Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in...

Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

There are 2047 comments on the EMS1 story from Feb 1, 2013, titled Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio. In it, EMS1 reports that:

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EMS1.

Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1206 May 1, 2013
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, I'm not your "dude".
Second of all, that's quite a perversion of the math. Try again. You said no one could refute you, looks like you were sadly mistaken.
You've been schooled by the truth!
Vote YES on 3!
Yo Dude, if I read your post correctly you are busily claiming victory in spite of doing nothing other than presenting assertions sans back up

If you can not even win this argument with reason, logic, or a combination of both, I must say your force me to advocate NO.

Vote No, they can't even stretch the truth with confidence in their claims .
Stay Focused

Cincinnati, OH

#1207 May 1, 2013
Clearcreek Township has a $12,000,000 Plus Fund Chas Balance proving there is no need for an additional levy at this time.

Stay Focused on Spreading the good news!

The time has come to go to the polls on May 7th and
Just Say No to Issue 3!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1208 May 1, 2013
No Support wrote:
I just travelled a different way home from 75S to 73E through Springboro and then 48N through some more of the township. I saw just one rather large, obnoxious yes sign.
I would say based on the open lack of signs, there is no support for this levy. Unless there's a bunch of sleeper cells out there.
I can tell you that the "NO!!!" voters will be at the polls.
This request is whole lot of money and no one can explain what they are using it for. Even if they've been spending $2M more than their budget, why $4.4 Million? Why didn't they cut spending on the $2M??
Average joes cannot spend more than they have and stay out of debt.
You can if you free money from the Department of Homeland Security to rehire, keep from firing, or hiring new firefighters. Trouble is the free money eventually runs dry, then all you are left with is a bloated infrastructure that the taxpayers are then asked to support whether needed or not.

If you live like it was 15 months ago, before they got hooked on the federal dope, the township would still be taking in more than it spent year after year.

Fire, EMS, and SAFER revenues and expenses

2012 ……………..2011……………2010……………..200 9…………..2008

Revenue

$5,023,271…....$5,072,766……..$ 4,873,446……..$4,504,135….$4,53 2,511
(Fire)

$532,689……....$539,564………$501, 786……….$512,669…….$542,772
(EMS)

$1,107,678……….$614,222………-0-…… ………….-0-……………-0-
(SAFER)

Expenditures

$4,513,882…….$5,080,122…….$4,9 25,104…...$4,425,707..…..$4,68 3,702
(Fire)
$703,538……….$354,312……….$332,5 63…………$401,775….....$296,199
(EMS)
$1,009,274…….$620,347……….-0-…… …………..-0-………………-0-
(SAFER)

Don't bail them out and don't let them blackmail you.

VOTE NO
focus

Xenia, OH

#1209 May 1, 2013
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
So was it Charlie that told you to vote no?
Or christman?
Both are communist sons of b*tches!!
Pickett ,put down the bottle...you moron..
No Support

Springfield, OH

#1210 May 1, 2013
Stay Focused wrote:
Clearcreek Township has a $12,000,000 Plus Fund Chas Balance proving there is no need for an additional levy at this time.
Stay Focused on Spreading the good news!
The time has come to go to the polls on May 7th and
Just Say No to Issue 3!
No support from me on Issue 3. Geez I'm a poet don't you know it.

12 Million bucks surplus in the bank--wow. I'm thinking we should be getting a rebate now.
YesTo3

United States

#1211 May 1, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Yo Dude, if I read your post correctly you are busily claiming victory in spite of doing nothing other than presenting assertions sans back up
If you can not even win this argument with reason, logic, or a combination of both, I must say your force me to advocate NO.
Vote No, they can't even stretch the truth with confidence in their claims .
Hey DUDE - here's the truth.

You can learn everything you need to know about the levy at www.yesto3.com .

Unlike those so desperately scrambling for votes right now there is no need to post, repost, and repost again the same hollow arguments based on fictitious numbers.

Instead, refer to the truth at yesto3.com .

If you don't believe that, read the Springboro Sun:
http://springborosun.com/main.asp...

Educated, informed, and totally engaged Americans see the facts through the rhetoric and choose to VOTE YES on 3!!
focus

United States

#1212 May 1, 2013
No Support wrote:
<quoted text>
No support from me on Issue 3. Geez I'm a poet don't you know it.
12 Million bucks surplus in the bank--wow. I'm thinking we should be getting a rebate now.
You're not a Shakespeare, there Jack.
focus

Xenia, OH

#1213 May 1, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
You're not a Shakespeare, there Jack.
dennis, put down the bottle...
No Support

Springfield, OH

#1214 May 1, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
You're not a Shakespeare, there Jack.
And you seem to know a lot about Jack, is that Daniels?
focus

United States

#1215 May 1, 2013
No Support wrote:
<quoted text>
And you seem to know a lot about Jack, is that Daniels?
Oh no, I'm a bourbon sort of guy...
focus

Xenia, OH

#1216 May 1, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no, I'm a bourbon sort of guy...
bet u r dennis...
focus

