is a Christmas Tree a Holiday Tree? M...
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Radical Moderate

Wilkesboro, NC

#41 Dec 21, 2012
I'm a little late to the discussion I see but here's my commentary on the topic.

First off let me say, I am a grown atheist man and I absolutely love Christmas time. It's by far my favorite time of year. I often wish people Merry Christmas, I call my tree a Christmas Tree, decorate with angels and candles and stockings (of course, I also always put out a big boot on my fireplace stoop with hay in it for Odin's horse Sleipnir). I welcome anyone wishing me Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukka, or even "Happy Odin's Wild Hunt" for that matter.

Christmas is to me, an entirely secular celebration with no religious connotation, even though it has it's roots in (multiple) religion(s). So I really don't have a problem with “Christmas Tree” or “Merry Christmas”, though, manger scenes and other overtly religious icons are out of place in Government buildings in my opinion.

Having said that, and while the term "Merry Christmas" doesn't bother me personally, I can't say I see the outrage some express over “Happy Holidays”. There are people who are bothered by “Merry Christmas” because they don't celebrate it, and they are Americans, good citizens, who pay taxes, who vote and who rightly expect their government officials (and employers) to represent them and their needs just as you expect them to represent yours. There are millions of Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Zoroastrian, non-religious, as well as puritanical Christians who don't celebrate Christmas at all. Our legislators and governors are supposed to represent all of us and there's no reason they can't do that and also remain completely neutral to religious ideas.“Happy Holidays” is a perfectly positive, inclusive and lovely greeting. That anyone would find it offensive that someone wishes to be inclusive when they give well wishes to someone else is inexplicable to me.

What I see with these discussions and arguments always boils down to some Christian or Christian group, arguing that their religion should receive special treatment from the Government and from their employers. This notion that somehow those who object to the government that we all support, indorsing a religious belief that not all Americans hold as trying to tell Christians how they are allowed to celebrate their holiday is absurd. My only guess is it's derived from some faux persecution complex derived from the Bible. If Christians honestly think their religious views are somehow being abridged in this country, try living as an atheist for a while (and I readily admit that we atheists are by no means heavily persecuted.)

Nobody is trying to prevent you from calling trees whatever you want, or celebrating your holidays in whatever way you choose. We're just asking for the same from you and to not have the people in authority whom we mutually depend on and support (government or employer) used as a cudgel to push or indorse a religious idea that we don't hold.

It's about encouraging and striving to build an environment and society that is not hostile to those members who may be different in some way from the majority. It's about getting along. You are always free to proselytize for your religion, even at work in my opinion. But using a position of authority for that purpose is pretty despicable.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#42 Dec 21, 2012
Agree totally 100%.
wondering

Alpharetta, GA

#43 Dec 21, 2012
I do not understand are you afraid that if you hear the truth that you will be converted. Christians pay taxes just like the minority do. Just because you do not know the truth, I would not support anyone who tried to stop you from expressing it. Why fear Jesus if he did not exsist? I think that you fear there is a God and do not want to be reminded of Him. God still loves you as do I.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#44 Dec 21, 2012
Wondering, atheists don't fear something we don't believe in. Why do you think we fear your god? I don't fear Odin, Rama, Allah, Izanagi, Amaterasu, or any of the pantheon of various gods worshipped in the world at any given point.

I don't fear because I don't believe in them, any more than I fear Santa Claus or the Krampus or Black Peter.

I have a problem with religious displays on government property because our government is supposed to represent ALL the citizens of our country, not just the Christians. Or the Muslims, or Buddhists, or any religious path.

As has been stated repeatedly, no one is stopping you from celebrating Christmas anyway you want to, on private property. It's just when government gets into the religious biz that I have a problem, because then they aren't representing me anymore. Generic, non-denominational lights and a Christmas tree are fine by me; nativity scenes in front of the State Capitol or the White House are not.

Fear never enters into it. Suppose I said I believed in a giant plant from outer space that would eat you if you go outside your house on the third Wednesday of the month. I believe this so much that I won't step foot outside on that day, and I truly believe anyone who does will get eaten.

Are you going to stop going outside just because I say so? Of course not, because you don't believe in the giant man-eating plant from outer space. In fact, you probably think I'm silly and probably a little crazy for believing that, especially since I let it affect my life in such a major way.

