Thursday's Letters to the Editor

Re "Measure T is trailing" : Remember getting on the big yellow bus, brown sack lunch in hand, the excitement you felt rolling down the freeway destined for a place that will help your class lessons come alive? La Brea Tar Pits, L.A. Natural History Museum, The Getty Museum, Gene Autry Museum, L.A. Science Center, Rancho Los Cerritos - places that ...

[Ignorance Is Bliss]

It's not that this country needs a "democratic" or "republican" victory...we need to elect people who prove to be worthy by the fruits of their labor, not the party they belong to. We need common sense to be victorious.

Come 2010 and 2112, maybe people will look further beyond Palin, Romney, Clinton and Obama...

Maybe we will look to people like Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Cynthia McKinney...people who have been calling out the lies and corruption of both parties for years and have been laughed at, even though they continue to be spot on.

Maybe we won't be duped again by whoever the media throws in our faces. It's time to take this country back!!!

Ron Paul in 2012

[Tom]

Jay obviously didn't play attention to the election. The reublican candidate loss in New York.

Also, if Jay was trying to criticize the Press-Telegram coverage of the elections, Jay needs to learn proximity.

The parcel tax proposition was more important than who became governor of Virginia.

[Lewis]

Ref: Measure T consequences

Connie - how come you didn't mention anything regarding the obvious? The obvious is the inept spending practices the LBUSD has done for years.

It's all too typical with your ilk. Predicating your stance on fear and emotions meant to influence the youth.

Sounds as though you are a huge Karl Rove fan.

[Dave Whitten]

Those folks crying crocadile tears over the failure of the school tax issue need to channel their anger where the real problem is. Those same folks have voted Democrats into power in Sacramento for decades and they are the ones stealing school money for their pet projects and to balance the State Budget.

[LB Native 59]

I get so tired of reading parents letters who have children in the LBUSD schools whine and complain, there is no money for field trips, no money for classrooms, no money for this and that and so on.My kids went to private school and we had to sacrifice sometimes to pay tuition.When they went on a field trip we paid for it, usually less than $10.I, or my children never attended school camp, parents take your own kids camping, it's more fun.I see these parents driving with cell phones in their fancy suv's. So quit your whining.You're not getting my tax money to send your kid to camp.

[Justwondering]

Dave Whitten wrote:

Those folks crying crocadile tears over the failure of the school tax issue need to channel their anger where the real problem is. Those same folks have voted Democrats into power in Sacramento for decades and they are the ones stealing school money for their pet projects and to balance the State Budget.

Justwondering Dave but, is Arnold a Democrat? We seemed to have a balanced budget year after year until Arnold got into office. Doesn't he have veto power over the state legislature? Why is it only the Dems are at fault? Republicans "claim" to be the party of personal responsibility, yet ALWAYS blame someone else for their failings.

[Dominic Dougherty]

Regarding Mr. Bedinfield's comments on the conviction of Dr. Thompson:
The posted speed limit on the road was 35 mph. This is not the minimum speed one must travel, but rather, the maximum - it is a speed LIMIT. GPS data from the cyclists showed them going 28mph just before the assault. You don't go crashing into school buses and delivery trucks, do you?

Riding two abreast is one of the safer ways for bicyclists to travel on narrow roads and is perfectly legal - Mr. Peterson probably knew this due to the bicycle training you cited. If the road is "too narrow" as you claim for bicyclists to be doing this, then it is most certainly too narrow for a car to pass safely.

No matter the perceived inconvenience slower drivers may cause you, please remember that they are all mothers, daughters, fathers and sons and deserve the respect of a continued life.

[brainofjello]

Dominic Dougherty wrote:

Regarding Mr. Bedinfield's comments on the conviction of Dr. Thompson:
The posted speed limit on the road was 35 mph. This is not the minimum speed one must travel, but rather, the maximum - it is a speed LIMIT. GPS data from the cyclists showed them going 28mph just before the assault. You don't go crashing into school buses and delivery trucks, do you?
Riding two abreast is one of the safer ways for bicyclists to travel on narrow roads and is perfectly legal - Mr. Peterson probably knew this due to the bicycle training you cited. If the road is "too narrow" as you claim for bicyclists to be doing this, then it is most certainly too narrow for a car to pass safely.
No matter the perceived inconvenience slower drivers may cause you, please remember that they are all mothers, daughters, fathers and sons and deserve the respect of a continued life.

