Who do you support for Governor in Oh...
Old Guy

Mason, OH

#24901 Feb 2, 2014
mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
First, Intelligent Design isn't Creationism or a religion. You would do well to educate yourself on this subject.
How did you educate yourself on this topic? You seem quite sure of yourself, yet I don't think you've had much formal education in science at all. Your views seemed informed by a conservative religious orthodoxy and not science. Why don't you point me to a scientific source that can hopefully explain your point of view better than you?

I'll do the same:

"Intelligent design (ID) is a form of creationism presented by its proponents as a theory that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection." It is a version of the theological argument from design for the existence of God presented as "an evidence-based scientific theory about life's origins" rather than "a religious-based idea".

The leading proponents of this version of the argument are associated with the Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank based in the United States, and believe the designer to be the Christian deity. Their concepts of irreducible complexity and specified complexity propose that certain biological features are too complex to be the result of natural processes, and proponents therefore conclude that these features are evidence of design. The scientific community considers intelligent design a pseudoscience because it lacks empirical support and offers no tenable hypotheses. Detailed scientific examination has rebutted the claims that evolutionary explanations are inadequate, and this premise of intelligent design, that evidence against evolution constitutes evidence for design, has been criticized as a false dichotomy. From the outset, ID proponents have sought to overturn the methodological naturalism inherent in modern science, proposing that it be replaced by "theistic realism" or "theistic science" in which ID presents a broadly theistic understanding of nature."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_desi...

Since: Jan 13

Lexington, KY

#24902 Feb 2, 2014
So if this was to be taught in schools how would they present it, what would the lesson plans be, educational tools, etc.
Old Guy

Mason, OH

#24903 Feb 2, 2014
mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe the creation story as told in the bible.
Since you believe the Biblical creation story, maybe you can clear something up for me. When it says in Genesis 1:3: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light", what was the source of that light? I ask this question because Genesis goes on to say that the Sun and stars weren't created until the 4th day.

"13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
woo-boy

Van Wert, OH

#24904 Feb 2, 2014
mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
You and chimpy keep using popes to influence my opinions. You really couldn't pick a group of people less influential, except maybe democrats. I have no use for the catholic religion. They may believe in the same God as I do, and in Christ as his son, but that's basically where the similarities end. I don't pray to Mary and a bunch of saints, and I don't ask a priest for forgiveness as though he's God. That's basically paganism.
I believe the creation story as told in the bible. But I believe the earth is older than that. It was made before the 1st day of creation. It was without form and void, and it was covered with water. I think it's odd that the earth was so chaotic ... seemingly unlike how God created everything else that followed. So, who knows what happened before Adam's race, or what lived here before then. Maybe a flood or Ice Age wiped everything out, and it was left a mess.
That reminds of a quote that Mark Twain put out there about the bible:

"So you believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards,witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones who need help?" Oh yeah, how do you split a sea in half?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#24905 Feb 2, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep your weird, middle eastern and now corporate sponsored religion away from the American children.
or what?
Canton

Canton, OH

#24906 Feb 2, 2014
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
or what?
Or we'll be seeing you on To Catch a Predator.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#24907 Feb 2, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Or we'll be seeing you on To Catch a Predator.
another low ratings show.....never heard of it.

I am not worried.

Trayvonius Martinez

“Seven Days In May”

Since: Oct 13

Hilliard, OH

#24908 Feb 2, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow...after stammering "Mission Accomplished", you really want to take it there? Oh, and...how many US soldiers died because Obama sent them off to attack the wrong country? Bet you were as quiet as a church mouse through all that. Also, could you go ahead and give us a link to the "coalition of 'Blacks for Obama'" thing you were talking about? Bet you can't.
When are you going to apologize to "XYZ"?
http://l.barackobama.com/african-americans/
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24909 Feb 2, 2014
Old Guy,

If you aren't able to defend your views about evolution, just say so, and we'll end our discussion. Otherwise, don't ignore legitimate scientific arguments I've made. If the theory of evolution is sound, you shouldn't have any trouble shutting me down quite handily with just the facts supporting it ... especially since you've had formal training in science.

If you want to learn about ID, I would suggest an ID website. The following page will not only explain the theory, but also how proponents think it should/should not be taught in public school.
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/files...

