UMBC community offers views on ROTC proposal

Full story: Baltimore Sun 37
The faculty senate at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County voted this week in favor of establishing a permanent ROTC site on the Catonsville campus, but dozens of members of the campus community ... Full Story
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christopher snyder

Essex, MD

#21 May 15, 2008
no offense, but really what has the military ever protected, it has never protected my rights, Mr. bush takes them away with his military, the military gets treated like crap and taken for granted, look at the past military conflicts all have been imperialistic campaigns for natural resources, or to show that if you oppose the us in your ideological you get told that you have to listen to the US. We have 200 military bases in other countries and want to put up missile shields in other countries. WE are now fighting leaders we once supported in proxy wars. THe public education system allowed me to see throught the BS nationalist propaganda that the govt spews every day. NO doubt i don't trust the military or the govt, look where they have taken this country, used all our tax money on foreign wars to do what?? we could have used that money for the own war we have here in the states 100,000 people dying from gun violence each year. It's pathetic you people think the govt protects our rights.
christopher snyder

Essex, MD

#22 May 15, 2008
we understand why UMBC even considers the proposals, they will get tax incentives and financial support from the govt, and the military will get another bastion of support. What's even worse is that some of you people think the military has given me a right do anything, sorry i don't trust them after they enslaved africans and killed all the native americans, oh yea and interned the japanese, while actively fighting for the jews, then establishing a state called israel, after 2000 years. Sorry if i'm mad at the govt for inciting muslims to radicalize by their own misguided policies.
Grogus

Washington, DC

#23 May 15, 2008
christopher snyder wrote:
we understand why UMBC even considers the proposals, they will get tax incentives and financial support from the govt, and the military will get another bastion of support. What's even worse is that some of you people think the military has given me a right do anything, sorry i don't trust them after they enslaved africans and killed all the native americans, oh yea and interned the japanese, while actively fighting for the jews, then establishing a state called israel, after 2000 years. Sorry if i'm mad at the govt for inciting muslims to radicalize by their own misguided policies.
Yet you continue to live here and take advantage of these atrocities. Why don't you protest these actions by turning your back on them and moving back to the country from where your ancestors came? I didn't think so.
Dave

Baltimore, MD

#24 May 15, 2008
Well obviously I touched on the nerves of a few of the 60's boys. No, gentlmen drugs were rampant in the 40's and 50's .... the 60 culture didn't start the usage of recreational drug use. And, of course we all know that drugs hasn't caused the USA any crime problems. I just made that up. Guess all of the drug related murders in Baltimore City didn't occur. Stupid, I simply stated that the 60's was the start of drug usage and don't tell me it didn't also start the sexual freedom movement. That didn't occur right?
Fed Hill

Baltimore, MD

#25 May 15, 2008
Snyder,
-there are roughly 30000 gun related deaths each year in the US, not 100000; and of those usually half or more are suicides
-the US military never actively fought for the jews nor established the state of Israel
Fed Hill

Baltimore, MD

#26 May 15, 2008
-Actually recreational drug use dates back centuries if not longer.
-the counterculture use of marijuana and psychedelics can hardly be blamed for crime caused by the trade in heroin and cocaine (which is caused by the immense profits caused by drug prohibition not recreational drug use)
-far more crimes and deaths are alcohol related than drug related
-who cares about sexual freedom? kind of a biological need
Lets go back to the 50's when everyone respected authority, women knew their place and everything was segregated. sound's like good times.
Evansville

United States

#27 May 15, 2008
People still cling to the myth that somehow America was this perfect society before the 60's?

Why not? People still cling to the myth that the 60's were a golden era that ushered in all that is right with the world.
Mike

Arlington, VA

#28 May 15, 2008
Mr. Snyder, I want to be polite. Maybe you are just trying to get a rise out of people on here. But when you say "look at the past military conflicts all have been imperialistic campaigns for natural resources, or to show that if you oppose the us in your ideological you get told that you have to listen to the US" and "some of you people think the military has given me a right do anything, sorry i don't trust them after they enslaved africans and killed all the native americans, oh yea and interned the japanese, while actively fighting for the jews, then establishing a state called israel, after 2000 years."

I dont even know where to start. Again, trying to be polite, but have you ever read a single history book? Or were they all written by a corrupt military govt? Let's look at past military conflicts: The American Revolution was fought for representative government and set off democratic revolutions across the world. The Civil War was fought by the US military to correct Amreica's great sin...slavery. World War II was when we were attacked by dictatorships who sought to establish empires in Asia and Europe. I will admit that conflicts since then have been wars of choice. But you have to look at what the govt knew. In 1950, the Communists were openly trying to spread totalinarianism around the world. China had fallen and Truman had to draw the line somewhere. He drew it in Korea. and if you look, Communist advancement stopped in Asia. Vietnam was another choice to stop Communism from advancing. There were many mistakes made, but Kennedy (Mr. Democrat), LBJ and Nixon thought it was worth fighting to stop the Communists. The US never gained any resources from those conflicts.