The bike idiots should have got in single file and let the car pass. I am so sick of bike riders that think they do not have to get of the way of cars going faster.

[Dominic Dougherty]

Bicyclists DON'T have to get out of the way of cars - that's the whole point. Bicyclists are (by law) considered drivers and have the same rights as drivers of a buses, Miatas, motorcycles, Expeditions or FedEx trucks. Drivers of bigger vehicles do not have more rights than drivers of smaller ones. Traffic law is not survival of the fittest.

I would urge all drivers (of cars, trucks or bicycles) to please review the Ca Vehicle Code, or please attend a Bicycle Safety course provided through LB Parks & Rec. Topics covered include legal and safe roadway positioning of cyclists, traffic and hand signals, principles of right-of-way and left and right turn problems.

[Jayme Bassett]

Just to make it a little clearer for those who aren't educated on the laws that already exist.

21202.(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.

Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.

I'm sorry that you're so sick of bike riders already Jello. You might want to get used to them though as I'm sure they'll be far more common in the near future. You might want to hop on one, you seem a little stressed out, too.

[brainofjello]

Jayme Bassett wrote:

Just to make it a little clearer for those who aren't educated on the laws that already exist.
21202.(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

So according to the law they bike riders should have been riding as close as possible to the right curb, since they were riding at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic. No where in the law does it say that bike riders can ride next to each other. So bike riders need to ride single file, near the right curb, when ever they are riding at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic. My previous post stands!!

[37th District Voter]

Justwondering wrote:

<quoted text>Justwondering Dave but, is Arnold a Democrat? We seemed to have a balanced budget year after year until Arnold got into office. Doesn't he have veto power over the state legislature? Why is it only the Dems are at fault? Republicans "claim" to be the party of personal responsibility, yet ALWAYS blame someone else for their failings.

Juswondering--- the Dems have been balancing the budget by BORROWING and accounting gimmicks just like the Republicans. Arnold is terrible, but he is no worse than his predecessor, Grey Davis.

[Dominic Dougherty]

brainofjello wrote:

<quoted text>
So according to the law they bike riders should have been riding as close as possible to the right curb, since they were riding at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic. No where in the law does it say that bike riders can ride next to each other. So bike riders need to ride single file, near the right curb, when ever they are riding at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic. My previous post stands!!

Nope. The law doesn't say POSSIBLE, it says PRACTICABLE.
prac&#8901;ti&#8901;ca &#8901;ble
–adjective
1. capable of being done, effected, or put into practice, with the available means; feasible
You're right, no where in the CVC does it say that cyclists can ride two-abreast. Nor does it say you're allowed to eat while driving. So you better stop that.

[Dominic Dougherty]

