Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in...

Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

There are 2047 comments on the EMS1 story from Feb 1, 2013, titled Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio. In it, EMS1 reports that:

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EMS1.

focus

Springfield, OH

#943 Apr 24, 2013
effective rate wrote:
<quoted text>
"Frankly I have no idea who Steven Muterspaw is but he's got my vote." That's brilliant. I don't know him either, but I am not going to blindly vote for him - hope for your sake he isn't an axe murderer.....
I believe what he meant was, he wasn't voting for wade or another wade goon, dale lamb. And I agree with that, I'll take my chances on a stranger, not a money grabbing duet like Wade and Lamb.
Stop Emotional Blackmail

Cincinnati, OH

#944 Apr 24, 2013
funny wrote:
Its funny how Chrisman and his tea party bozos continue to make up their own fairy tale land where all the information, skewed to misrepresent the facts, makes some sort of sense to some sort of people who are just twisted enough to get it.
Fortunately, real people of average intelligence aren't believing it. We personally look into it and we see right through your malarky that is posted and reposted and reposted.
You know the old saying - a lie told often enough begins to sound like the truth.
Seeing the same lies thrown up day after day tells me you have even duped yourselves into believing they are true.
Fortunately, real people see past that..
We know our friends, family, neighbors, and community leaders support maintaining a strong fire department.
We'll accept nothing less.
Join me in voting YES on Issue 3 - May 7th
The only thing "funny" on this blog is the reposting of silly threats that the pro-levy lovers will accept nothing less than getting More of what they don't need -- OUR MONEY!
Enough of your silly emotional blackmail malarky!

RESPONSIBLE Citizens Don't Waste Their Hard Earned Money and we expect our government leaders to provide needed public safety services, while keeping the costs of services affordable by carefully adhering to RESPONSIBLE SPENDING!
Why Is Mr. Pickett, Mr. Wade, and Mr. Gabbard promoting a false budget crisis in our Fire District Fund, holding residents hostage over things like shutting down a fire station and increasing response time to emergencies?
The Time has Come to Tell Mr. Pickett and Township leaders to Stop Wasting Our Money transferring general fund tax dollars to purchase land from CC Township trustee, Jason Gabbard; and voting to donate $250,000 to Springboro parks. Why does Mr. Wade think "more soccer fields" in Springboro are more important than purchasing gasoline for our fire trucks and ambulances?
The general fund does already accumulate about a Million Dollars surplus each continuing year. Why such poor management of our tax dollars; And why in the world would any educated, Responsible citizen vote Yes to give the Township government MORE...?
The time has come to tell Mr. Kidd To Stop This Emotional "Blackmailing For Dollars." There will be NO shutting down our Fire Station and No FIRING of Our Fireman. Why would any fire chief do such an irresponsible thing to the community that is already generating enough tax dollars to pay for services?

The Time Has Come to Just Say NO to Issue 3 on May 7th.
JUST VOTE NO is the Right and Responsible Way to Keep Our Springboro Community Both SAFE and AFFORDABLE!"
focus

Springfield, OH

#945 Apr 24, 2013
Dale Lamb is already a millionaire, so why is he running for twnship trustee.. Again ? It's a power trip, wanting to join the double dippers for their greed at the expense of all of the Springboro area taxpayers. BTW, Dale Lamb and his loose lips has already said that the mayor, our infamous "silver star winner" will help finance Lamb's election run. When will the folks wake up and realize that ths area is run by only 2 people, Wade & Agenbroad ? Time to take back our community !
effective rate

Springboro, OH

#946 Apr 24, 2013
focus wrote:
Dale Lamb is already a millionaire, so why is he running for twnship trustee.. Again ? It's a power trip, wanting to join the double dippers for their greed at the expense of all of the Springboro area taxpayers. BTW, Dale Lamb and his loose lips has already said that the mayor, our infamous "silver star winner" will help finance Lamb's election run. When will the folks wake up and realize that ths area is run by only 2 people, Wade & Agenbroad ? Time to take back our community !
"Time to take back the community" - so it sounds like you are gonna throw your hat into the ring and run for office then?

