Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,562

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Ridiculous

Yellow Springs, OH

#22875 Jan 6, 2013
Just wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Just wondering if there's another reason folks like Miller, Babb, Carlisle, Schrof and Bowman have such an issue with the development of a charter school.
Could it be that Miller, Babb, Carlisle, Schrof and Bowman are either individually or collectively on edge because a new Springboro charter school might raise the bar of expectations beyond the teaching capacity of many of our current SEA teachers?
I wondered if it was because they do not want the school board to look good because then their favorites might not get elected?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22876 Jan 6, 2013
Hiring Lobbyists wrote:
These are the “OBJECTIVE,”“EDUCATION” professionals we need in Springboro to STUDY our schools? REALLY?
These are “the best tools available in assessing whether a conversion community school aligns with your mission and vision.” REALLY?
These are lawyers from Columbus and Cleveland and are SELF IDENTIFIED lobbyists for charter schools; we’re paying for them to study SPRINGBORO schools and make recommendations on the need for ……? What problem are we trying to solve?
Springboro need to spend $5000 on this? Below is the proposal on which we base a $5000 investment? Say it isn’t true?
1. Financial Model and Feasibility
Build an actual financial model using the district and the state’s current funding
allocations showing real revenues and expenditures for projected enrollments. This model and feasibility study will serve as the foundation for the rest of the project.
Doesn’t the Springboro BOE know what our projected revenues, expenditures and enrollments are? Talk about wasting taxpayer $!!!!
Who would you suggest, the teachers union do the study?

Believe it or not there are people and organizations that actually specialize in certain areas. Some are doctors and lawyers, others are carpenters and electricians, etc. etc. etc. These people, generally speaking, have a narrower focus on certain skills that allows them to develop more expertise than others with a broader view. Society benefits greatly from this arrangement in that it allows each of us the freedom to do more in a host of areas while simultaneously providing resources we may draw from when needed.
Just wondering

Germantown, OH

#22877 Jan 6, 2013
Ridiculous wrote:
<quoted text>
I wondered if it was because they do not want the school board to look good because then their favorites might not get elected?
Personal agendas would not take precedent IF all parties were to keep their eyes focused on the objective - the betterment of educations for... ALL... of our children.
Reality Bytes

Piqua, OH

#22878 Jan 6, 2013
It isn't surprising that this same group of school district union activists who are expressing concern of "wasteful spending" of taxpayers money IS the same group of union activists that threw a hissy fit because the board voted NOT to waste taxpayers money on Ohio School Board Association membership fees (even though it was understood that OSBA membership offered NOTHING for "the betterment of education" for ALL of our children.
This same group of union activists even circulated petitions against the Board of Education members who voted NO WASTEFUL SPENDING of taxpayers' money; BUT now Lisa Babb (among other union activists) are rallying for another "vote for revenge" on January 10 against the Springboro Board of Education's proposal to invest taxpayer's money in opportunities "for the betterment of education for All our school district children."
Could it be that union activists are more concerned with spending our school tax dollars on the OSBA training to promote and pass continuous streams of un-necessary school levies; than investing our school tax dollars in opportunities of greater achievements for our students?
Unions afraid

Cleveland, OH

#22879 Jan 6, 2013
Charter schools do not hire union teachers and pay less than average public school salaries. They have individual contracts with each teacher hired. So, who's afraid now, Mrs. Babb and friends?
The board could pull all the gifted kids out, get rid of those highly paid union label teachers and save the taxpayers some money.
First step though, no consultants. The treasurer should have the knowledge and ability to do the math. Whether or not there is an ethical conflict, there is the appearance of one.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22880 Jan 7, 2013
As I recall Mr. George Long explaining at one of the budget and finance committee meetings, he received either 600 or 900 applications for one teaching opening in our school district. The number was insane, but goes to show there are plenty of teachers willing and able to employ their chosen craft.
Just wondering

