Will Russia's Afghan Fate Be America's?

Will Russia's Afghan Fate Be America's?

There are 46 comments on the International Herald Tribune story from Dec 1, 2009, titled Will Russia's Afghan Fate Be America's?. In it, International Herald Tribune reports that:

John F. Burns, the chief foreign correspondent for The Times, responded to a common them among the readers of At War - that the U.S. should learn from the Soviets' experience in Afghanistan and withdraw its troops.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at International Herald Tribune.

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“l'enfer, c'est les autres”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#1 Dec 1, 2009
I have been saying this forever. Russia learned a harsh lesson in that hell-hole country and finally they said, "Vladimir, thees people are crazy, and this war goes nowhere. Let us get the hell home."

They weren't concerned about how they were seen in the international theatres. The didn't concede or surrender a thing. They just had a flash of wisdom, packed up and left.

Why can't the USA pick up on this? What the hell do we have to gain there (or in Iraq)? I don't give a rat's azz about "the oil" or American oil interests. The Afghans, Pakis and Iraqis will NEVER be democratic or promote individual rights. Muslims have no clue what all that means. All they know is tribal warfare, revenge, and their sickening, brutal form of "law" Shari-ah.

Yes we could learn from the Russians! GET AMERICANS OUT OF THOSE GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRIES! BRING THEM HOME NOW!

Wall off the muslim wastelands and let them kill each other! That's what they do best!

“It's 420 here.”

Since: Jun 07

cold comfort farm

#2 Dec 1, 2009
nmweatherman wrote:
I have been saying this forever. Russia learned a harsh lesson in that hell-hole country and finally they said, "Vladimir, thees people are crazy, and this war goes nowhere. Let us get the hell home."
They weren't concerned about how they were seen in the international theatres. The didn't concede or surrender a thing. They just had a flash of wisdom, packed up and left.
Why can't the USA pick up on this? What the hell do we have to gain there (or in Iraq)? I don't give a rat's azz about "the oil" or American oil interests. The Afghans, Pakis and Iraqis will NEVER be democratic or promote individual rights. Muslims have no clue what all that means. All they know is tribal warfare, revenge, and their sickening, brutal form of "law" Shari-ah.
Yes we could learn from the Russians! GET AMERICANS OUT OF THOSE GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRIES! BRING THEM HOME NOW!
Wall off the muslim wastelands and let them kill each other! That's what they do best!
I could not say it better. The Ruskies didn't have to apologize for techniques employed and they failed. Our troops hands are tied.
And the Afghanis are fiercely proud of their country.
They are best left alone.
NW Hominid

Auburn, WA

#3 Dec 1, 2009
Not our fight, the terrain neutralizes our technology - the elements drain our vision...ax the Apache!

“oderint dum metuant”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#4 Dec 1, 2009
nmweatherman wrote:
I have been saying this forever. Russia learned a harsh lesson in that hell-hole country and finally they said, "Vladimir, thees people are crazy, and this war goes nowhere. Let us get the hell home."
They weren't concerned about how they were seen in the international theatres. The didn't concede or surrender a thing. They just had a flash of wisdom, packed up and left.
Why can't the USA pick up on this? What the hell do we have to gain there (or in Iraq)? I don't give a rat's azz about "the oil" or American oil interests. The Afghans, Pakis and Iraqis will NEVER be democratic or promote individual rights. Muslims have no clue what all that means. All they know is tribal warfare, revenge, and their sickening, brutal form of "law" Shari-ah.
Yes we could learn from the Russians! GET AMERICANS OUT OF THOSE GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRIES! BRING THEM HOME NOW!
Wall off the muslim wastelands and let them kill each other! That's what they do best!
I think your neglecting a few minor details..

Soviet military doctrine in Afganistan is completely different from the US doctrine.

The Soviet doctrine was based almost entirely on conquer and subjugate. After failing that, they left

Remove any leadership that doesn't align itself with communism, set up a communist government and kill or imprison those that don't toe the line...

Russia made no attempt to establish any education or Afgan security forces.

There were no provincial reconstructions teams started by the soviets.

Russia made no attempt to start or lay the foundation for local
industry or establish any productive farming or produce any exportable commodities.(unless it was a commodity going back to Russia for nothing).

US led doctrine is doing all this..

Working to establish poppy alternative cash crops.
Such has potatos
http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc2004/poster...

http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/Article.796.a...

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.a...

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser...

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1079190....

“Give the Bear a hug!”

Since: Oct 08

Home is where you park it

#5 Dec 1, 2009
The next year is going to be critical. If the surge works, like in Iraq, then we can begin to leave. If the body count goes up, which it undoubtedly will, a skeptical public, tired of how long this has already dragged out, will become more outraged.
Mike

Dunn, NC

#6 Dec 1, 2009
What does an 80's CIA victory have to do with the current war?