CVC 21200 requires that cyclists follow the rest of the vehicle codes because they have the same rights and responsibilities as other drivers.
Because of this they must follow CVC 21650 (drive on the right half of the roadway), and CVC 21654 which requires that slower drivers “use the right hand lane for traffic or drive as far right as practicable to the curb or edge”. Which in turn means that any slower drivers, motorist, motorcyclist or bicyclists are required to use the right hand lane, with no intra- lane positioning restrictions, and only drive as close as practicable to the curb or edge when no marked (painted lane stripes) lanes (and therefore no right hand lane) are present. Thus slower drivers may use the marked right hand lane any way they see fit, and slower motorcyclists may ride two abreast if they so choose.
Unfortunately bicyclists and no other drivers are subject to a discriminatory law, CVC21202, which forces a further restriction on slower cyclists. Read the full text of 21202(a) above.
This law has 4 exceptions, the last two being the most important for through travel. When any one of the exceptions applies, CVC 21202(a) does not apply at all. So a slower cyclist is only beholden to CVC21654 when any of the above four exceptions applies.
Exception (a)(3) applies to lanes that are not wide enough to share side-by-side with a vehicle. In other states like Texas,“substandard width” is explicitly called out in traffic law as lanes less then 14 feet wide. In CA a typical line width is 12 feet wide, and is not wide enough for safe side by side lane sharing. The upshot of (a)(3) is that most lanes, particularly those in urban areas, which are often 11’ wide or narrower, are not side by side shareable, so cyclists only need follow 21654, and can ride legally anywhere they want in the right hand lane, including two abreast riding. This has important practical implications across most urban areas in CA.
Now lets look at exception (a)(4) which applies when a cyclist is approaching driveways and intersections (places where right turns are authorized). In these situations cyclists are also bound only by 21654. The reason for this is to allow cyclists to get away from the edge of the road to avoid being right hooked by motorists and to avoid left cross turns and intersection/driveway pullouts by motorists. So in residential or commercial areas with frequent driveways and intersections, a cyclist is essentially always approaching a place where a right turn is authorized, so even if the lane are wide, the cyclists doesn’t have to ride near the curb, and two cyclists can ride side by side.
What we can conclude from these last two exceptions may come as a surprise, but in general, through cycling downtown areas with narrow lanes, and commercial areas with frequent driveways are NOT governed by 21202, only 21654. THUS TWO ABREAST CYCLING IS LEGAL. Even more interesting is the fact that most residential areas, cyclists are similarly exempt from 21202 because of a driveway every 50 feet, so cyclists are not obligated to ride near the edge in these areas either, and can therefore also ride two abreast.

[Jayme Bassett]

Oh Jello,

Do you not know how to read, either? Practicable and possible are completely DIFFERENT.

prac&#8901;ti&#8901;ca &#8901;ble&#8194;& #8194;/&#712;prækt&#61 8;k&#601;b&#601;l/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prak-ti-kuh-buhl] Show IPA
Use practicable in a Sentence
See web results for practicable
See images of practicable
–adjective 1. capable of being done, effected, or put into practice, with the available means; feasible: a practicable solution.

pos&#8901;si&#8901;ble &#8194;&#8194;/&#7 12;p&#594;s&#601;b &#601;l/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pos-uh-buhl] Show IPA
Use possible in a Sentence
See web results for possible
See images of possible
–adjective 1. that may or can be, exist, happen, be done, be used, etc.: a disease with no possible cure.
2. that may be true or may be the case, as something concerning which one has no knowledge to the contrary: It is possible that he has already gone.

I don't believe your previous post stands anymore. It is completely legal to ride two abreast as well.

You should get out of your car and read more.

[brainofjello]

Each bike rider must ride as close practicable when going slower then traffic. If they are riding two-abreast, only one of the riders is riding as close as practicable to the right curb. The other bike rider is not riding as close practicable to the right curb. My post stands!!! BOTH RIDERS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RIDING AS CLOSE AS PRACTICABLE TO THE RIGHT CURB, WHICN MEANS IN SINGLE FILE!!!!!

[Raphael]

I think Dan Bedingfield needs to learn to express his anger in ways that are less homicidal.

[rollen montoya]

mr guzman's assessment of the C-17 being a dinosaur is very wrong. as a U.S.ARMY veteran
and a 23 year structure mechanic at mccdonnell douglas/boeing i have seen the wonderful things this airplane can do. from humanitarian aid, transporting our men and women to and from the fight in afganistan and iraq, transporting keiko the killer whale, and bringing home our countries fallen heros. this airplane is not only needed by our warfighters but it is requested
by the warfighters to get them to the fight and get them the supplies needed. the C-17
transports our wounded home, and it has the highest reliability rate of any transport in the
air force arsenal . so before bashing the C-17 as a dinosaur please have the facts and
figures right before you comment. and we are the UAW 148 not IAW.

rollen montoya
C-17 mechanic
apple valley ca