Germantown, OH

#22881 Jan 7, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
As I recall Mr. George Long explaining at one of the budget and finance committee meetings, he received either 600 or 900 applications for one teaching opening in our school district. The number was insane, but goes to show there are plenty of teachers willing and able to employ their chosen craft.
"G.L." is no longer employed by Springboro schools, habitual "B.S." being one of the key reasons.
Facts vs Opinion

Piqua, OH

#22882 Jan 7, 2013
Unions afraid wrote:
Charter schools do not hire union teachers and pay less than average public school salaries. They have individual contracts with each teacher hired. So, who's afraid now, Mrs. Babb and friends?
The board could pull all the gifted kids out, get rid of those highly paid union label teachers and save the taxpayers some money.
First step though, no consultants. The treasurer should have the knowledge and ability to do the math. Whether or not there is an ethical conflict, there is the appearance of one.
All due respect to personal opinions on procedures that our BOE could take to pursue greater achievements for our students...

as for me and my household of voters, we will trust the judgement of the BOE majority vote IF the decision is made to hire the consultant group. Investing taxpayer dollars for the expertise of an unbiased professional consultant group is NOT wasteful spending.
No personal judgement here on our school treasurer's expertise, but the fact is that the treasurer is a part-time school employee and isn't she contracted for overtime pay IF her expertise is needed by the board beyond her part time work hours; it is a fact that the treasurer is capable; but it is the OPINION of some taxpayers that the treasurer has a biased OPINION (and that her opinion leans toward the SEA agenda which opposes charter schools). It is a fact that our school treasurer strongly opposed the school boards decision not to waste our money paying OSBA membership fees. And it is a fact that in public meeting, union activist Lisa Babb has proposed to the Board that our school treasurer should be paid more money IF she is expected to keep the separate "Athletic Funds" separately from general fund in compliance with board by laws and poliicy.
Researching the advantages of charter schools to our students, in my opinion, should not be left to the routine responsibilities of our school treasurer (who is already over-worked, according to the public opinion of union activist, Lisa Babb).
Remember the January 10, 2013, school board meeting is on THURSDAY, when we can all learn more facts.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22883 Jan 7, 2013
If all of our children are gifted, why are so few taking Advanced Placement coursework and exams?

Passing those courses translates to FREE college credits and money in Mommy and Daddy's bank account.

Why are we so far below our peers? I mean, Lebanon has 46% of its students in those programs. I thought we were supposed to be so much better than everyone else?

Could it be that 37% of our kids in all grades are failing basic Reading?

Could it be that 38% of our kids in all grades are failing basic Math?

Percentages from the latest Ohio Department of Education report card

Oakwood High School is ranked 13th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Oakwood High School is 63 percent.

Kings High School is ranked 30th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Kings High School is 47 percent.

Lebanon High School is ranked 31st within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Lebanon High School is 46 percent.

Waynesville High School is ranked 65th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Waynesville High School is 37 percent.

Bellbrook High School is ranked 48th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Bellbrook High School is 35 percent.

Centerville High School is ranked 56th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Centerville High School is 30 percent.

Springboro High School is ranked 110th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Springboro High School is 20 percent.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22884 Jan 7, 2013
I have been miscalculating the damage being done by our current educational system.

I have been using the entire student population of 5493 in the Springboro school system to generate my percentages. This is an error because sophomores, juniors, and seniors are not reflected in the testing modalities. These high school students, quite simply, do not take the tests. Thus, the sophomores, juniors, and seniors are not represented in the final calculations except as a dilutant.

Subtract out the roughly 1100 sophomores, juniors, and seniors who do not take the tests and your new denominator becomes 4393 students taking the test rather than 5493 total student body population of the school district.

Our test results in that light sink from bad to abysmal

Reading from the last report card goes from 37% to actually 46%
(2030 students scoring BELOW 63%/ 4393 students taking the tests)

Math from the last report card goes from 38% to 47%
(2060 students scoring BELOW 60%/ 4393 students taking the tests)

There is little chance that those children will pick it up later in their educational careers. They will thus be precluded from participating in the highest level courses that would mean SAVINGS for Mom and Dad when footing the college bill.

Who is being cheated here?

The students are the main victim of this fraud, for they will pay for the rest of their lives.

