Christians, please help me.

Christians, please help me.

Posted in the Charleston Forum

schrodinger

Huntington, WV

#1 Jun 24, 2013
How can you believe the bible? The gospels weren't even written by people around during christs life. The bible was put together by a group of men that got to pick and choose what went in and what texts were left out. They chose based on what they wanted it to say based on cultural and political influences. The texts that didn't match up were left out. Also there are parts of the bible, especially the old testament that glorify rape, murder and slavery.I haven't even began to explain all the problems I faced when trying to believe the bible so please explain to me how you can overlook so much?

Belief is not a choice, you are compelled to believe something because of evidence or personal experience. I truly can not help but see things the way I do. I have been searching for the truth for a long time and have done exhaustive research to try to find some type of faith but I can not. Please explain how you can overlook just the few things ive mentioned above. That is not even a scatch on the surface of all the problems Ive found with the bible.please help me to understand.
Burning Bush

Martinsburg, WV

#2 Jun 24, 2013
schrodinger

I too have many questions, and I mean many, but at the top of the list is if God knows all and if God knows what you're going to do before you even do it, then when he created Lucifer and he knew Lucifer would do as he did and create sin which in turns sends men to hell. Why did he let Lucifer do that? If he did, then would it not be true that God also created sin?
faith

Alkol, WV

#3 Jun 24, 2013
I too have many questions and am the type of person that likes to understand why something is the way it is. However one thing I've learned is that to understand the Bible you must first have faith that it exists.
schrodinger

Huntington, WV

#4 Jun 24, 2013
faith wrote:
I too have many questions and am the type of person that likes to understand why something is the way it is. However one thing I've learned is that to understand the Bible you must first have faith that it exists.
The problem is not the understanding of the bible its the problems with the way it was made and the untruths and even immortality of it. I believe its entirely possible that there is a God but I don't think he is in the bible and I don't understand how anyone could think that has ever taken the time to research its history and truly looked at it objectivly. Like I said before belief is not a choice, Im compelled to believe something, I can not choose to believe something just because I wish it to be or someone else wishes it. I suppose you can delude yourself or look away from the truth but still that is not true belief. So how does one find faith in something that you can not believe?
Jay

Charleston, WV

#5 Jun 24, 2013
schrodinger wrote:
How can you believe the bible? The gospels weren't even written by people around during christs life. The bible was put together by a group of men that got to pick and choose what went in and what texts were left out. They chose based on what they wanted it to say based on cultural and political influences. The texts that didn't match up were left out. Also there are parts of the bible, especially the old testament that glorify rape, murder and slavery.I haven't even began to explain all the problems I faced when trying to believe the bible so please explain to me how you can overlook so much?

Belief is not a choice, you are compelled to believe something because of evidence or personal experience. I truly can not help but see things the way I do. I have been searching for the truth for a long time and have done exhaustive research to try to find some type of faith but I can not. Please explain how you can overlook just the few things ive mentioned above. That is not even a scatch on the surface of all the problems Ive found with the bible.please help me to understand.
Why not just peruse through some of the available literature on the subject?

Their is plenty that covers both sides of the debate and any of it is more informed then what you'd find here.

If your looking for a good starting point from a christian converts perspective that also lists secondary literature for continued study you might try "the case for Christ."

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#6 Jun 24, 2013
schrodinger wrote:
How can you believe the bible? The gospels weren't even written by people around during christs life. The bible was put together by a group of men that got to pick and choose what went in and what texts were left out. They chose based on what they wanted it to say based on cultural and political influences. The texts that didn't match up were left out. Also there are parts of the bible, especially the old testament that glorify rape, murder and slavery.I haven't even began to explain all the problems I faced when trying to believe the bible so please explain to me how you can overlook so much?
Belief is not a choice, you are compelled to believe something because of evidence or personal experience. I truly can not help but see things the way I do. I have been searching for the truth for a long time and have done exhaustive research to try to find some type of faith but I can not. Please explain how you can overlook just the few things ive mentioned above. That is not even a scatch on the surface of all the problems Ive found with the bible.please help me to understand.
I to have the same concerns.
The Council of Nicaea (who put together
what we now know as the bible) picked and
choose what they wanted.
They used these texts to "put women in their
place."
And it worked for more than 2000 yrs.
bobby nuts

Danville, WV

#7 Jun 24, 2013
arctic wrote:
<quoted text>
I to have the same concerns.
The Council of Nicaea (who put together
what we now know as the bible) picked and
choose what they wanted.
They used these texts to "put women in their
place."
And it worked for more than 2000 yrs.
not just womem but ppl who might offend authority. it is too hard for me to overlook all the inconsistencies and contradictions. the more i learned about the king james bible and how it was written and the books they kept outta of it, the harder it was for me to believe. it just looks like a way for the elite to control ppl
schrodinger

Huntington, WV

#8 Jun 24, 2013
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not just peruse through some of the available literature on the subject?
Their is plenty that covers both sides of the debate and any of it is more informed then what you'd find here.
If your looking for a good starting point from a christian converts perspective that also lists secondary literature for continued study you might try "the case for Christ."
Thank you, but. I find that sometimes the most intriguing arguments come from unexpected places. Im always searching for something that I may have missed or looked at wrong. I am very open minded and am only searching for answers.
Truth

Chesapeake, VA

#9 Jun 24, 2013
Unlike you all, I have no problem believing the Bible and believing that it is Gods word. You see I have faith just as the people who wrote the books of the bible. God was the author of those holy books that those holy men believed to be the inspired words of God. It takes faith to believe in something that you can't see, and those fourty ment God used to write His words, well, it's your choice to believe or not to believe! I Choose to believe by faith... God bless
schrodinger