United States

#1217 May 1, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
bet u r dennis...
I can spell better than a 15yo girl...will you be my bff??
Just Vote No on May 7th

Cincinnati, OH

#1218 May 1, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You can if you free money from the Department of Homeland Security to rehire, keep from firing, or hiring new firefighters. Trouble is the free money eventually runs dry, then all you are left with is a bloated infrastructure that the taxpayers are then asked to support whether needed or not.
If you live like it was 15 months ago, before they got hooked on the federal dope, the township would still be taking in more than it spent year after year.
Fire, EMS, and SAFER revenues and expenses
2012 ……………..2011……………2010……………..200 9…………..2008
Revenue
$5,023,271…....$5,072,766……..$ 4,873,446……..$4,504,135….$4,53 2,511
(Fire)
$532,689……....$539,564………$501, 786……….$512,669…….$542,772
(EMS)
$1,107,678……….$614,222………-0-…… ………….-0-……………-0-
(SAFER)
Expenditures
$4,513,882…….$5,080,122…….$4,9 25,104…...$4,425,707..…..$4,68 3,702
(Fire)
$703,538……….$354,312……….$332,5 63…………$401,775….....$296,199
(EMS)
$1,009,274…….$620,347……….-0-…… …………..-0-………………-0-
(SAFER)
Don't bail them out and don't let them blackmail you.
VOTE NO
Thank You!

Spread the good news! No Additional Levy Needed at this time!

Just Vote NO on May 7th!
focus

United States

#1219 May 1, 2013
Just Vote No on May 7th wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank You!
Spread the good news! No Additional Levy Needed at this time!
Just Vote NO on May 7th!
Really dumba**? Thanking yourself?
Twp resident

Cleveland, OH

#1220 May 1, 2013
YesTo3 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey DUDE - here's the truth.
You can learn everything you need to know about the levy at www.yesto3.com .
Unlike those so desperately scrambling for votes right now there is no need to post, repost, and repost again the same hollow arguments based on fictitious numbers.
Instead, refer to the truth at yesto3.com .
If you don't believe that, read the Springboro Sun:
http://springborosun.com/main.asp...
Educated, informed, and totally engaged Americans see the facts through the rhetoric and choose to VOTE YES on 3!!
Oh, yes...Vote YES on 3!!... Clearcreek Township firefighters and EMTs are counting on ...YOU... to subsidize each and every one of their respective 2013 bass boat & trailer purchases!!
Its Beckers Fault

Englewood, OH

#1221 May 1, 2013
You folks need to open your eyes and see the truth as to why the fire department needs additional money! It all goes back to the old fire chief, Bernie Becker. He was finally run out of town a couple years back.

When Bernie Becker wasn't busy molesting his firefighters (males) he was spending the funds from the 2001 levy hand over fist. He bought his way onto every board and commission he could find so that others would think he was important.

When his unscrupulous actions finally caught the attention of the public and the press, it was your taxpayer dollars that were spent to bail his sorry behind out. He was finally given the ability to "retire", right before a judge handed down a finding that would have certainly cost the fire department millions.

Bernie Becker, aka Chief Kelly Daugherty, was a disgrace to Springboro and is the real reason that the fire department is in the shape it is in currently.

I don't blame the current fire chief at all for the situation, I'm sure he's doing a good job pulling together the pieces this knucklehead left behind.

If Bernie is voting against the levy, I'll vote for it.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1222 May 1, 2013
YesTo3 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey DUDE - here's the truth.
You can learn everything you need to know about the levy at www.yesto3.com .
Unlike those so desperately scrambling for votes right now there is no need to post, repost, and repost again the same hollow arguments based on fictitious numbers.
Instead, refer to the truth at yesto3.com .
If you don't believe that, read the Springboro Sun:
http://springborosun.com/main.asp...
Educated, informed, and totally engaged Americans see the facts through the rhetoric and choose to VOTE YES on 3!!
In case you missed this I will post it once again. If these numbers are fictitious then the accounting department at the township definitely does not need any more money to handle.

From the fiscal officer of the township, Ms. Oda.

Fire, EMS, and SAFER revenues and expenses

2012 ……………..2011……………2010……………..200 9…………..2008

Revenue

$5,023,271…....$5,072,766……..$ 4,873,446……..$4,504,135….$4,53 2,511
(Fire)

$532,689……....$539,564………$501, 786……….$512,669…….$542,772
(EMS)

$1,107,678……….$614,222………-0-…… ………….-0-……………-0-
(SAFER)

Expenditures

$4,513,882…….$5,080,122…….$4,9 25,104…...$4,425,707..…..$4,68 3,702
(Fire)
$703,538……….$354,312……….$332,5 63…………$401,775….....$296,199
(EMS)
$1,009,274…….$620,347……….-0-…… …………..-0-………………-0-
(SAFER)

The only thing the township can't fund is the replacement money for the "FREE" goodies when that well runs dry. If the feds are passing out "FREE" money it is for a reason and generally not the one stated. SAFER is designed to make union employment safer for the public employees.

