“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#43 Nov 19, 2012
In 2004 my company laid off a bunch of people, and those of us left had to take on more work along with having our hours cut. FTR, that company was MCI, and y'all might remember it was brought to its knees by the CEO Bernie Ebbers and the CFO, Scott Sullivan. I worked at the big data center off I-75N.

We complained privately, but we were so job-scared we did it. Didn't make any difference, MCI went under and we all lost our jobs, purely due to the greed of Bernie and Scott. If you want to read about it, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCI_Inc .

As someone who was there from 1999 until they laid us all off in June 2004, I can tell you that article is dead on.

This is just to say that employees generally try to tough it out, even when executive management screws us over.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#44 Nov 19, 2012
Ok, Back to the Healthcare conversation. I have Studied (Not Like Tom Cruise of course)the documents that our country is founded on, and it's ammendments and for the life of me cannot locate anything that makes Healthcare a Right.Even for folks like me. Many People think that Military Retirees get free Healthcare, but alas that is not true in any sense. Healthcare for Retired Military is less expensive than any corporate health care plan, in monetary terms that it true. But those very few who actually make it to retirement have paid with much more than cash for that benefit. But I digress.

Free Healthcare for the masses has never been something that was promised in writing. Although many in the Democrat Party like to think that it is. I would be very interested if anyone could produce an official government document to the contrary. Personally, I do not have a problem with Free Clinics and the notion that in an emergency situation that life saving treatment should never be turned away at an emergency room door. I do not believe that my tax dollars should be paying for labor and birth treatment but should be used to pay for contreception.

People on Government subsistance should be required to pay a percentage of the allowances for those programs back to the medical community for medical treatment recieved while on those programs.

I also believe that medical treatment recieved but not paid should be automatically deducted by the IRS each year for these folks that don't work but are given a refund each year for pumping out kids year after year.

If you use the system, you should be paying as you go.

Ok...Bring the Rain....

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#45 Nov 19, 2012
1. If you have no taxable wages, you had nothing taken out of your non-existant wages, and so you don't file taxes, and don't get a refund.

2. The Constitution is a living document, meaning as the world changes, it changes too. The changes are called "Amendments".

Originally, there was only "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". What we think of as our Rights are the first 10 Amendments -- the original Constitution had no provisions for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, right to bear arms, due process, freedom from quartering, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, self-incrimination, trial by jury, cruel and unusual punishment, power of the States, and, pertinent to your argument, Bill, the Ninth Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, there may be other rights accorded to the people of this country that aren't explicitly stated in the Constitution, and not being stated doesn't mean they aren't protected.

Our founding fathers were wise enough to know that times, customs, and society would change in the future, and the Ninth Amendment affords protection of any rights that evolved in those changes.

Consider the other rights afforded by Amendments -- the right of women and non-whites to vote and term limits. Consider the repealed Amendment -- prohibition.

The Constitution was meant to change as we changed, not to be an iron-clad straitjacket preventing us from being compassionate and fair.

But we do many things in the US and have many laws that aren't in the Constitution -- SPLOSTs aren't specifically mentioned, neither is the requirement to have auto insurance, or a driver's license to operate a motor vehicle, speed limits, movie ratings, penalties for bounced checks, dog licensing, hunting and fishing licenses, requiring home owners' insurance when you buy a house, and so on and so on.

Medicare and Social Security aren't amendments to the Constitution, but they're the law of the land.

I think joining the other First World countries in providing guaranteed health care to all our citizens is a basic human right. I'm glad to finally see it happening.
old man

