We may have a cold year here and a warm year there, but that's WEATHER.

Your entire problem is that you truly do not grasp the difference between climate and weather.

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