Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43862
Nov 21, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
(Gen. 9:6), "If one sheds the blood of THE MAN (Ha Adam), by man shall his own blood be shed."
HughBe --Cite the text where God told Cain or Adam that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER. The fact is they were TOLD otherwise it would NOT have been a SIN.

Eric---(Gen. 9:6), "If one sheds the blood of THE MAN (Ha Adam), by man shall his own blood be shed."

HughBe--- Please read my comment again. Your words are a JOKE. Genesis 9? when was Abel killed? Try Genesis 4
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43863
Nov 21, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
(Gen. 9:6), "If one sheds the blood of THE MAN (Ha Adam), by man shall his own blood be shed."
Eric, you were asked to "Cite the text where God told CAIN or ADAM that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER"

You cited a passage,see above, where God spoke with NOAH. Your twisting will not change who God spoke to and the massive time difference.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#43864
Nov 21, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe --Cite the text where God told Cain or Adam that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER. The fact is they were TOLD otherwise it would NOT have been a SIN.
Eric---(Gen. 9:6), "If one sheds the blood of THE MAN (Ha Adam), by man shall his own blood be shed."
HughBe--- Please read my comment again. Your words are a JOKE. Genesis 9? when was Abel killed? Try Genesis 4
rabbee: well since G-D always gave Moshe TheTorah in morning of day three, i would say they should have known about it by the end of day six.

and so far, there has been no difference. since the last time - G-D gave this same story, and this time G-D giving it again. if anything all you and yo mama, have only gotten worse. so that is less than, no improvement at all.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43865
Nov 21, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric, you were asked to "Cite the text where God told CAIN or ADAM that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER"
You cited a passage,see above, where God spoke with NOAH. Your twisting will not change who God spoke to and the massive time difference.
Hugh, you have to understand what the Noahide laws are. They were directions unto Noah and his family that pre-date the 613 as basic principles. The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed. Therefore, one of the Noahide principles is not to murder.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43876
Nov 21, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Hugh, you have to understand what the Noahide laws are. They were directions unto Noah and his family that pre-date the 613 as basic principles. The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed. Therefore, one of the Noahide principles is not to murder.
HughBe----Cite the text where God told CAIN or ADAM that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER"

Eric--The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed

HughBe---you have to understand that my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER.

The law against MURDER etc. did NOT start with Noah 1000 years later. Almost a 1000 years earlier Cain was held accountable
for MURDER by God.

You must also understand that although it is not recorded in the scriptures the law regarding clean and unclean animals existed from the START of history and hence Abel knew what animals to sacrfice to God.

The same applies to the law against men having sex with men. The story of Lot tells us that there was an UNWRITTEN law of God against homosexuality.

The same can be said about the story of Joseph and Potiphar's wife. This story tells that there was an UNWRITTEN law of God against adultery.

Abraham, the FRIEND of God KNEW God's WAY which are His commandments. God said so, do you ACCEPT God's words?

Understand, the fact that something is not recorded does not mean that it was not known. Actions speak.
toadmann

Pittsburgh, PA

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#43877
Nov 21, 2012
 
youtube.com/watch... ………Elf Ranting I say,,,
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#43880
Nov 21, 2012
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Nut is a pretty good description.
(Once again, please find a place in your heart to consider and accept my deepest and most sincere apologies for replying to you)
Brother, I do not have personal grudge against you.

I know there are people with different personalities on this thread. There are people who do not know things and are frank in admitting that they do not know it.

Then there are people who act like bullies, threatening one and threatening other and trying to shout down their correspondent with abuses, insults, slangs and soft porno graphic messages.

And then there are "scholars" who have "selected memories".... they are "economical with the truth" and remember only that bit which they need at that particular juncture.

Once you classify, in which class your correspondent is, it becomes easy to deal with him or her.

I deal with different class of people in different ways.... may be you also have some system of classifying your correspondents.

Personally, I do not have grudge against any one, I am not on these threads to exchange hate, hatred and have personal enmity.

