Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,556

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Genius

Dayton, OH

#24358 Apr 21, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
http://webapp1.ode.state.oh.us/proficiency_re...
The children in Dayton Public Schools are being cheated to an even larger degree than our own.
1023 kids took the same OAA Math test in the Dayton Public Schools, 9 scored 74% or better.
9
You cannot tell me that the other 1014 children are just stupid.
You cannot tell me that the teachers in the Dayton Public School system are that incompetent, they are, after all, amongst the highest paid in the area.
You cannot tell me that the parents of 1014 all could care less.
You cannot tell me that just because someone comes from a poor background they cannot learn.
In the state of Florida a recent census of schools and where children attended revealed that 43% of the states 1.5 million school age children attended schools that were not the neighborhood public school. Recent school choice voucher programs have accounted for roughly 10% of that 43%
The point of the matter is that they system we are playing with is a union rigged game for the benefit of the union, not the children or society at large. When given choice people abandon the public school systems to pursue better options for their children.
When one looks at the numbers that are being produced by that school system it is small wonder.
We cannot, and must not, allow our school's system to become the GM of government programs. As anyone who has resided in Dayton for any amount of time, the number of lost union jobs in the past 10 years has been staggering. Many former union members who once enjoyed jobs that paid $18-$35/hour are working for fractions of that amount today.
Most of those jobs were automobile oriented. But the jobs did not simply disappear, consumers voted with their wallets what they would accept and what they would not. The consumer voted and those automotive jobs went to the non union manufacturers.
In the state of Florida the exodus has begun, let us strive to keep Ohio from following suit.
Still waiting for answer why 20% would be "sterling" for Dayton children? Remember "sterling" was what YOU said.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24359 Apr 21, 2013
Genius, it would be a 22 fold increase in achievement from where they are now.

9 kids out of 1023 scored a grade better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math. That means they had 9/10 of 1% score better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math.

A 22 fold increase would mean that another 195 kids got the education their taxpayers were funding.

Now Genius, what do we do with a failing system that is not providing the education the taxpayers are funding in the city of Springboro?

In Dayton, we have virtually no say in how they operate.

In Springboro, we do have a voice that can cry out for us to deliver an actual education to the 2000 plus children who are now not receiving the one the taxpayers have funded.

We can and should demand better of a system that pays our teachers $30-$66/hour. The results we saw in 2012 are not uncommon.

2012 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2011 79% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2010 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test

This is a systemic problem that cheats all children regardless of race, creed, color, or place of national origin.

Ms. Cook has seen these results repeated during her tenure as Principal at the Junior HIgh, how long can we tolerate this lack of actual learning and leadership?

Here we have three straight years of documented failure of 4 out of 5 children in Math. Go back to 2008 and you will see the same level of achievement.

http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages...

Would you have us believe all of these children are not very bright in Math, our teachers are incompetent, our parents do not care, our children are not good test takers, or the test is too hard,?

The truth is the Emperor has no clothes.

The system and methods we are using now do not work. If they did, the children would pass the test with real scores that reflect actual learning.

These test are not MIT tough entrance exams, they are pretty basic and elemental. They even let you use calculators and give you the formulas you need.

What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting different results each time.

Our system is insane and we cannot waste another year of our children's education on repeating the same program.
In the money

Springboro, OH

#24360 Apr 22, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Really you do not know how to go about doing this. Go get a teaching certificate and start applying for a job. Apparently based on your comments you must have a GED or HS. So looks like four plus years of college for you. See you in four years or so. But just remember you still need to get hired.
Do you know of anyone that goes to college for 4 years and comes out making $60 per hour? I know of no one but a teacher. That is why we have so many applicants for teaching positions. Good money great schedule and the have a family life that private sector employees don't get. Retirement unmatched by any other system, benefits unmatched in the private sector.
facts get in the way

Springboro, OH

#24361 Apr 22, 2013
Springboro Forum wrote:
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?
They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.
So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
WOW you need to check your facts. You have stated things here that are totally untrue. "is getting $40K more than the last guy" totally wrong. The last guy got pick-up for 10,000 a year that last guy got $105,000,so it may be simple math but just to start the comparison 105 + 10= 115, this guy gets $130,000. Now look at all the other parts of the contract. This new guy actually works.
Compromise

