English Cemetery - looking for local descendants

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Martha Welch Lazore

Franklin, IN

#1 Dec 10, 2012
Madison Courier, July 22, 1981 Obituary:(old hard to read copy so some spelling will be incorrect)

Martha Welch Lazore, 27, formerly of Carrollton, died Monday at Port Huron Medical Center, Huron Michigan.She was born and reared in Carroll County and attended Carroll County high School.

Survivors include husband Robert, her mother, Nora Gibson, one son Rickey and two sisters, Vicky Johnson of Carrollton and Bonnie Morris of Lamar Mo.

Services at Graham-Dunn Funeral Home of Carrollton, with the burial in the English Cemetery.

Martha Welch Lavore was born May 9,1954 and died July 20, 1981

I need to know if there is a stone monument on her grave if she is in fact interred at the English Cemetery, English KY.

Would like to hear form any area family.
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#2 Dec 10, 2012
I am trying to reach Vicki for you. I don't want to give her number out on here. Please be patient.
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#3 Dec 10, 2012
I have just spoke with Vicki and she needs your name and a way to reach you. She doesn't have internet access where she is living.
Martha Welch Lazore

Franklin, IN

#4 Dec 10, 2012
incognito, thank you so much for noticing my post and taking the time to follow up.

Is Vicky in the Carrollton area and can she tell me about her sisters headstone? I looked up the English Cemetery Corporation at the KY state level and have all the principal peoples names. I will try and contact the registered secretary tomorrow sometime by telephone.

I'm trying to solve a weird mystery that others may be wondering too if not forgotten. I do need to know if a headstone exists where her final resting place is. Someone will have to physically check the plot location and number at English Cem. Hopefully the staff can do this for me based on cemetery records.

Note: I have created a throw away gmail email account to give out so can be reached at mwlenglish@gmail.com

Thank you again!
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#5 Dec 11, 2012
Martha Welch Lazore wrote:
incognito, thank you so much for noticing my post and taking the time to follow up.
Is Vicky in the Carrollton area and can she tell me about her sisters headstone? I looked up the English Cemetery Corporation at the KY state level and have all the principal peoples names. I will try and contact the registered secretary tomorrow sometime by telephone.
I'm trying to solve a weird mystery that others may be wondering too if not forgotten. I do need to know if a headstone exists where her final resting place is. Someone will have to physically check the plot location and number at English Cem. Hopefully the staff can do this for me based on cemetery records.
Note: I have created a throw away gmail email account to give out so can be reached at mwlenglish@gmail.com
Thank you again!
I will give this info to her tonight. Good luck.
Martha Welch Lazore

Madison, IN

#6 Dec 11, 2012
Thanks and appreciate the help incognito!
hmmm

Madison, IN

#8 Dec 14, 2012
any word on this yet?
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#9 Dec 14, 2012
I have been trying to reach her again with your info. Keep getting a busy signal, but I will keep trying for you.
Martha Welch Lazore

Franklin, IN

#10 Dec 14, 2012
Thanks incognito.

Here's the deal. I can't sleep because it's disturbing to report that there is a nice headstone still attached to it's base, inscribed with the correct stats, undamaged (quite nice actually) lying in a remote creek bed in Indiana. I believe Martha Welch Lazore and family would want it back where it belongs. I know I would and they deserve that at least.

There could be a reasonable explanation but have yet to figure out what it could possibly be. Would be happy to email pictures but you said she has no internet. Would be glad to phone her and talk to her and make arrangements to have the stone returned to the exact spot it should be installed at.

Still I really really want to know how this tombstone got to where it is now and the circumstances surrounding it's disappearance from her grave, that is if in fact missing from it.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. There are other stones in the creek bed also but those are many years old and identifying where they belong is a task for another day. I'll get to them later but this mystery has to be solved and since I'm the person that has a conscience about it, I'd like to get it resolved soon, like before Christmas.

I'll be more than happy to retrieve it and deliver it to the English Cemetery plot and set it where it belongs, but I don't know where that is.
Martha Welch Lazore

Franklin, IN

#11 Dec 14, 2012
incognito feel free to email me.
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#12 Dec 15, 2012
Martha Welch Lazore wrote:
incognito feel free to email me.
I will try again tomorrow and I will e-mail you instead of responding here.
Buried

Louisville, KY

#14 Dec 16, 2012
Click the blue link at the top of the post above, not the green one in the last sentence. :)
Sandy

New Albany, IN

#15 Dec 16, 2012
Hey, Why not tell the police where you saw the headstone, and let them return it?
well now

Franklin, IN

#16 Dec 17, 2012
Sandy wrote:
Hey, Why not tell the police where you saw the headstone, and let them return it?
That's a good question. However has there been a crime? That's why I seek the information from any family.