So, be rest assures, for me keeping any personal grudge with you.

As regards "truth content" in what we post to each other, there is another power who is watching every words which we write to each other. Let Him decide.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#43881
Nov 21, 2012
 

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Lecture 7. The message of the Holy Prophet of Islam part-46

Clear Teachings of islam:

Compare all this to the teaching of Islam Here you will find everything clearly defined and in full detail. Clear and complete instructions are avail able for Salat (the five time prayer), for fasting, for Hajj (the Pilgrimage to Makkah), etc.

The manners and conditions for performing these and other Islamic rites have been fully described, such as the prescribed times for the daily prayers, the times for keeping and breaking the fast, the time for the performance of Hajj. In addition,
special prayers and supplications, the remembrance and glorification of Almighty Allah, how to turn to Him in all kinds of needs, how to ask His forgiveness, confession of sins and seeking His pardon and mercy—all these have been taught in a very simple and attractive manner so that the bond of worship and love is established between Allah and His servants.

These teachings provide nourishment for the soul of man, uplifting him and uniting him with his Creator and Sustainer, They are the embodiment of the spirit of religion.

Another aspect of human actions is their mutual dealings and the rules of government. This part of human endeavor has been dealt with in detail in the message of Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him). These laws have been retained to a great extent in Prophet Muhammad’s Shariah (Divine laws revealed to him).

However, they are not as severe, and they have been raised from a narrow national sphere to an all embracing universal level. As their new status required some changes, new components have been added which were lacking in the old laws. For instance, there were no laws regarding divorce and its related matters except one or two rules in the Bible. However, a universal code of life like Islam needed to provide complete guidance in government and social affairs.

Christ’s message did not include these, so the Christian nations had to borrow from the laws of the pagan Greeks and Romans. In Prophet Muhammad’s message, the Divine laws completely cover every aspect of the social and political needs of a civilized society and lay down fundamental principles which have ever since enabled the Muslim scholars to find out viable solutions to all kinds of problems and varying human needs over hundreds of years.

Islam’s Legacy:

Islam has dominated the world for over a thousand years and it has established numerous civilized and stable governments in all parts of the world. All these governments successfully applied and followed the Islamic law. This world has yet to present a better system.

The third aspect of human conduct is their moral behaviour. In the Torah we find some guidelines regarding morality consisting of seven fundamental principles— one is of positive nature like obeying the parents and the rest are negative like:“don’t commit murder, theft, and adultery; don’t give false evidence against your neighbour; don’t covet your neighbour’s wife, or his wealth.” In the Bible, more or less the same commandments have been repeated with the instruction to love others in a general sort of way.

(Contd.)
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43882
Nov 21, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe----Cite the text where God told CAIN or ADAM that it was a sin or wrong to MURDER"
Eric--The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed
HughBe---you have to understand that my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER.
The law against MURDER etc. did NOT start with Noah 1000 years later. Almost a 1000 years earlier Cain was held accountable
for MURDER by God.
Hugh, exactly my point. This law against murder pre-existed the Exodus. Therefore, it is included in the Noahide principles as to laws in affect during Noah's time. All you are doing is building my point that murder is one of those laws that apply to Gentiles and is a prerequisite to Gentiles coming on to HaShem.

It is the post Exodus laws that are not required.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