Since: Aug 12

Mount Gilead, OH

#947 Apr 24, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe what he meant was, he wasn't voting for wade or another wade goon, dale lamb. And I agree with that, I'll take my chances on a stranger, not a money grabbing duet like Wade and Lamb.
Thank you, that is what I meant,effective rate didn't get my irony I guess. I did walk to the mailbox and ask my 72 yr old neighbor third generation Clearcreek resident, about the Muterspaw family, got good comments, Small farm Pekin Rd, active with 4H, thought he's wife was a teacher, no mention of ax-murdering.
Wade-Lamb and Gabbard, might as well hand over our check books, savings and deeds.
Not Funny At All

Cincinnati, OH

#948 Apr 24, 2013
funny wrote:
Its funny how Chrisman and his tea party bozos continue to make up their own fairy tale land where all the information, skewed to misrepresent the facts, makes some sort of sense to some sort of people who are just twisted enough to get it.
Fortunately, real people of average intelligence aren't believing it. We personally look into it and we see right through your malarky that is posted and reposted and reposted.
You know the old saying - a lie told often enough begins to sound like the truth.
Seeing the same lies thrown up day after day tells me you have even duped yourselves into believing they are true.
Fortunately, real people see past that..
We know our friends, family, neighbors, and community leaders support maintaining a strong fire department.
We'll accept nothing less.
Join me in voting YES on Issue 3 - May 7th
WE all know the old saying "never let a crisis go to waste."
And in Government Speak, that means "Keep Wasting Taxpayers Money then Create a budget Crisis and Emotinally Blackmail Taxpayers to Give Government More...OR else bring great harm to your family and your property!" Why should taxpaying homeowners TRUST Mr. Kidd to have our public safety a PRIORITY in this Issue of "Help Us Help You" with leadership like this?
focus

Springfield, OH

#949 Apr 24, 2013
effective rate wrote:
<quoted text>
"Time to take back the community" - so it sounds like you are gonna throw your hat into the ring and run for office then?
maybe.....
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#950 Apr 24, 2013
Why do we need a new fire levy if the old one is still generating huge surpluses.
Is or is not the following summation correct.

Fund..........2008..........20 09..........2010..........2011 ..........2012
Fire..........6,484,996....6,5 52,589...6,850,299...6,692,969 ...7,413,186
Police........2,280,119....2,2 19,504...2,262,053...2,620,436 ...3,091,206
Ambulnce..749,103.......859,99 7.....1,029,011....1,214,472.. .1,043,064
General......1,007,123....919, 603.....982,624.......1.124.99 6...1,011,082
All Other.....1,224,763...1,721,95 8...996,804......1,226,120.... 1,343,007
TOTAL.......11,745,106..12,273 ,651..12,123,011..12,881,004.. 13,901,544

These were the Clearcreek Township Year End Fund Balances provided by Linda Oda, the township financial officer when I requested the information.

When I see strong growth in each fund over a five year period I have to wonder why they need more?

Over a five year period that saw many of us retrench and get economical, our township surplus has grown 15.5%. Pretty good stewardship.

So why do they need a new levy?

Why do we have to layoff emergency personnel if we are putting money in the bank each year now? Are we looking to put 30% in the bank?

I read the articles, saw the you tube presentation, and looked at the numbers and still my question is why do we need to give them more money ?
Yeah right

Cleveland, OH

#951 Apr 24, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
maybe.....
Sure you will.......
funny

United States

#952 Apr 24, 2013
Say yes to 3....a yes vote is a vote against extreme right wing terrorists!
funny

United States

#953 Apr 24, 2013
Learn the facts - say yes to 3 on May 7th!

Visit yesto3.com !
The Record Speaks

Cincinnati, OH

#954 Apr 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Why do we need a new fire levy if the old one is still generating huge surpluses.
Is or is not the following summation correct.
Fund..........2008..........20 09..........2010..........2011 ..........2012
Fire..........6,484,996....6,5 52,589...6,850,299...6,692,969 ...7,413,186
Police........2,280,119....2,2 19,504...2,262,053...2,620,436 ...3,091,206
Ambulnce..749,103.......859,99 7.....1,029,011....1,214,472.. .1,043,064
General......1,007,123....919, 603.....982,624.......1.124.99 6...1,011,082
All Other.....1,224,763...1,721,95 8...996,804......1,226,120.... 1,343,007
TOTAL.......11,745,106..12,273 ,651..12,123,011..12,881,004.. 13,901,544
These were the Clearcreek Township Year End Fund Balances provided by Linda Oda, the township financial officer when I requested the information.
When I see strong growth in each fund over a five year period I have to wonder why they need more?
Over a five year period that saw many of us retrench and get economical, our township surplus has grown 15.5%. Pretty good stewardship.
So why do they need a new levy?
Why do we have to layoff emergency personnel if we are putting money in the bank each year now? Are we looking to put 30% in the bank?
I read the articles, saw the you tube presentation, and looked at the numbers and still my question is why do we need to give them more money ?
Thank You.
Based on the official financial records, there is no new levy needed.
funny