Springboro, OH

#24362 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
No sir you are failing our children. You and your politician wannabes are not allowing the great parents and teachers to educate the children of Springboro. You clearly have a political agenda to destroy the SEA. You clearly have no idea the difference between percentile and percentage. You won't answer a question when somebody asks you to do so. You stated that Math hasn't changed in 75 years, you're right, 2+2=4, what's changed is the political wannabes you associate with who want absolute power and hate unions because they donate to democratic campaigns. If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected. This country has no clue what compromise means anymore because of both parties. Until we regain the ability to compromise nothing will ever get accomplished, and the children and society as a whole will suffer.
Oh we all know what "compromise" means to you. We are all well aware who this is and why you use the words "Compromise", because it suits you. You wish to make all of us sympathetic to your cause knowing full well that this so called "compromise" is useful to those that buy it as a kinder, way of letting your freedoms go out the window. Your compromise means, "Let me step on your rights, kill your freedom, take your children, in the nicest way possible of course and you won't feel anything because I have made you to feel good about it. Does anyone else picture the joker now?

Your compromise is hitting deaf ears now that we woke up. Guess what buddy, how about you "compromise" now? Now, Hand us your children, your freedom, your liberty, ya know in the name of compromise.

You can take your compromise and _____ it.

Ask Ed Wade and Mayor Agenbroad about how this works, they never net a tax hike they did not like. Ya know, in the name of compromise and all.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24363 Apr 22, 2013
facts get in the way wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW you need to check your facts. You have stated things here that are totally untrue. "is getting $40K more than the last guy" totally wrong. The last guy got pick-up for 10,000 a year that last guy got $105,000,so it may be simple math but just to start the comparison 105 + 10= 115, this guy gets $130,000. Now look at all the other parts of the contract. This new guy actually works.
You need to define your terms for the rest of us who are not well versed in union lingo.

For instance, what is pick-up?

Otherwise it may as well be written in greek.
Compromise

Cleveland, OH

#24364 Apr 22, 2013
In the money wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know of anyone that goes to college for 4 years and comes out making $60 per hour? I know of no one but a teacher. That is why we have so many applicants for teaching positions. Good money great schedule and the have a family life that private sector employees don't get. Retirement unmatched by any other system, benefits unmatched in the private sector.
Please show me where a teacher makes 60 dollars right out of college? You are crazy, 34,000 dollars a year for a starting salary in Springboro does not equate to 60,000 a year. Way to spread more lies buddy!!!! You truly have no clue do you?
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#24365 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
Please show me where a teacher makes 60 dollars right out of college? You are crazy, 34,000 dollars a year for a starting salary in Springboro does not equate to 60,000 a year. Way to spread more lies buddy!!!! You truly have no clue do you?
I would like to see the math on this also!
Compromise

Cleveland, OH

#24366 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
Please show me where a teacher makes 60 dollars right out of college? You are crazy, 34,000 dollars a year for a starting salary in Springboro does not equate to 60,000 a year. Way to spread more lies buddy!!!! You truly have no clue do you?
Meant to say 60 an hour not 60,000 a year. Sorry
Buckeye Taxpayers

Piqua, OH

#24367 Apr 22, 2013
In the money wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know of anyone that goes to college for 4 years and comes out making $60 per hour? I know of no one but a teacher. That is why we have so many applicants for teaching positions. Good money great schedule and the have a family life that private sector employees don't get. Retirement unmatched by any other system, benefits unmatched in the private sector.
Taxpayers can never get a break from the heavy burden of forced unionism upon Ohioans, based on the only choice that exists is for government union workers to accept across the board compensation package reductions. Compensation packages cuts are quite familiar in the private sector. Why should government be immune from these actions when times are tough? Shouldn't this "compromise" be part of the discussion in contract negotiations? Taxpayers cnnot keep up with the unsustainable pace of cost increases of government union workers high cost of compensation packages set forth in outdated collective bargaining laws which are breaking the backs of private sector workers/taxpayers.
Compromise

Cleveland, OH

#24369 Apr 22, 2013
Buckeye Taxpayers wrote:
<quoted text>
Taxpayers can never get a break from the heavy burden of forced unionism upon Ohioans, based on the only choice that exists is for government union workers to accept across the board compensation package reductions. Compensation packages cuts are quite familiar in the private sector. Why should government be immune from these actions when times are tough? Shouldn't this "compromise" be part of the discussion in contract negotiations? Taxpayers cnnot keep up with the unsustainable pace of cost increases of government union workers high cost of compensation packages set forth in outdated collective bargaining laws which are breaking the backs of private sector workers/taxpayers.
So private sector employers are the only ones who pay taxes huh? Government employees are not immunned to these cuts. Pay freezes and pay reductions happen there too.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24370 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
So private sector employers are the only ones who pay taxes huh? Government employees are not immunned to these cuts. Pay freezes and pay reductions happen there too.
Tell us again who is underpaid working 2/3 a normal full time schedule.