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#43883
Nov 21, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
Lecture 7. The message of the Holy Prophet of Islam part-46
Clear Teachings of islam:
Compare all this to the teaching of Islam Here you will find everything clearly defined and in full detail. Clear and complete instructions are avail able for Salat (the five time prayer), for fasting, for Hajj (the Pilgrimage to Makkah), etc.
The manners and conditions for performing these and other Islamic rites have been fully described, such as the prescribed times for the daily prayers, the times for keeping and breaking the fast, the time for the performance of Hajj. In addition,
special prayers and supplications, the remembrance and glorification of Almighty Allah, how to turn to Him in all kinds of needs, how to ask His forgiveness, confession of sins and seeking His pardon and mercy—all these have been taught in a very simple and attractive manner so that the bond of worship and love is established between Allah and His servants.
These teachings provide nourishment for the soul of man, uplifting him and uniting him with his Creator and Sustainer, They are the embodiment of the spirit of religion.
Another aspect of human actions is their mutual dealings and the rules of government. This part of human endeavor has been dealt with in detail in the message of Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him). These laws have been retained to a great extent in Prophet Muhammad’s Shariah (Divine laws revealed to him).
However, they are not as severe, and they have been raised from a narrow national sphere to an all embracing universal level. As their new status required some changes, new components have been added which were lacking in the old laws. For instance, there were no laws regarding divorce and its related matters except one or two rules in the Bible. However, a universal code of life like Islam needed to provide complete guidance in government and social affairs.
Christ’s message did not include these, so the Christian nations had to borrow from the laws of the pagan Greeks and Romans. In Prophet Muhammad’s message, the Divine laws completely cover every aspect of the social and political needs of a civilized society and lay down fundamental principles which have ever since enabled the Muslim scholars to find out viable solutions to all kinds of problems and varying human needs over hundreds of years.
Islam’s Legacy:
Islam has dominated the world for over a thousand years and it has established numerous civilized and stable governments in all parts of the world. All these governments successfully applied and followed the Islamic law. This world has yet to present a better system.
The third aspect of human conduct is their moral behaviour. In the Torah we find some guidelines regarding morality consisting of seven fundamental principles— one is of positive nature like obeying the parents and the rest are negative like:“don’t commit murder, theft, and adultery; don’t give false evidence against your neighbour; don’t covet your neighbour’s wife, or his wealth.” In the Bible, more or less the same commandments have been repeated with the instruction to love others in a general sort of way.
(Contd.)
FREAKSHOW...I told you before that ISLAM is radical and conducts war and hatreds. Islam should have been dismembered during the Crusades. Catholic Dogma has sentenced ISLAM to HELL. You Palestinians cause war and conflict. ISRAEL RULES.....how dare you war-mongering FREAKSHOWS touch our pupils? ISLAM is BAD.
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#43885
Nov 22, 2012
 
TJ Monk wrote:
<quoted text>
FREAKSHOW...I told you before that ISLAM is radical and conducts war and hatreds. Islam should have been dismembered during the Crusades. Catholic Dogma has sentenced ISLAM to HELL. You Palestinians cause war and conflict. ISRAEL RULES.....how dare you war-mongering FREAKSHOWS touch our pupils? ISLAM is BAD.
You are right, the Crusaders came with the idea to bury Islam and Muslims in the dust.... but unfortunately it were they who were buried in the dust!!

There is some one who is "More Powerful" than those Crusaders and Dooms Day Prophesiers about Islam.

You continue your Tirade, may be you could prove true, once in a Million Years!!
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43886
Nov 22, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Hugh, exactly my point. This law against murder pre-existed the Exodus. Therefore, it is included in the Noahide principles as to laws in affect during Noah's time. All you are doing is building my point that murder is one of those laws that apply to Gentiles and is a prerequisite to Gentiles coming on to HaShem.
It is the post Exodus laws that are not required.
Eric-- So these 7 principles are what Noah, Abraham, and Isaac followed.

HughBe--- Correct and MUCH more.

Eric--Prove it

HughBe--- Thank you for the opportunity to do so.

Eric--The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed

HughBe---you have to understand that my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER.
The law against MURDER etc. did NOT start with Noah 1000 years later

Eric--This law against murder pre-existed the Exodus.

HughBe---"my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER."

Eric---It is the POST Exodus laws that are not required.

HughBe--- Surely a new twist. We were NOT talking about POST Exodus. You wanted proof that the laws existed BEFORE Noah and I have given them.