United States

#955 Apr 24, 2013
The Record Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank You.
Based on the official financial records, there is no new levy needed.
Those figures have been falsified illegally.
Resident and Tax Payer

Cleveland, OH

#956 Apr 25, 2013
The Record Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank You.
Based on the official financial records, there is no new levy needed.
Really? I am not so sure. I have been reviewing the finiancial records posted on the Clearcreek Township website. I do not know how anyone could conclude anything definitive from those reports. None of the report formats match , the software versions are all different , two of the reports listed under two different years are the exact same report / data. None of the reports show performance trending. Maybe we need a new fiscal officer instead!

Anyway, I will be asking for copies of the information reported in a better format where you can actually see what the actual performance trending is. End of year Fund balances are meaningless unless you can see the actual cash flow trending and have a clear information any specific requirements concerning the individual funds. If I am not mistaken, Townships have to operate on temporary funding appropriations for approximately 1 quarter annually. In order for that to work there must be budget carry over to pay the bills during that period. I do not believe the reports provided show any of that.

Personally, I have no reason to blindly believe the Fire Department personnel would ask for funding they do not need. Looking at the employment requirements posted on the Clearcreek Township website the Fire Personnel have very high standards required as to honesty and integrity, they receive very intrusive background checks to include drug testing, criminal history, driving record review, personal credit history, psychological exams, and multiple polygraph examinations. Maybe we should require the same for anyone running for an elected political position?

My gut feeling and personal experience is that past performance is the best predictor of future performance. I see that that there have only been two Fire levys in 26 years. That is unheard of in today's world. Looks to me like they have been very fiscally responsible with my tax money based upon the available information. We shall soon see.
Stop Emotional Blackmail

Cincinnati, OH

#957 Apr 25, 2013
Resident and Tax Payer wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I am not so sure. I have been reviewing the finiancial records posted on the Clearcreek Township website. I do not know how anyone could conclude anything definitive from those reports. None of the report formats match , the software versions are all different , two of the reports listed under two different years are the exact same report / data. None of the reports show performance trending. Maybe we need a new fiscal officer instead!
Anyway, I will be asking for copies of the information reported in a better format where you can actually see what the actual performance trending is. End of year Fund balances are meaningless unless you can see the actual cash flow trending and have a clear information any specific requirements concerning the individual funds. If I am not mistaken, Townships have to operate on temporary funding appropriations for approximately 1 quarter annually. In order for that to work there must be budget carry over to pay the bills during that period. I do not believe the reports provided show any of that.
Personally, I have no reason to blindly believe the Fire Department personnel would ask for funding they do not need. Looking at the employment requirements posted on the Clearcreek Township website the Fire Personnel have very high standards required as to honesty and integrity, they receive very intrusive background checks to include drug testing, criminal history, driving record review, personal credit history, psychological exams, and multiple polygraph examinations. Maybe we should require the same for anyone running for an elected political position?
My gut feeling and personal experience is that past performance is the best predictor of future performance. I see that that there have only been two Fire levys in 26 years. That is unheard of in today's world. Looks to me like they have been very fiscally responsible with my tax money based upon the available information. We shall soon see.
There REALLY is NO reason for the Fire District to ask for a new levy. Enough money is being generated by the continuing levy to pay the firefighters to do their jobs successfully, without all this deceit of needing more, "just to maintain existing services."

Educated voters must not be mislead by the mantra that the Fire District owns OUR money, and the time has come for us to give the Fire District MORE of our money, because it has been too long since the Fire District has had NEW money.
Responsible citizens who are educated voters will just say NO to Issue 3 on May 7th.
Why Waste Your Money?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#958 Apr 25, 2013
funny wrote:
<quoted text>
Those figures have been falsified illegally.
Is there a way to falsify public records legally?