But you personally are not afraid of being eaten by a giant plant from outer space, because *you don't believe in it.*

That's why we don't fear your god or your Jesus -- we don't believe in them. You can't fear what you don't believe in.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#45 Dec 21, 2012
BTW, just in case you didn't know, I grew up in the Lutheran church and was baptized and confirmed in the church. I even played the organ for a few years on Sundays.

So I've had the whole indoctrination into Christianity. I started doubting in high school, studied during college and all my adult life, was agnostic for decades, and finally became an atheist after a life changing illness.
average joe

Atlanta, GA

#46 Dec 22, 2012
legalize pot ! that'll be a crop i can make money with off my land and take the money out of the cartel's hands ., I also can crush the seeds for oil that's more viscous than crude oil, strip the hemp to make clothing probably 20 times more stronger than cotton, make better paper than pulpwood paper, and last longer than traditional wood paper. And make a medicine for very sick cancer patients to knock off the nauseu of chemo . also clear out our jails of misdemeanor crimes for possesion that we all pay ton's of taxes on them to be incarcerated for month's on end . what do you think wobbler , bad or good idea for farming ?

“it is what it is”

Since: Sep 12

tallapoosa

#47 Dec 22, 2012
i'll bite...... history says hemp was our first cash crop, and washington himself was a hemp farmer. gateway drug? no...user myself? never touched it.still a christmas tree...lol....l8tr

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#48 Dec 22, 2012
Oh hell yes, legalize pot. It's a great way drug, not a gateway drug. I smoked pot from the late 70's to the early 80's, and still indulge every now and then when I get the chance.

As a matter of fact, I went to CA this past summer to visit a friend, and we stayed baked pretty much the whole time. Medical marijuana, you know. Plus some she grew herself. Excellent stuff.

There's no reason not to legalize it -- it's almost the perfect plant. It's nutritious, it has most wonderful medicinal uses, it produces a paper and cloth that is much stronger than anything wood or cotton can make, it's sustainable, renewable, grows a lot faster than trees, and would help kick-start the economy in a HUGE way.

And just about anyone could grow enough to put some much needed cash in their pockets. Personally, I'd open a dispensary and grow some in one of my side yard gardens.

Just say YES to legalizing marijuana!!
average joe

Atlanta, GA

#49 Dec 22, 2012
Ithink so , it's crazy to let the cartels in mexico stir up violence and carnage just to get it across the border. Take the profit away from them , tax it , sell it . Even the non thc hemp would be profitable in farming. but the cotton, oil and pulpwood industries would have a fit . I don't get it , I don't use myself , but i have never met a theif or wrecklees person smoking a doobie , wine in large amount's is more of a killer because of drunk drivers than pot ever has.
average joe

Atlanta, GA

#51 Dec 22, 2012
it had to do with farming land and christmas trees post , kinda took a side track . that's all .
average joe

Atlanta, GA

#52 Dec 22, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
Oh hell yes, legalize pot. It's a great way drug, not a gateway drug. I smoked pot from the late 70's to the early 80's, and still indulge every now and then when I get the chance.
As a matter of fact, I went to CA this past summer to visit a friend, and we stayed baked pretty much the whole time. Medical marijuana, you know. Plus some she grew herself. Excellent stuff.
There's no reason not to legalize it -- it's almost the perfect plant. It's nutritious, it has most wonderful medicinal uses, it produces a paper and cloth that is much stronger than anything wood or cotton can make, it's sustainable, renewable, grows a lot faster than trees, and would help kick-start the economy in a HUGE way.
And just about anyone could grow enough to put some much needed cash in their pockets. Personally, I'd open a dispensary and grow some in one of my side yard gardens.
Just say YES to legalizing marijuana!!
My main reason for the idea is that i would grow the best i could because when my dear cousin who passed away from a rare form of leukimea , helped her so much during chemo and and got her able to eat and hold it down . I do truly believe that it has a purpose other than getting high , she was so sick , I think that mj helped her to live an extra year and a half before she passed away . I miss her much and just got back from her grave . She was a flight nurse and an angel for hurt soldiers coming back from other countries .

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