The parents are the ones having to pay extra in an attempt to gain what was once lost in regards to educational opportunities. More college tuition payments for what was supposed to have been learned in high school.

The taxpayers who are in good faith are funding a program that comes up short for everyone but a select few.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22885 Jan 7, 2013
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-sch...

The source material for high school rankings in our area and the criteria for which they were developed.

http://www.ode.state.oh.us/reportcardfiles/20...

The source material for our collective test results in the Springboro School District. A little basic math and a few minutes of your time will verify those results that I have posted.
Union afraid

Cleveland, OH

#22886 Jan 7, 2013
Facts vs Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
All due respect to personal opinions on procedures that our BOE could take to pursue greater achievements for our students...
as for me and my household of voters, we will trust the judgement of the BOE majority vote IF the decision is made to hire the consultant group. Investing taxpayer dollars for the expertise of an unbiased professional consultant group is NOT wasteful spending.
No personal judgement here on our school treasurer's expertise, but the fact is that the treasurer is a part-time school employee and isn't she contracted for overtime pay IF her expertise is needed by the board beyond her part time work hours; it is a fact that the treasurer is capable; but it is the OPINION of some taxpayers that the treasurer has a biased OPINION (and that her opinion leans toward the SEA agenda which opposes charter schools). It is a fact that our school treasurer strongly opposed the school boards decision not to waste our money paying OSBA membership fees. And it is a fact that in public meeting, union activist Lisa Babb has proposed to the Board that our school treasurer should be paid more money IF she is expected to keep the separate "Athletic Funds" separately from general fund in compliance with board by laws and poliicy.
Researching the advantages of charter schools to our students, in my opinion, should not be left to the routine responsibilities of our school treasurer (who is already over-worked, according to the public opinion of union activist, Lisa Babb).
Remember the January 10, 2013, school board meeting is on THURSDAY, when we can all learn more facts.

Your "overworked" treasurer is currently also treasurer at 3 charter schools. I don't think she takes a union stand, seeing as she works both sides.
http://www.jarvisandassociates.com/uploads/Ja...
Facts vs Opinion

Piqua, OH

#22887 Jan 7, 2013
Union afraid wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "overworked" treasurer is currently also treasurer at 3 charter schools. I don't think she takes a union stand, seeing as she works both sides.
http://www.jarvisandassociates.com/uploads/Ja...
Point well taken. Again, no disrespect to the expertise of our school treasurer; but my own opinion, as a resident with one vote in this school district, stands firm that our school treasurer is not without projecting personal opinion of favoring the self-interest SEA agenda, over the best interest of our school children and community as a whole.

Another point, fact is, our current part-time school treasurer is one of the few remaining school employees, who along with board member Don Miller, are among those in leadership who obviously did not have our students best interest as priority over the booster board officials and sports coaches scamming of our students' sports fees.
Twp resident

Germantown, OH

#22888 Jan 7, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
I have been miscalculating the damage being done by our current educational system.
I have been using the entire student population of 5493 in the Springboro school system to generate my percentages. This is an error because sophomores, juniors, and seniors are not reflected in the testing modalities. These high school students, quite simply, do not take the tests. Thus, the sophomores, juniors, and seniors are not represented in the final calculations except as a dilutant.
Subtract out the roughly 1100 sophomores, juniors, and seniors who do not take the tests and your new denominator becomes 4393 students taking the test rather than 5493 total student body population of the school district.
Our test results in that light sink from bad to abysmal
Reading from the last report card goes from 37% to actually 46%
(2030 students scoring BELOW 63%/ 4393 students taking the tests)
Math from the last report card goes from 38% to 47%
(2060 students scoring BELOW 60%/ 4393 students taking the tests)
There is little chance that those children will pick it up later in their educational careers. They will thus be precluded from participating in the highest level courses that would mean SAVINGS for Mom and Dad when footing the college bill.
Who is being cheated here?
The students are the main victim of this fraud, for they will pay for the rest of their lives.
The parents are the ones having to pay extra in an attempt to gain what was once lost in regards to educational opportunities. More college tuition payments for what was supposed to have been learned in high school.
The taxpayers who are in good faith are funding a program that comes up short for everyone but a select few.
Thank you so much for accomplishing the long overdue task of laundering a lot of the "stinc" out of Distinction.
I can C clearly now