If you have another set, please share.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#959 Apr 25, 2013
Resident and Tax Payer wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I am not so sure. I have been reviewing the finiancial records posted on the Clearcreek Township website. I do not know how anyone could conclude anything definitive from those reports. None of the report formats match , the software versions are all different , two of the reports listed under two different years are the exact same report / data. None of the reports show performance trending. Maybe we need a new fiscal officer instead!
Anyway, I will be asking for copies of the information reported in a better format where you can actually see what the actual performance trending is. End of year Fund balances are meaningless unless you can see the actual cash flow trending and have a clear information any specific requirements concerning the individual funds. If I am not mistaken, Townships have to operate on temporary funding appropriations for approximately 1 quarter annually. In order for that to work there must be budget carry over to pay the bills during that period. I do not believe the reports provided show any of that.
Personally, I have no reason to blindly believe the Fire Department personnel would ask for funding they do not need. Looking at the employment requirements posted on the Clearcreek Township website the Fire Personnel have very high standards required as to honesty and integrity, they receive very intrusive background checks to include drug testing, criminal history, driving record review, personal credit history, psychological exams, and multiple polygraph examinations. Maybe we should require the same for anyone running for an elected political position?
My gut feeling and personal experience is that past performance is the best predictor of future performance. I see that that there have only been two Fire levys in 26 years. That is unheard of in today's world. Looks to me like they have been very fiscally responsible with my tax money based upon the available information. We shall soon see.
Year end balances that grow each year are indicative of more money coming in than is going out.

This does not mean that it is time to begin wasting the balances so we can say we are broke now, that is a school district tactic. Watchful eyes will need to be vigilant so that our taxpayer funded resources are not now plundered and squandered.

And as a final side note, our fiscal officer seems to be doing quite well.

Reporting with transparency is better than informing in the dark.
The Record Speaks

Cincinnati, OH

#960 Apr 25, 2013
funny wrote:
<quoted text>
Those figures have been falsified illegally.
Those figures have NOT been falsified illegally.

Why the deceit and false accusations?
Taxpaying Resident

Cincinnati, OH

#961 Apr 25, 2013
Resident and Tax Payer wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I am not so sure. I have been reviewing the finiancial records posted on the Clearcreek Township website. I do not know how anyone could conclude anything definitive from those reports. None of the report formats match , the software versions are all different , two of the reports listed under two different years are the exact same report / data. None of the reports show performance trending. Maybe we need a new fiscal officer instead!
Anyway, I will be asking for copies of the information reported in a better format where you can actually see what the actual performance trending is. End of year Fund balances are meaningless unless you can see the actual cash flow trending and have a clear information any specific requirements concerning the individual funds. If I am not mistaken, Townships have to operate on temporary funding appropriations for approximately 1 quarter annually. In order for that to work there must be budget carry over to pay the bills during that period. I do not believe the reports provided show any of that.
Personally, I have no reason to blindly believe the Fire Department personnel would ask for funding they do not need. Looking at the employment requirements posted on the Clearcreek Township website the Fire Personnel have very high standards required as to honesty and integrity, they receive very intrusive background checks to include drug testing, criminal history, driving record review, personal credit history, psychological exams, and multiple polygraph examinations. Maybe we should require the same for anyone running for an elected political position?
My gut feeling and personal experience is that past performance is the best predictor of future performance. I see that that there have only been two Fire levys in 26 years. That is unheard of in today's world. Looks to me like they have been very fiscally responsible with my tax money based upon the available information. We shall soon see.
In today's world, the only thing that is unheard of is local government reducing the heavy tax burden levied upon Taxpayers who never get a break from Ohio's outdated practice of forced unionism. Forced unionism in Ohio's workplace is keeping our economy weak and private sector employment low; while government service workers increase, demanding job security with increasing salaries and compensation/benefits packages, at the expense of taxpayers! Taxpaying homeowners are out of work, out of money, and out of sympathy for the public service workers who have it so good in Springboro! "Say Yes to 3 Help Us Help You" is out of the question for my family and me. We simply cannot afford paying More to the CC Fire District. Just Vote No on May 7th.
Stop Emotional Blackmail

Cincinnati, OH

#962 Apr 25, 2013
funny wrote:
Say yes to 3....a yes vote is a vote against extreme right wing terrorists!
...a yes vote is a vote that will strengthen this type of bully mentality against Springboro taxpayers by our "funny" pro-levy lovers. Do we want this sick tone and tenor strengthened in our community?

Why Not Just Say No on May 7th to this emotional blackmailing for more dollars that are not needed, but greedily wanted by our CC fire district leaders/firefighters?

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