“It's about the American People”

Since: Jun 07

Flushing, NY

#8 Dec 1, 2009
The Islamic terrorists of the Mujahadeen defeated the Russian with the support of US missiles in 1989, while US troops are defeated by the same Islamic terrorists only because the African secret Muslim liar in chief Obama seek their defeat.
The mysterious African Barack Obama may hurry to pull US troops out of Afghanistan even before the new 30,000 will even get to Afghanistan in his ‘mixed signal’ of ‘the naked emperor’s strategy that aims at confusing every American and every Afghan.
The fake commander in chief Obama who is ready to declare today the defeat of our brave US troops to the Taliban Jihadist terrorist is concentrating on pulling of US troops out of Afghanistan before the presidential elections of 2012. In addition, Obama does not know where to send our US troops and the planned addition of US troops will be delayed for year or two until Obama will find a place where our troops can stay safely and protected from Taliban Islamic terrorists attacks.
Everything is seems to be upside down and hopeless for our US troops with the African secret Muslim liar in chief Obama who hates our US troops and loves the radical Islamic terrorist enemy desire to use our US troops for anything but for fighting his Islamic ‘buddies’, including decorating the classrooms in Afghan schools.
There is no military goal or objective for our US troops in Afghanistan after that Obama declared that there is no Islamic terrorist enemy in Afghanistan and that he will never fight Islam and more particularly the “good” Islamic Jihadists of the Taliban that Obama desire to award the rule over Afghanistan.
It is time to stop the African son of the pro-Iranian Kenyan Luo Tribe Barack Obama’s madness and impeach the fake commander in chief that represents the interests of anybody else including the Islamic world except the interests of the American people and our US troops.
Chockmah

Las Vegas, NV

#9 Dec 1, 2009
Who is tidal King of Goyim? is that the Tide clean cloths program? Non-profit?

“It's 420 here.”

Since: Jun 07

cold comfort farm

#10 Dec 1, 2009
Chockmah wrote:
Who is tidal King of Goyim? is that the Tide clean cloths program? Non-profit?
Find a hole, and insert yourself.
droll ing and ready

Douglas, GA

#11 Dec 1, 2009
too droll to troll wrote:
<quoted text>
Find a hole, and insert yourself.
i thought i could hook up with your sister or mother maybe you if you turn the lights off and insert i likes that

“Truth to Power!”

Since: Apr 07

Cordova, TN

#13 Dec 1, 2009
too droll to troll wrote:
<quoted text>
I could not say it better. The Ruskies didn't have to apologize for techniques employed and they failed. Our troops hands are tied.
And the Afghanis are fiercely proud of their country.
They are best left alone.
Great Post. Agree. Doubling down now is twice as dumb.

“Truth to Power!”

Since: Apr 07

Cordova, TN

#14 Dec 1, 2009
nmweatherman wrote:
I have been saying this forever. Russia learned a harsh lesson in that hell-hole country and finally they said, "Vladimir, thees people are crazy, and this war goes nowhere. Let us get the hell home."

They weren't concerned about how they were seen in the international theatres. The didn't concede or surrender a thing. They just had a flash of wisdom, packed up and left.

Why can't the USA pick up on this? What the hell do we have to gain there (or in Iraq)? I don't give a rat's azz about "the oil" or American oil interests. The Afghans, Pakis and Iraqis will NEVER be democratic or promote individual rights. Muslims have no clue what all that means. All they know is tribal warfare, revenge, and their sickening, brutal form of "law" Shari-ah.

Yes we could learn from the Russians! GET AMERICANS OUT OF THOSE GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRIES! BRING THEM HOME NOW!

Wall off the muslim wastelands and let them kill each other! That's what they do best!
Amen to that but looks like Obama will have us at War until 2012.

Obama is the problem and needs to be purged in 2012. Rest of his idiotbots in Congress must go in 2010.
Westley from Manchester

UK

#18 Dec 2, 2009
Mad Dog USN wrote:
<quoted text>
I think your neglecting a few minor details..
Soviet military doctrine in Afganistan is completely different from the US doctrine.
The Soviet doctrine was based almost entirely on conquer and subjugate. After failing that, they left
Remove any leadership that doesn't align itself with communism, set up a communist government and kill or imprison those that don't toe the line...
Russia made no attempt to establish any education or Afgan security forces.
There were no provincial reconstructions teams started by the soviets.
Russia made no attempt to start or lay the foundation for local
industry or establish any productive farming or produce any exportable commodities.(unless it was a commodity going back to Russia for nothing).
US led doctrine is doing all this..
Working to establish poppy alternative cash crops.
Such has potatos
http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc2004/poster...
http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/Article.796.a...
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.a...
http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser...
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1079190....
Poppycock. Pure propaganda

“oderint dum metuant”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#19 Dec 2, 2009
Westley from Manchester wrote:
<quoted text>Poppycock. Pure propaganda
I beg to differ, sir.
Westley from Manchester

