Alamo's ministry, 2 parents sue state

[Justice]

Roy, your post shows no ISP location. Do you live in Fouke?

[Roy Lehman]

Justice wrote:

Roy, your post shows no ISP location. Do you live in Fouke?

No in Tucson, AZ
Do you know what happened to Peter?

[Roy Lehman]

Still Another Ex Member wrote:

Who are you, Roy? Peter's bro.? Father? I had always liked Peter, by the way... Just sad that he is still there...

I'm Peter's brother. I regret encouraging him to go back. He was out for about 12 years.
I didn't realize those things about which I heard 20-30 years ago were true.

[Justice]

It is my understanding that Pete is still there and an active member. Since alamo's arrest, many of the members have scattered across the country in the child concealment efforts. Smaller skeleton crews remain on the Fouke and LA compounds, and in Texarkana, Oklahoma, Texas, New Jersey, New York, and other outposts.

I would recommend for starters that you contact PACA at [e-mail] for further assistance in your discovery attempts. They would have contact and access w/ more knowledgeable people concerning your search.

[Roy Lehman]

Justice wrote:

It is my understanding that Pete is still there and an active member. Since alamo's arrest, many of the members have scattered across the country in the child concealment efforts. Smaller skeleton crews remain on the Fouke and LA compounds, and in Texarkana, Oklahoma, Texas, New Jersey, New York, and other outposts.
I would recommend for starters that you contact PACA at [e-mail] for further assistance in your discovery attempts. They would have contact and access w/ more knowledgeable people concerning your search.

Thank you so much! Peter disconnected his cell phone about 2 years ago and when he does call the call id is blocked.
He refuses to tell me where he is.

[provo]

Peter was such a wonderful bro as I remember him 30+ years ago. Staying on did damage the members as Alamo weaved his web intensifying the mind tweak, defining the utter codependency and sucking many in as accomplices in illegal activities not unlike the blood in, blood out cosa nostra hook. Alamo insurance is having one over a barrel.

[Dyann PACA West- CA]

Roy Lehman wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm Peter's brother. I regret encouraging him to go back. He was out for about 12 years.
I didn't realize those things about which I heard 20-30 years ago were true.

We continue to pray for those who continue to be deceived. We want nothing more for them but to see the truth and come away from that trap.

I remember Pete as being a sweet, kind, and funny brother. Let us know how we can contact you if we hear anything... you can email us safely at <[e-mail]>

Your email address will be kept confidential.

[Dyann PACA West- CA]

Sorry, I didn't see justice's post above. And yeah, it's yahoo, not aol ;)

[Jimmy]

Tony Alamo’s Statements of Opinion

The Defendants use statements made by Tony Alamo as proof of the risk of harm to all children in the church. Americans can hold any set of beliefs no matter how controversial; what they can’t do is break the law. For example, there is a whole class of people that support the legalization of marijuana and take measures to try to change the law. As long as they aren’t distributing or using the drug, this belief cannot be held against them.

The First Amendment protects against the prosecution of thought crime. U.S. v. Balsys, 524 U.S. 666, 118 S.Ct. 2218 (1998). Similarly, the holding of a thought or belief cannot be used as the basis of removing children. Another act of furtherance of the belief is required. However Defendant’s makes no showing of these additional acts, and simply state that because the viewpoint is there, a child may be abused at some future date as a result of those views.

Tony Alamo may or may not hold a belief that girls should marry after puberty. His beliefs are constitutionally protected and irrelevant. The defendants make some unproven allegations that Alamo may practice his beliefs illegally. However, they fail to make any allegation neither that Krantz nor Seago have married an underage girl nor that they plan to allow the marriage of their daughters before they are of age. To the contrary, Seago has already forbidden the marriage of his daughter at age fourteen when she sought his permission to marry.8 And the Krantz daughters don’t fall into the “target age” as alleged by the department.

The Defendants openly claim that because Tony Alamo espouses and teaches certain beliefs, then all child members of the congregation are at some future risk of abuse based on these beliefs. This is an error in legal logic.

[provo]

The Alamo weapon of mass destruction oftimes times was his extreme arrogance of self righteousness, in concert with veiled threats. Viewpoints can be searched out as to how or where they are put into practice. The mere threat of an illegal weapon of mass destruction can be met with a preemptive strike for the societal greater good. See 'Shock and Awe' Iraq 2003.

[Modesto]

I don't think anybody's trying to bust Tony for "thought crime". Tony and others in his organization are accused by many of having sex with girls under 18 years old, some much younger.Some of the girls, though now adults, are said to have had children from these sexual unions and through dna testing and simple math it can be proven who the fathers are and when they had the impregnating sexual encounters with the kids. This is my understanding at least.Am I wrong? No "thought crime" charges there. The actual charges Tony will stand trial for are for allegedly transporting some of these children across state lines for sex.This must be proven.Again, no "thought crime" charges.Not sure what you are getting at Jimmy.Maybe you could explain.

[Dyann PACA West- CA]

Brilliantly put again, Mo.
I love how you get down to brass tacks. <3

[provo]

...and brass knuckles for TA!

[Jimmy]

found that stuff on HIS website

[PACA]

Jimmy wrote:

The Defendants openly claim that because Tony Alamo espouses and teaches certain beliefs, then all child members of the congregation are at some future risk of abuse based on these beliefs. This is an error in legal logic.

No this is history repeating itself. How many generations are there now that can testify to the beatings and underage marriages? As long as those parents are going to follow Alamo, they will follow his teachings or be kicked out. You know that is the way it works.

[Dyann PACA West- CA]

There is no "Legal Error" in removing children (and preventing their return) from a cult that actively rapes children of single-digit age in the name of "religion.

There is also no "Legal Error" in removing children and (preventing their return) from a cult who's Leader ORDERS their bloody beatings in the name of "religion".

[Dyann PACA West- CA]

The Seago/Krantz children are at risk of these offenses, therefore the DHS is LEGALLY MANDATED to remove them (and the others in hiding from the law) from that risk.

The Seago/Krantz's have proven they will go to any length (proven by their defying court orders) to keep their children under the precepts of Alamo Cult Practices.

Ask yourselves (and them) WHY? Why would you NOT want to remove your children to safety? Why would you allow your children to be pawns of the pervert? Why wouldn't you want them to be safe?

Do they have such short memories? Did they forget what they have witnessed or do they justify the crimes Alamo preaches and enforces through Kolbeck and the other 'enforcers', INCLUDING Sharon Alamo????

[provo]

There are valleys of decision for everyone, of whether they want to go over the edge or not. I recall reading on factnet three years ago, of a witnesses' description of Sharon Alamo in that day in court back in 1993/4 (wish I could pinpoint the exact post) where this witness described Sharon of that day very brow beaten by her then husband Alamo, and torn, looking almost dazed of what to do, or say. Lie, or tell the truth is everyones' valley of decision under pressure, and one is never in too deep to choose to do the right thing, instead of going completely over the edge on a continuous lie. Even murderers have divulged the secrets of their misdeeds to provide any closure on the very day of their execution, for some hope of redemption. There is going to be a trial. What's done is done, now it is all about how each handles their participation and involvement.