Piqua, OH

#22889 Jan 8, 2013
Unions afraid wrote:
Charter schools do not hire union teachers and pay less than average public school salaries. They have individual contracts with each teacher hired. So, who's afraid now, Mrs. Babb and friends?
The board could pull all the gifted kids out, get rid of those highly paid union label teachers and save the taxpayers some money.
First step though, no consultants. The treasurer should have the knowledge and ability to do the math. Whether or not there is an ethical conflict, there is the appearance of one.
As an average citizen listening to the charter schools presentation at the last school board meeting, I caught the projection of exciting possibilities that our resourceful school district has to offer students opportunity of higher achievements (beyond our status quo district rating of "has been a National Blue Ribbon school and has been excellent with distinction.)
We do have a firm educational foundation, built by Springboro families, taxpaying homeowners, good teachers and district leadership. So my thoughts were "why would anyone object to investing our school tax dollars researching ways to provide our students greater educational achievement?"
You see, at that time, I did not know that charter schools offered all highly qualified educators the Right to Work without their salaries being heavily taxed by the teachers unions. So, when a Springboro mom spoke up in favor of keeping our kids school tax dollars in the "public" school classrooms, I could see clearly that the opposition to charter schools holds the Teachers Union "collective self-interest of money and power" as priority over the best interest of our individual student's educational achievements.
I don't agree that the Teachers Union should "own" our children's
school tax dollars to be used solely for the union's "collective" self interest; so that's why I do not think that our school board is wasting my hard-earned school tax dollars investing in consultants researching opportunities to provide greater individual achievements for all our students.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22890 Jan 8, 2013
Bestowing the label of excellence on districts that do little to provide for students beyond basic proficiency helps no one. Even in elite, affluent suburbs, communities are lulled into complacent acceptance of the status quo even as their children perform at a level nowhere near excellent.

This phenomenon is nicely explained by Jay Greene, coauthor of
When the Best Is Mediocre:

State accountability systems and the desire to rationalize the lack of quality options have encouraged the elites to compare their affluent suburban districts to the large urban ones in their state. These inappropriate comparisons have falsely reassured them that their own school districts are doing well. This false reassurance has also perhaps undermined the desire among the elites to engage in dramatic education reform. As long as the elites hold onto the belief that their own school districts are excellent, they have little desire to push for the kind of significant systemic reforms that might improve their districts as well as the large urban districts. They
may wish the urban districts well and hope matters improve, but their taste for bold reform is limited by a false contentment with their own situation.

Radio audiences laugh at the imaginary Lake Wobegon, where all students are above average, but Ohio has taken things to a level that some have described as Lake Wobegon on steroids, and the damage to the educational system is becoming evident. It is time to take an honest look at state
standards and to see how these “excellent” districts are truly performing. Parents, policymakers, and the general public no longer can afford to pretend that the emperor is clothed. It is time to take a look at the ugly, naked truth about the accountability system in Ohio.
Where Is Accountability

Piqua, OH

#22891 Jan 9, 2013
Based on recent TV news reports and website news articles and public comments, that I have read about charter schools being pursued in Springboro, it is understood that the real "political battle" of Springboro union activists against the BOE elected majority is what it's all about to the Springboro Education Association (which is struggling mightily to empower itself with increased power and control over our kid's classroom teachers and school tax dollars).

The SEA political battle to hold our locally elected school board representatives ACCOUNTABILE to the governing restrictions of the Ohio School Board Association (instead of accountability to local school district taxpayers who have a responsibility to "govern ourselves" making financial decisions that ensure the best quality classroom education, while living within the means of our community resources).