Many IDists believe that it shouldn't be taught in schools. They would be happy if evolution was just taught objectively, rather than as a fact. I, on the other hand, think both theories should be explained.
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24910 Feb 2, 2014
woo-boy wrote:
That reminds of a quote that Mark Twain put out there about the bible:
"So you believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards,witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones who need help?" Oh yeah, how do you split a sea in half?
Old Guy seems to be unable to answer a simple question about the creation of the universe and evolution. Maybe you'll have better luck. Here we go ...

Based on the first 2 laws of thermodynamics, there should be no matter or energy in existence at all, and if there was which is impossible -- it would be incapable of randomly achieving higher and higher degrees of order and complexity. Why do you believe the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to the creation of the universe and evolution?

If you don't have any guesses, maybe you can find a Mark Twain quote about it or something.
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24911 Feb 2, 2014
joanna50 wrote:
So if this was to be taught in schools how would they present it, what would the lesson plans be, educational tools, etc.
I don't know, joanna, other than just presenting the theory as an option, along with a basic explanation of why some scientists believe that ID is a more realistic theory than evolution.

I don't remember evolution really being taught in great detail when I was in school ... just a chapter or two to introduce the theory, along with some evidence that supposedly backed it up. Same thing when my kids were in school.
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24912 Feb 2, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
Since you believe the Biblical creation story, maybe you can clear something up for me. When it says in Genesis 1:3: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light", what was the source of that light? I ask this question because Genesis goes on to say that the Sun and stars weren't created until the 4th day.
I don't know. Possible explanations:
http://creationwiki.org/First_light
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24914 Feb 2, 2014
Old Guy,

I have a couple more questions for you. What are you thoughts about these things ...

The common consensus seems to be that humans evolved from primates in S Africa and became hominids. It's also accepted as fact that this transformation took millions of years to occur. The only evidence of these so-called hominids are a few skulls and skeletons and single bones and teeth. The hominids supposedly moved out of Africa, where natural selection cause their extinction and the modern human prevailed.

Now, it seems very unlikely to me that, after having existed for millions of years, every single hominid is dead. There are still primates, and there are still humans, but there are no transitional species. Other than speculation, what real evidence is there that humans are descended from primates or any other animal?

How do evolution scientists prove or disprove their theories? Their default explanation for practically everything is "it would have taken billions of years to occur", which automatically renders their theories unprovable.

Since: Jan 13

Lexington, KY

#24915 Feb 2, 2014
So is Intelligent design just a fancy word for creationism?. And if a higher power created us why does it have to be the Christian God?.

Since: Jan 13

Lexington, KY

#24916 Feb 2, 2014
Perhaps we were manufactured by aliens to be used as slaves?.
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24918 Feb 2, 2014
Pops

Fort Thomas, KY

#24919 Feb 2, 2014
Trayvonius Martinez wrote:
<quoted text>When are you going to apologize to "XYZ"?
http://l.barackobama.com/african-americans/
That wi happen when water runs freely up hill. It's already been days. lol

Since: Jan 13

Lexington, KY

#24920 Feb 2, 2014
mutt wrote:
I went to that site initially and really didn't see anything that explained a difference between creationism and Intelligent Design. Nor any kind of way to present it as part of a valid option to be taught in a classroom.
mutt

Chillicothe, OH

#24921 Feb 2, 2014
joanna50 wrote:
I went to that site initially and really didn't see anything that explained a difference between creationism and Intelligent Design. Nor any kind of way to present it as part of a valid option to be taught in a classroom.
Creationism is a the Christian (and possibly Islamic?) biblical belief that the earth and everything in it was created in 6 days. There are some old-earth Creationists, who believe that the earth was formed before the 6 days of creation.(I'm in that camp.) But ID doesn't identify any creator or religious text. Some people believe that lifeforms from other planets may have planted life here.
Pops

Fort Thomas, KY

#24922 Feb 2, 2014
mutt wrote:
Old Guy,
I have a couple more questions for you. What are you thoughts about these things ...
The common consensus seems to be that humans evolved from primates in S Africa and became hominids. It's also accepted as fact that this transformation took millions of years to occur. The only evidence of these so-called hominids are a few skulls and skeletons and single bones and teeth. The hominids supposedly moved out of Africa, where natural selection cause their extinction and the modern human prevailed.
Now, it seems very unlikely to me that, after having existed for millions of years, every single hominid is dead. There are still primates, and there are still humans, but there are no transitional species. Other than speculation, what real evidence is there that humans are descended from primates or any other animal?
How do evolution scientists prove or disprove their theories? Their default explanation for practically everything is "it would have taken billions of years to occur", which automatically renders their theories unprovable.
Makes me wish that Darwin was still here.

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