If I were to call the police every time I found a grave stone in a creek bed, tossed into the woods because some idiot in the past didn't want to mow around it, every time I found markers in a fence row cause some farmer didn't want to damage a plow, there literally would be not enough time in the day.

This one is unique because of the condition, relatively recent (only 30 years since internment and more so the unusual location where it is now.

In other words, most people could care less about the dead, their final resting place and any monument. they are too busy living. It's true and it's really sad.

If I called the police I would have to show them pictures and gps coordinates of hundreds just in this county.
Buried

Louisville, KY

#17 Dec 17, 2012
If the stone you have seen matches the one shown in the photo at the Find-a-Grave site, then you can be assured that there's been a crime committed. Even if a family member decided for some odd reason to remover Ms. Lazore's stone from her grave, it's against the law to dump things except in designated areas.

Carroll Co., KY takes care of its cemeteries, at least most of them. There might be a small handful of private, family cemeteries for which no one is responsible and relatives for the few people buried there have all died. However, I know that the English cemetery has an active committee and seeks to keep the cemetery as clean and undisturbed as possible.

Plundering a cemetery is a crime as is removing headstones without the cemetery's caretakers or boards' permission. I cannot believe that someone at the English cemetery gave anyone permission to remove Ms. Lazore's stone. Even if there was permission granted, your description of where her stone currently resides sounds as though the stone has been dumped illegally. It should be reported to law enforcement.

I find it very difficult to believe that so many headstones have been dumped in your area that it would keep you busy 24/7/365 to report them all. What about your area makes it such a magnet for stolen headstones? That question seems more like the answer to why you don't want to involve law enforcement.

Frankly, this all seems pretty fishy to me.
incognito

Shelbyville, KY

#18 Dec 17, 2012
I just spoke with vicki and relayed your message. They just decorated the grave yesterday, and everything is still in tact. Apparently the stone does not belong to their family.
well now

Franklin, IN

#19 Dec 17, 2012
Thanks so much for confirming this information! Wanted to be sure there were no shenanigans along the way somewhere for dome reason.

Now I know why the stone is discarded, it's a 'mistake'. As many times as funeral homes, newspapers and even families make mistakes, now add stone cutters to the list.

The stats are identical, so it's no coincidence.

Martha and Marsha are NOT THE SAME, so monument maker says 'oops', as discard it in a creek bed(well somebody did)!

I'm very relieved to hear she is marked properly but just so you know, and her family knows, there was a 'monumental' mistake 'almost' made that someone caught after the original stone was completed. Wonder who it was that caught the error? The manufacturer or a family member? Oh to be a fly on the wall of that conversation!

This is in Madison, in a cemetery actually. Not a good place for it regardless.

Thank you again for your efforts incognito.

http://s1277.beta.photobucket.com/user/oneguy...
Hmmm

Sellersburg, IN

#20 Dec 17, 2012
Did anyone in the area ever think that when it flooded it washed away the headstone and the family bought a new one. I mean we have only had a ton of flood's in the area this happen all the time. Not every thing is a criminal act.
well now

Franklin, IN

#21 Dec 17, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
Did anyone in the area ever think that when it flooded it washed away the headstone and the family bought a new one. I mean we have only had a ton of flood's in the area this happen all the time. Not every thing is a criminal act.
It's 20 miles away in another state, also apparently a discarded stone because of a mistaken engraving of the first name. Only the stone cutter and inscriber would probably know for sure why it is where it is. The main thing is that there is in fact a stone where it need to be, regardless of the one in the creek.
Genealogy

North Vernon, IN

#22 Dec 18, 2012
I am wondering if it may belong else where. I have ran into the issue of Names and dates being the same just in differnt states? Maybe research the name Martha a bit more and see if she is in another state or in your own. Most places when a mistake is made dont toss them they stone is usually destroyed. I would check with local and surrounding town cemetery's to see if the actual name is right and if by chance another person all together.

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