NOW is the time for all concerned conversatives to get going in pursuit of higher achievements for all our children's future. Springboro self-interest union activists will never stop spreading lies that our "status quo" school district ratings are good enough for Springboro students; and that all things bad in our school district are the Springboro Board of Education representatives that are putting our children's classroom education first, in the best interest of doing what's right for our school children and commununity as a whole.
Let us not be taken in by these Springboro union activists (whose priority is NOT pursuing higher individual acedemic achievements for all children) but whose priority it is to pursue the same old politics of personal destruction undermining the integrity and character of all our school members who stand for our children FIRST budgeting, and refuse to bow to the union masters.
Truth teller

Springboro, OH

#22892 Jan 9, 2013
Reality Bytes wrote:
It isn't surprising that this same group of school district union activists who are expressing concern of "wasteful spending" of taxpayers money IS the same group of union activists that threw a hissy fit because the board voted NOT to waste taxpayers money on Ohio School Board Association membership fees (even though it was understood that OSBA membership offered NOTHING for "the betterment of education" for ALL of our children.
This same group of union activists even circulated petitions against the Board of Education members who voted NO WASTEFUL SPENDING of taxpayers' money; BUT now Lisa Babb (among other union activists) are rallying for another "vote for revenge" on January 10 against the Springboro Board of Education's proposal to invest taxpayer's money in opportunities "for the betterment of education for All our school district children."
Could it be that union activists are more concerned with spending our school tax dollars on the OSBA training to promote and pass continuous streams of un-necessary school levies; than investing our school tax dollars in opportunities of greater achievements for our students?
YES this group started a PETITION, yes another one. They are OSBA supporters because OSBA is an arm of the union. So do you know where they come from now? OSBA and the OEA have joined forces to stop education reform have lobbiests that lobby against school choice, lobby against our kids getting better than what they are getting. Everyone please see this article see the truth and see the lies you have been told about the quality of your childs education for years. WHY? Think of the agendas who wants you to think everything is hunky dori, everything they do is great and don't ask questions. OEA and OSBA that's who.
I will home school

Springboro, OH

#22893 Jan 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
If all of our children are gifted, why are so few taking Advanced Placement coursework and exams?
Passing those courses translates to FREE college credits and money in Mommy and Daddy's bank account.
Why are we so far below our peers? I mean, Lebanon has 46% of its students in those programs. I thought we were supposed to be so much better than everyone else?
Could it be that 37% of our kids in all grades are failing basic Reading?
Could it be that 38% of our kids in all grades are failing basic Math?
Percentages from the latest Ohio Department of Education report card
Oakwood High School is ranked 13th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Oakwood High School is 63 percent.
Kings High School is ranked 30th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Kings High School is 47 percent.
Lebanon High School is ranked 31st within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Lebanon High School is 46 percent.
Waynesville High School is ranked 65th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Waynesville High School is 37 percent.
Bellbrook High School is ranked 48th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Bellbrook High School is 35 percent.
Centerville High School is ranked 56th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Centerville High School is 30 percent.
Springboro High School is ranked 110th within Ohio. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Springboro High School is 20 percent.
I had no idea, now I am very frustrated. This is what Lisa Babb and others with her want to cover up with the "everything is great here in la la land"? According to her and her fellow bullies, "we are great so why mess with greatness"? Remember Lisa is a Teacher for public schools.
I think I am one of the last to know this stuff, is this why home schoolers went from 8 in 2009 to 200 today. So in just two years parents chose to educate at home rather than keeping them in a failing system. These parents want more for their kids shouldn't we?
Wondering

Springboro, OH

#22894 Jan 9, 2013
Facts vs Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Point well taken. Again, no disrespect to the expertise of our school treasurer; but my own opinion, as a resident with one vote in this school district, stands firm that our school treasurer is not without projecting personal opinion of favoring the self-interest SEA agenda, over the best interest of our school children and community as a whole.
Another point, fact is, our current part-time school treasurer is one of the few remaining school employees, who along with board member Don Miller, are among those in leadership who obviously did not have our students best interest as priority over the booster board officials and sports coaches scamming of our students' sports fees.
Remember after all that her husband is a teacher at Lakota. Can you be impartial about decisions if you work for charter schools and the union at the same time? Just asking. Maybe so.

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