By the way BEFORE Noah is over 1000 years before the exodus.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43887
Nov 22, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric-- So these 7 principles are what Noah, Abraham, and Isaac followed.
HughBe--- Correct and MUCH more.
Eric--Prove it
HughBe--- Thank you for the opportunity to do so.
Eric--The question is what commandments existed, past or present, at the time of Noah. The law against murder so existed
HughBe---you have to understand that my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER.
The law against MURDER etc. did NOT start with Noah 1000 years later
Eric--This law against murder pre-existed the Exodus.
HughBe---"my point is that the LAWS existed from the start and that is why Cain was guilty of MURDER."
Eric---It is the POST Exodus laws that are not required.
HughBe--- Surely a new twist. We were NOT talking about POST Exodus. You wanted proof that the laws existed BEFORE Noah and I have given them.
By the way BEFORE Noah is over 1000 years before the exodus.
Yes, you are correct. I mispoke. I allowed two discussions to go on at once and I mispoke between them.

If you go back, however to he first discussion on Noahide laws, there are but 7, maybe 8.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43888
Nov 22, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are correct. I mispoke. I allowed two discussions to go on at once and I mispoke between them.
If you go back, however to he first discussion on Noahide laws, there are but 7, maybe 8.
List your 7 or 8 and in doing so if any of them are categories e.g. sexual prohibitions list the components as they appear in the 613.

Note, when you list them as they appear in the 613 you will get much more than your 7.

Besides all of this go back to my many posts above and you will see others. These too can be expanded.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43889
Nov 22, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are correct. I mispoke. I allowed two discussions to go on at once and I mispoke between them.
If you go back, however to he first discussion on Noahide laws, there are but 7, maybe 8.
Eric-- I allowed two discussions to go on at once

HughBe--- As you know WE were not having the other discussion, so who were you having it with?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43890
Nov 22, 2012
 
Oh Eric, please list the elements in the following meaning SPECIFY the rules involved.

"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"

Note what God said about Abraham. Now list the laws, commandments etc.

Prove that most of the 613 are not there so list them.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43891
Nov 22, 2012
 
later, got to go to deal with someone.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43892
Nov 22, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric-- I allowed two discussions to go on at once
HughBe--- As you know WE were not having the other discussion, so who were you having it with?
So be it. I thought you had mellowed enough to have a civil discussion. So be it.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#43893
Nov 22, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
So be it. I thought you had mellowed enough to have a civil discussion. So be it.
TWO hours ago I made 3 posts not including the farewell one. Now, the only one that you have responded to is the inconsequential one and you did that in a manner that reminded me that you are a sly old fox.

All I asked for in that post was for you to identify the other party to your other discussion and based on that you took the opportunity to be yourself when you spoke of MELLOWED.

Anyhow you clearly missed my posts of substance and so here they are.

Post 1

List your 7 or 8 and in doing so if any of them are categories e.g. sexual prohibitions list the components as they appear in the 613.

Note, when you list them as they appear in the 613 you will get much more than your 7.

Besides all of this go back to my many posts above and you will see others. These too can be expanded.

----------
Post 2

Oh Eric, please list the elements in the following meaning SPECIFY the rules involved.

"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"

Note what God said about Abraham. Now list the laws, commandments etc.

Prove that most of the 613 are not there so list them.
Eric

Addison, IL

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#43894
Nov 22, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
TWO hours ago I made 3 posts not including the farewell one. Now, the only one that you have responded to is the inconsequential one and you did that in a manner that reminded me that you are a sly old fox.
All I asked for in that post was for you to identify the other party to your other discussion and based on that you took the opportunity to be yourself when you spoke of MELLOWED.
Anyhow you clearly missed my posts of substance and so here they are.
Post 1
List your 7 or 8 and in doing so if any of them are categories e.g. sexual prohibitions list the components as they appear in the 613.
Note, when you list them as they appear in the 613 you will get much more than your 7.
Besides all of this go back to my many posts above and you will see others. These too can be expanded.
----------
Post 2
Oh Eric, please list the elements in the following meaning SPECIFY the rules involved.
"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"
Note what God said about Abraham. Now list the laws, commandments etc.
Prove that most of the 613 are not there so list them.
You said we were not having a discussion. So be it.

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