UK

#20 Dec 2, 2009
Mad Dog USN wrote:
<quoted text>
I beg to differ, sir.
. You think USA+Co are ther to build a hospital and give the good people of Afganistan a alternative crop to sow!!!
Grow up. Its Empire mate,we passed you the batton in about 1946,and like good imperalists "we" have kept "our" (UK)nose in the trougth too boot.The political elites in both our countries need to ,give it up.The goal of a world led by the USA,(with UK in your back pocket) is gone forever. NB: Afgan for the Afgans. Occupation is a crime.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#21 Dec 2, 2009
Mad Dog USN wrote:
<quoted text>
I think your neglecting a few minor details..
Soviet military doctrine in Afganistan is completely different from the US doctrine.
The Soviet doctrine was based almost entirely on conquer and subjugate. After failing that, they left
Remove any leadership that doesn't align itself with communism, set up a communist government and kill or imprison those that don't toe the line...
Russia made no attempt to establish any education or Afgan security forces.
There were no provincial reconstructions teams started by the soviets.
Russia made no attempt to start or lay the foundation for local
industry or establish any productive farming or produce any exportable commodities.(unless it was a commodity going back to Russia for nothing).
US led doctrine is doing all this..
Working to establish poppy alternative cash crops.
Such has potatos
http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc2004/poster...
http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/Article.796.a...
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.a...
http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser...
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1079190....
I can't believe it! I agree with everything you said.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#22 Dec 2, 2009
Westley from Manchester wrote:
<quoted text>. You think USA+Co are ther to build a hospital and give the good people of Afganistan a alternative crop to sow!!!
Grow up. Its Empire mate,we passed you the batton in about 1946,and like good imperalists "we" have kept "our" (UK)nose in the trougth too boot.The political elites in both our countries need to ,give it up.The goal of a world led by the USA,(with UK in your back pocket) is gone forever. NB: Afgan for the Afgans. Occupation is a crime.
Did you not hear about the election we had in this country? Obama is now the president. Our motives are not to rule the world but to keep American safe. Obama is doing exactly the right thing.

“oderint dum metuant”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#23 Dec 2, 2009
Westley from Manchester wrote:
<quoted text>. You think USA+Co are ther to build a hospital and give the good people of Afganistan a alternative crop to sow!!!
Grow up. Its Empire mate,we passed you the batton in about 1946,and like good imperalists "we" have kept "our" (UK)nose in the trougth too boot.The political elites in both our countries need to ,give it up.The goal of a world led by the USA,(with UK in your back pocket) is gone forever. NB: Afgan for the Afgans. Occupation is a crime.
Please tell me kind sir, what countries have we colonized??

By definition colonizing or occupying means a Marshall law government set up and managed by the military..or occupying countries ambassador's

Security and Police all accomplished by the military.

I'm sorry ol chap I ain't seeing it...

An Empire does not let it's people vote or govern themselves...
Westley from Manchester

UK

#24 Dec 3, 2009
Mad Dog USN wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell me kind sir, what countries have we colonized??
By definition colonizing or occupying means a Marshall law government set up and managed by the military..or occupying countries ambassador's
Security and Police all accomplished by the military.
I'm sorry ol chap I ain't seeing it...
An Empire does not let it's people vote or govern themselves...
Get it right mate. I said EMPIRE. You (USA) wish to run the world. Espesially the bits with oil. And if it ain,t got oil then the bits that you want to run your oil/gas pipelines through. This may have been well and good when the natives only had bow and arrows or sharpened leaves,however....
OBL changed the rules. The cheeky buggers are fighting back and in a way that hurts!
You need to stop bombing every one, stop propping up all your corrupt regimes. Concentrate on USA, better still send the USMC and Army engineers to re-build New Orleans, and this time build a bigger dam.
I'll say again. Occupation is a crime. You cannot have an election under occupation, its a oxymoron
Jon24

Alexandria, VA

#25 Dec 3, 2009
Westley from Manchester wrote:
<quoted text>Get it right mate. I said EMPIRE. You (USA) wish to run the world. Espesially the bits with oil. And if it ain,t got oil then the bits that you want to run your oil/gas pipelines through. This may have been well and good when the natives only had bow and arrows or sharpened leaves,however....
OBL changed the rules. The cheeky buggers are fighting back and in a way that hurts!
You need to stop bombing every one, stop propping up all your corrupt regimes. Concentrate on USA, better still send the USMC and Army engineers to re-build New Orleans, and this time build a bigger dam.
I'll say again. Occupation is a crime. You cannot have an election under occupation, its a oxymoron
Oh, you are so right man, we stopped woman from voting local leaders into a parliment style govern.... Oh Wait we got woman to vote for the first time evah! You seem to think when you have troops in a country you subjugate the locals.. See Britian did and the Soviets surely did. US, not so much. If we did you would be answering to us now.

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