Your stimulus dollars (actually the money we borrowed from China), hard at work larding union rolls in the public sector.

The levy the community passed in 2001 is still chugging along providing us with revenue surpluses year after year after year. You don't accidentally put this much money in the bank.

Fund..........2008..........20 09..........2010..........2011 ..........2012
Fire..........6,484,996....... 6,552,589.....6,850,299.....6, 692,969 ...7,413,186
Police........2,280,119......2 ,219,504.....2,262,053.....2,6 20,436 ...3,091,206
Ambulnce..749,103..........859 ,997.....1,029,011......1,214, 472...1,043,064
General......1,007,123........ 919, 603.......982,624......1,124,9 96...1,011,082
All Other.....1,224,763.....1,721, 95 8......996,804......1,226,120. ... 1,343,007
TOTAL.......11,745,106...12,27 3 ,651..,12,123,011..12,881,004. . 13,901,544

These were the Clearcreek Township Year End Fund Balances provided by Linda Oda, the township financial officer

VOTE NO
Indian Beach

Springfield, OH

#1223 May 2, 2013
Its Beckers Fault wrote:
You folks need to open your eyes and see the truth as to why the fire department needs additional money! It all goes back to the old fire chief, Bernie Becker. He was finally run out of town ......
Interesting smoke you're trying to blow out of that peace pipe. A simple Google search found that this Chief Becker tried to get another job in Indian Beach North Carolina, but somebody tipped off the town and the NC newspapers.

Was the former Chief allowed to retire a miscarriage of justice? I'm asking because it sounds like our firefighters or the union bosses have a vendetta against this man. If you wanted him punished for sexual harassment and abuse of power and creating a hostile work environment why didn't you fight hard against letting him just retire? Why did it take whatever 10+ years of supposed abuse for someone to complain?

I do know that it's hard to fight union money when the lawyers come out. I was in the military and was hit with an unfair labor practice twice. Once when I approved the renovation of a break room. The other one was when the civil engineers had to move a water fountain due to a health inspection violation. Thank heavens Uncle Sam has deep pockets. Well, I don't know about that anymore. Feds are broke. But what I mean is I didn't have to hire my own lawyer to defend myself against bogus charges.

So, why did the union firefighters follow this Chief to NC? Isn't a man innocent until proven guilty in America? What exactly did he do to deserve this? And what is he still doing now these years later to evoke more wrath?

I'm really wondering about this levy now. I'm not from around here, but this small township insider intrigue makes me really question motives and real needs for this money.

What the heck are the firefighters and their union doing? They seem to have way too much time on their hands. Or, they all need to get psychiatric help if what Chief Becker did to them is still affecting them.
Neighbor

Englewood, OH

#1224 May 2, 2013
Indian Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting smoke you're trying to blow out of that peace pipe. A simple Google search found that this Chief Becker tried to get another job in Indian Beach North Carolina, but somebody tipped off the town and the NC newspapers.
Was the former Chief allowed to retire a miscarriage of justice? I'm asking because it sounds like our firefighters or the union bosses have a vendetta against this man. If you wanted him punished for sexual harassment and abuse of power and creating a hostile work environment why didn't you fight hard against letting him just retire? Why did it take whatever 10+ years of supposed abuse for someone to complain?
I do know that it's hard to fight union money when the lawyers come out. I was in the military and was hit with an unfair labor practice twice. Once when I approved the renovation of a break room. The other one was when the civil engineers had to move a water fountain due to a health inspection violation. Thank heavens Uncle Sam has deep pockets. Well, I don't know about that anymore. Feds are broke. But what I mean is I didn't have to hire my own lawyer to defend myself against bogus charges.
So, why did the union firefighters follow this Chief to NC? Isn't a man innocent until proven guilty in America? What exactly did he do to deserve this? And what is he still doing now these years later to evoke more wrath?
I'm really wondering about this levy now. I'm not from around here, but this small township insider intrigue makes me really question motives and real needs for this money.
What the heck are the firefighters and their union doing? They seem to have way too much time on their hands. Or, they all need to get psychiatric help if what Chief Becker did to them is still affecting them.
Bernie got what was coming to him. As his former neighbor, we all despised him. He tried to take over and ruin the HOA just like he did the fire department. Pretty sure he was hitting on the guys that mow the grass too. This guy was a grade A nut job.

I know Bernie was proven guilty, and I'm glad the people of North Carolina were spared from his "service". I don't see this having anything to do with the firefighters, it's just the mess that was left by Bernie and the way he ran things.

Also, I'm pretty sure he's not "Chief Becker" anymore. He's not working for any fire department last I heard from the neighborhood. Don't think he deserves that title any more, especially considering the mess he left the fire department in.
Yesto3

Ashburn, VA

#1225 May 2, 2013
Learn the facts on the fire levy - visit www.yesto3.com .

Join me in voting YES to Issue 3 next Tuesday!

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