Now you feel that the military has never given you any rights. This country, the constitution and your rights were won by the military. Without the Continental Army, the authors of the Declaration of Independence would have been hung as traitors and British rule would have gone on for probably another century. If not for the military, blacks would have been enslaved for decades more. If not for the military, Japan and Germany would have created empires and controlled great resources. Eventually, they may have come after us. If not for the military, would the civil rights movement had the muscle to integrate the schools and places of the south? If not for the military, then the fringe groups that you obviously fear would hold sway like they do in countries without a military. Without the military, the communists would have carried out their stated goal of global domination. And without the military, radical islamic terrorists would be able to operate at will and impose their totalitarianism anywhere they wanted around the world.

The military is not perfect. I was a proud member. But it is the closest institution in this world to a complete meritocracy. You advance based on your abilities. It is more color-blind and gender blind than any institution in this country and that includes your academic institutions. So please believe what you want. But do a little independent research before you spout off on the military.
Greg Wyant

Bel Air, MD

#29 May 16, 2008
Mike wrote:
Mr. Snyder, I want to be polite. Maybe you are just trying to get a rise out of people on here. But when you say "look at the past military conflicts all have been imperialistic campaigns for natural resources, or to show that if you oppose the us in your ideological you get told that you have to listen to the US" and "some of you people think the military has given me a right do anything, sorry i don't trust them after they enslaved africans and killed all the native americans, oh yea and interned the japanese, while actively fighting for the jews, then establishing a state called israel, after 2000 years."
I dont even know where to start. Again, trying to be polite, but have you ever read a single history book? Or were they all written by a corrupt military govt? Let's look at past military conflicts: The American Revolution was fought for representative government and set off democratic revolutions across the world. The Civil War was fought by the US military to correct Amreica's great sin...slavery. World War II was when we were attacked by dictatorships who sought to establish empires in Asia and Europe. I will admit that conflicts since then have been wars of choice. But you have to look at what the govt knew. In 1950, the Communists were openly trying to spread totalinarianism around the world. China had fallen and Truman had to draw the line somewhere. He drew it in Korea. and if you look, Communist advancement stopped in Asia. Vietnam was another choice to stop Communism from advancing. There were many mistakes made, but Kennedy (Mr. Democrat), LBJ and Nixon thought it was worth fighting to stop the Communists. The US never gained any resources from those conflicts.
Now you feel that the military has never given you any rights. This country, the constitution and your rights were won by the military. Without the Continental Army, the authors of the Declaration of Independence would have been hung as traitors and British rule would have gone on for probably another century. If not for the military, blacks would have been enslaved for decades more. If not for the military, Japan and Germany would have created empires and controlled great resources. Eventually, they may have come after us. If not for the military, would the civil rights movement had the muscle to integrate the schools and places of the south? If not for the military, then the fringe groups that you obviously fear would hold sway like they do in countries without a military. Without the military, the communists would have carried out their stated goal of global domination. And without the military, radical islamic terrorists would be able to operate at will and impose their totalitarianism anywhere they wanted around the world.
The military is not perfect. I was a proud member. But it is the closest institution in this world to a complete meritocracy. You advance based on your abilities. It is more color-blind and gender blind than any institution in this country and that includes your academic institutions. So please believe what you want. But do a little independent research before you spout off on the military.
Well said, my friend. Thank you for your service.
Greg Wyant

Bel Air, MD

#30 May 16, 2008
christopher snyder wrote:
we understand why UMBC even considers the proposals, they will get tax incentives and financial support from the govt, and the military will get another bastion of support. What's even worse is that some of you people think the military has given me a right do anything, sorry i don't trust them after they enslaved africans and killed all the native americans, oh yea and interned the japanese, while actively fighting for the jews, then establishing a state called israel, after 2000 years. Sorry if i'm mad at the govt for inciting muslims to radicalize by their own misguided policies.
Mr. Snyder,
I challenge you to travel abroad and voice your anti-government sentiments there and see what happens. I'm not talking about European countries, I'm talking African countries or those in southwest Asia. I guarantee you will return with a new appreciate of your rights and freedoms, if you return at all. Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, these freedoms are protected by our military. Support for the current wars is unrelated to support for military personnel. Is not their choice when and where to fight. But it is their duty to protect this nation, and they do an awesome job.
Greg Wyant

Bel Air, MD

#31 May 16, 2008
christopher snyder wrote:
Mr. bush takes them away with his military
What military action has taken away any of your right? Please ellaborate.
christopher snyder wrote:
the military gets treated like crap and taken for granted
No argument here. I would actually consider this a pro-military sentiment. They do deserve better treatment. But isn't it amazing how there are dedicated men and women who continue to volunteer for and even dedicate their entire lives to service despite their poor treatment? And they do this in service to this nation. What does that say about their dedication to the preservation of freedom?
christopher snyder wrote:
Sorry if i'm mad at the govt for inciting muslims to radicalize by their own misguided policies.
Please explain this statement. How can you blaim the US Government for radical Muslims?
christopher snyder