The $30/hour fresh out of college teacher?

The $44/hour 10 year vet?

The $55/hour veteran looking to retirement after 25 years?

The $67/hour long time veteran?

Sometimes your pay increases out run your productivity to the program.
Anonymous

Middletown, OH

#24371 Apr 22, 2013
since when do you care about productivity???? Do you even have a clue as to how to run a business?? Come on "Just Watching" get with the program
Anonymous

Middletown, OH

#24372 Apr 22, 2013
Could someone tell me who this "just watching" person is? Seems to me instead of spending all his time on the computer since he is so smart he should be on the school board or maybe even the administrative staff.
Buckeye Taxpayers

Piqua, OH

#24373 Apr 22, 2013
They want how much wrote:
270 teachers x $2000 average raise would be $540,000. That is a 5% raise and more than most I know are getting. And not everybody deserves a raise. And getting paid that much more to do your job you are doing now is a joke. If you don't like it move over real workers will be more than happy to take it and work here. And $30,$50, or $60 an hour looks pretty good to me. Where do I sign up for indoctrination?
Taxpayers never get a break!
According to some reports submitted to the ODOE in October 2010, Ohio's school districts projected an aggregate deficit in 2015 of $7.6 billion with 96 percent of all tax revenue going to compensation package costs. Compensation package costs in some school districts substantially exceeded 100 percent of all tax revenue. If school districts would have instituted an across-the-board 10 percent compensation package reduction in 2010 and limited future growth to 3.2 percent (Ohio's historical inflation rate) the $7.6 billion deficit would become a nearly $1 billion surplus and would have avoided nearly $8 billion in property tax increases.

Taxpayers cannot keep up with the unstainable pace of cost increases in Ohio. Per pupil expenditures increased from $7,178
in 2000 to $10,128 in 2010, a 41.1 percent increase.

As costs have gone up significantly, the educational outcomes in Ohio have made little progress as measured by results on the National Assessment of Education Progress. In August 2011 The Blade reported that: Results of ACT college-admission tests suggest that nearly three-quarters of Ohio high school graduates aren't completely prepared for college. Test results released showed that only 28 percent of test-takers in the Class of 2011 at Ohio public and private high schools met college readiness standard in English, reading, math and science.

With the mediocre results achieved over the last decade despite the large jumps in expenditures and teacher compensation, TAXPAYERS deserve a break from the ever-increasing tax burden and the emotional blackmail. Enough is Enough! Without fundamental government compensation package reforms, they won't get that break!
Interesting article

Springboro, OH

#24374 Apr 22, 2013
Interesting

Springboro, OH

#24375 Apr 22, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to define your terms for the rest of us who are not well versed in union lingo.
For instance, what is pick-up?
Otherwise it may as well be written in greek.
Well, it totally depends on who you are talking to. If you are a taxpayer you would be told it is a pay "freeze", you know not a raise, however the truth is it is a raise that was added at 2% per year to finally get to a 10% level, although hidden in the pay check and not in the salary. This is just like some districts give a car allowance, a cell phone allowance and a annuity, all th9ings that are benefits yet not known by the public.

You don't like school speak? I have a lot more where that came from. Have you ever heard of steps, not step raises but just steps that don't count as a raise. If you say it like that "steps" it does not count if you call it what it really is step raises then everyone wold know what you are talking about. So
shhhhhh.
Interesting

Springboro, OH

#24376 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
Please show me where a teacher makes 60 dollars right out of college? You are crazy, 34,000 dollars a year for a starting salary in Springboro does not equate to 60,000 a year. Way to spread more lies buddy!!!! You truly have no clue do you?
OK lets use your math. It appears to be $25 plus benefits. What do you think the total is? Maybe it is not $60 for a starter but it sure is for the average salary in many districts. BTW why did you leave CA? Marketing strategy not paying off?
Interesting

Springboro, OH

#24377 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
So private sector employers are the only ones who pay taxes huh? Government employees are not immunned to these cuts. Pay freezes and pay reductions happen there too.
Gimme one. Who has gotten a pay cut in Govt? Just one! I can show you most of Springboro that has done their jobs with less pay and benefits in the last 5 years
Compromise

Columbus, OH

#24378 Apr 22, 2013
Interesting article wrote:
An you don't think that BOEs have the same mentality towards the teachers of their respective districts? What the State needs to do is get off their you know what's and fix the way public schools are funded in the state of Ohio. Put as much effort into getting them to change this policy as you do attacking the teachers and researching people talking about your friends on the Internet and see if something happens.

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