Huntington, WV

#10 Jun 24, 2013
Truth wrote:
Unlike you all, I have no problem believing the Bible and believing that it is Gods word. You see I have faith just as the people who wrote the books of the bible. God was the author of those holy books that those holy men believed to be the inspired words of God. It takes faith to believe in something that you can't see, and those fourty ment God used to write His words, well, it's your choice to believe or not to believe! I Choose to believe by faith... God bless
Thank you for your honest answer but for me belief is not a choice, im compelled to believe by evidence or personal experience. If I thought it would do any good id SAY I believed just in case I was wrong but I don't see how that would do any good because in reality I don't and cant believe.I respect and even envy your faith but I don't undrestand it. The more I research the more I realize that for me at least the bible can not be the word of God.
Jay

Charleston, WV

#11 Jun 24, 2013
schrodinger wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you, but. I find that sometimes the most intriguing arguments come from unexpected places. Im always searching for something that I may have missed or looked at wrong. I am very open minded and am only searching for answers.
I come from a non Practicing "Christian" family I've only been to church a handful of times in my life and the message of "eternal bliss" never resonated with me compared with logic and reason.

Recently though I've decided to undertake my own religious studies curriculum, while I try to lean as much about all of them I pay special attention to Christianity as I feel it is the one most relevant to us as Americans.

For now I'm making my way through the bible, reading through the catechism, listening to YouTube sermons (being careful to note the differences between the opinions of various pastors) it's a mistake after all to lump "Christians" together as their beliefs can vary substantially.

One argument of yours I feel I can comment on is the old testament, atheists wonder how Christians can follow it. In my study I've found that christians primarily follow the new testament feeling that it's tennents largely superseid the old covenant.

Hence Christians need not follow obscure old testament Jewish dietary laws, circumcision, or old testament death penalties for work on the sabbath and so fourth.

The old testament is kept because refers to the Christian god, is thought by christians to prophicied the birth of jesus, and contain inspiration in the form of psalms and proverbs, etc.
1 post removed

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#13 Jun 25, 2013
bobby nuts wrote:
<quoted text> not just womem but ppl who might offend authority. it is too hard for me to overlook all the inconsistencies and contradictions. the more i learned about the king james bible and how it was written and the books they kept outta of it, the harder it was for me to believe. it just looks like a way for the elite to control ppl
You're right.

Not just women. Homosexuals, anyone who
didn't fit into the "box" they created.
schrodinger

Huntington, WV

#14 Jun 25, 2013
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
I come from a non Practicing "Christian" family I've only been to church a handful of times in my life and the message of "eternal bliss" never resonated with me compared with logic and reason.
Recently though I've decided to undertake my own religious studies curriculum, while I try to lean as much about all of them I pay special attention to Christianity as I feel it is the one most relevant to us as Americans.
For now I'm making my way through the bible, reading through the catechism, listening to YouTube sermons (being careful to note the differences between the opinions of various pastors) it's a mistake after all to lump "Christians" together as their beliefs can vary substantially.
One argument of yours I feel I can comment on is the old testament, atheists wonder how Christians can follow it. In my study I've found that christians primarily follow the new testament feeling that it's tennents largely superseid the old covenant.
Hence Christians need not follow obscure old testament Jewish dietary laws, circumcision, or old testament death penalties for work on the sabbath and so fourth.
The old testament is kept because refers to the Christian god, is thought by christians to prophicied the birth of jesus, and contain inspiration in the form of psalms and proverbs, etc.
Thank you for your responce.I realize that some Christians look at the old testament that way, that is one of the many problems I have with Christianity. Its like saying the same God is now a completely different type of God and he was wrong before. It makes mo sense and is contradictory. At the same time they will say he is and always has been and is a never changing constant. The difference in the character of Christ and the God of the old testament is marked and very substansial. I could go on and about it but let me brief and just say that with so many problems and inconsistencies with the bible and considering the time and way it was put together isn't it possible or even probable that the God of the bible is a false God?
Jay

Charleston, WV

#15 Jun 25, 2013
schrodinger wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you for your responce.I realize that some Christians look at the old testament that way, that is one of the many problems I have with Christianity. Its like saying the same God is now a completely different type of God and he was wrong before. It makes mo sense and is contradictory. At the same time they will say he is and always has been and is a never changing constant. The difference in the character of Christ and the God of the old testament is marked and very substansial. I could go on and about it but let me brief and just say that with so many problems and inconsistencies with the bible and considering the time and way it was put together isn't it possible or even probable that the God of the bible is a false God?
As an agnostic I lean towards the idea that their probably is no god but also that I as a human can't possibly know everything and as such I refrain from stating matter of factly that their is no god.

On faith: I believe some folks have the capacity for it and others simply don't. If in fact you don't have the capacity For faith no arguments will sway you.

On the validity of christianity: the majority opinion of historians is that Christ did in fact exist.

His message was strong enough to cause thousands of Jews to forgo time honored beliefs and practices in order to become christians.(consider that Jews have been enslaved numerous times throughout history by peoples and civilizations which no longer exist and yet the fact that Jews still do is a testament to how strongly they hold to their traditions therefore anything that caused devout Jews to change must have been big.

Christs early followers were willing to suffer extreme cruelty, persecution, and execution (Peter was crucified upside down) rather then recant their claim that Jesus had arisen and that he was humanities savior.

Is it really likely they were willing to be tortured and to be put to death purely to uphold some lie designed to put down women and homosexuals?

Still though non of us were witness to these events and as such must either accept them largely on faith or reject them.

As for me I seem to be stuck in the middle I'm no longer the militant atheist I was as a youth but I'm not religious either.

Wherever my research takes me it's been a fascinating journey.

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