Essex, MD

#32 May 16, 2008
haha, this thread has gotten way off topic, why can't people who post on here stay on topic, instead of marginalizing someone's opinion by calling them a hippy from the 60's? and secondly mike, you are right, i should revise the imperialist military conflicts from 1950 onward, but wait, i would be forgetting the imperialist spanish american war and the seizure of the phillipines, and yea the us might not have gained any resources from these conflicts but it did gain capital and markets from and economic standpoint, which is more valuable in a capitalist world. also, the military gives you a facade of protecting your rights. They say they protect my rights but how so?, how about my own right to petition the US government, oh yea they take that away by saying i need a permit to do that. they want to control control and control.
but back to the broadeer topic of the ROTC cause that is what we are supposed to be discussing...THe military doesn't need to be on UMBC. The military has plenty of other places to recruit people from, why do they need to invade colleges to get the best and brightest minds...the best and brightest should be focusing on peace, justice, equality, not imperialist war campaigns.
christopher snyder

Essex, MD

#33 May 16, 2008
well the us govt is to blame for the current situation with radical muslims.....the current continued support for israel, the illegal invasion of Iraq, and we support the ring afghan mujaheeden during the soviet afghan war and they used the weapons on us when we invaded. 9/11 was horrible but the rest of the world has dealt with terrorism before without invading other countries, most of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi arabian, we are invading saudi arabia are we, we didn't invade oklahoma during the unabomber domestic terror attacks, you cant invade other countries just because of a terrorist network, you can capture the terrorist but subjecting other countries to war because of a terrorist network is absurd. "thewaronterror" is absurd in and of itself, it just allowed bush to usurp govt money to create more bureacracy...that is bureacracy taht doesn't help, to be spend on DHS etc, when that money should be spent on domestic social problems in the US.
and yes bush has taken away my rights, he can put anyone domestic and foreign in guantanamo bay or any other prison without due process or habeus corpus based on his own executive discretion. he has hijacked the govt and expanded the executive branch to unknown powers. The military has stood and meant different things for different people at different times. The military to me and most people is definitely not the same as someone who participated in ww2...obviously. But my generation and the baby boomers are trying to stop the violence prone state from expanding.
anon

Waldorf, MD

#34 May 17, 2008
I think it is a given that the US must have a military presence. Do you want the military leaders to receive their educations from military arenas only, or from educational institutions that expose them to diversity of thought,to include those liberal freaks that teach at UMBC.

“Fundie SMACKER..”

Since: Mar 08

Sunshine city, St Petersburg

#35 May 17, 2008
Mike wrote:
Edited to fit..........
The military is not perfect. I was a proud member. But it is the closest institution in this world to a complete meritocracy. You advance based on your abilities. It is more color-blind and gender blind than any institution in this country and that includes your academic institutions. So please believe what you want. But do a little independent research before you spout off on the military.
I agree mostly with your post but with a dissimilar approach. I understand some of mr snyders assertions and as the article also stated there are good points on both sides.
But I must correct a mis-statement. After spending 22 yrs in the Corps, the military is NOT more color blind or gender blind.
Our current military consists of very educated and outstanding folks. The issue is that these current troops are commanded from the top by a number of antiquated leaders that have not 'advanced' with the modern world.
There are deep seated practices that are so old many of our more advanced thinkers (thats a good thing to have in the military)move on.
Your statement about being 'not perfect' is correct. But we need to update the military to today's standards and take it into the 12st century. Unfortunately, there are those who play the political game for power and prestige at the expense of leadership. That my friends is very dangerous.
DSS

Odenton, MD

#36 May 18, 2008
I was wondering if the folks who are so opposed to the ROTC having a permanent location on the UMBC campus have given any thought to the presence of the credit card companies on campus who prey on the young minds of the student body. If you want to see potential damage being done to young people, look no farther than the big banks hoping to land a few (or a lot) of free spenders who are willing to mortgage their financial future for a few impulse purchases today. I'd worry more about CitiBank than the Marine Corp.
DSS

Odenton, MD

#37 May 18, 2008
Chris,
Please get your prescription refilled immediately.
Love you, Mom
christopher snyder wrote:
well the us govt is to blame for the current situation with radical muslims.....the current continued support for israel, the illegal invasion of Iraq, and we support the ring afghan mujaheeden during the soviet afghan war and they used the weapons on us when we invaded. 9/11 was horrible but the rest of the world has dealt with terrorism before without invading other countries, most of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi arabian, we are invading saudi arabia are we, we didn't invade oklahoma during the unabomber domestic terror attacks, you cant invade other countries just because of a terrorist network, you can capture the terrorist but subjecting other countries to war because of a terrorist network is absurd. "thewaronterror" is absurd in and of itself, it just allowed bush to usurp govt money to create more bureacracy...that is bureacracy taht doesn't help, to be spend on DHS etc, when that money should be spent on domestic social problems in the US.
and yes bush has taken away my rights, he can put anyone domestic and foreign in guantanamo bay or any other prison without due process or habeus corpus based on his own executive discretion. he has hijacked the govt and expanded the executive branch to unknown powers. The military has stood and meant different things for different people at different times. The military to me and most people is definitely not the same as someone who participated in ww2...obviously. But my generation and the baby boomers are trying to stop the violence prone state from expanding.

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