AOL

#46 Nov 19, 2012
Help Desk wrote:
It's impossible to have a true national dialog about healthcare reform in the USA because Americans have been brainwashed for a century by opponents of healthcare reform beginning when President Teddy Roosevelt took up the cause of reform.
Modern conditioning against healthcare reform began in 1946 when a PR firm was hired to demonize the term "socialized medicine," a term that had been used without negative connotations since President TR himself used it. This PR firm infused the term with Cold War fear that was beaten into every American head. By the 1960's LP records had been distributed to Americans that featured the voice of Ronald Reagan scaring the hell out of listeners with tales of Soviet-style healthcare.
In the 1990's countries as diverse as Taiwan, Israel and Switzerland all created public healthcare systems that work for their citizens. Taiwan is the most interesting of these because they looked the world over for what worked and what didn't. They began with a clean slate and looked at ALL the options, something that Americans CAN'T do because we have been effectively brainwashed for a century and are unable to really look at effective options. Taiwan currently only spends a fraction of what the USA does on its healthcare.
Switzerland deserves a look as well because when the Swiss had a referendum in the 1990's on healthcare reform the vote was almost evenly split with only a small majority favoring reform. Today almost no one in that country says they prefer pre-reform healthcare.
Maybe Bible-thumping Southerners should take a look at healthcare in the Promised Land of Israel. Could it be that God's Choice of a Healthcare System is a Universal One?:)
The result of a century of American brainwashing around the subject of healthcare is the flawed "ObamaCare," the genesis of which was a conservative think tank reform embraced by George Bush Sr and other prominent Republicans in the late 1980's. We all know that Romney's proudest achievement as governor is "RomneyCare", an achievement he sadly couldn't talk about. His official portrait the hangs in the Mass capitol evidences this clearly.
So those of you who aren't happy with ObamaCare, well, you can only blame the selfish interests of the Medical-Industrial Complex for not allowing us a better alternative. And those of you who oppose any reform at all or think the Magic Fairy Dust of the "Free Market" is going to make everything happy and good, well, you are simply deluded.
If obama care only pertained to healthcare it probably would be something that could be tweaked for our benefit, but this legislation contains a lot of the legislation that have been voted against for the past 30 yrs, we are about to find out what all is in the Pandora's box that the democrats forced on the public and it's not going to be pleasant, Hang on to your ruby red slippers Dorthy cause we going on a hell ride.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#47 Nov 20, 2012
Really. Enumerate these items in your "Pandora's Box". I've actually read the bill, have you?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#48 Nov 20, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
Really. Enumerate these items in your "Pandora's Box". I've actually read the bill, have you?
You must not have a job or a family. You have too much free time to read a bill that not even Georgia legislators have read.
OBAMA12

Temple, GA

#49 Nov 20, 2012
Hey petsound, what's wrong with Wobb reading the bill? That's what good citizens should do
To educate themselves on legislation, Maybe you
Should turn Fox News off and study up on what your congress is actually doin, but hey, it's easier for you to eat tater chips and get brainwashed by "fair and balanced news"!!!! Open up another bag and pop you a coke!

“Home In Georgia Now”

Since: Jul 07

The "City of Gold" in Georgia

#50 Nov 20, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
1. If you have no taxable wages, you had nothing taken out of your non-existant wages, and so you don't file taxes, and don't get a refund.
2. The Constitution is a living document, meaning as the world changes, it changes too. The changes are called "Amendments".
Originally, there was only "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". What we think of as our Rights are the first 10 Amendments -- the original Constitution had no provisions for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, right to bear arms, due process, freedom from quartering, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, self-incrimination, trial by jury, cruel and unusual punishment, power of the States, and, pertinent to your argument, Bill, the Ninth Amendment:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
In other words, there may be other rights accorded to the people of this country that aren't explicitly stated in the Constitution, and not being stated doesn't mean they aren't protected.
Our founding fathers were wise enough to know that times, customs, and society would change in the future, and the Ninth Amendment affords protection of any rights that evolved in those changes.
Consider the other rights afforded by Amendments -- the right of women and non-whites to vote and term limits. Consider the repealed Amendment -- prohibition.
The Constitution was meant to change as we changed, not to be an iron-clad straitjacket preventing us from being compassionate and fair.
But we do many things in the US and have many laws that aren't in the Constitution -- SPLOSTs aren't specifically mentioned, neither is the requirement to have auto insurance, or a driver's license to operate a motor vehicle, speed limits, movie ratings, penalties for bounced checks, dog licensing, hunting and fishing licenses, requiring home owners' insurance when you buy a house, and so on and so on.
Medicare and Social Security aren't amendments to the Constitution, but they're the law of the land.
I think joining the other First World countries in providing guaranteed health care to all our citizens is a basic human right. I'm glad to finally see it happening.
Last time I read the Constitution there is no meantion of the "right" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Now if you will read the preamble to the Declaration of Independence you will find it to read as follows in the opening sentence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." So those items are not rights guaranteed you under the Constitution of the USA or in the original "Article of Confederation." So your assertion that the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights found in the Constitution is flawed.

“Home In Georgia Now”

Since: Jul 07

The "City of Gold" in Georgia

#51 Nov 20, 2012
Seems that in the haste of The Teleprompter Kid, Harry Reid, and "We have to pass it to see what is in it Pelosi" they overlooked a small problem with funding Obamacare. If a state sets up a "State Healthcare Exchange" it is funded by imposing a tax(fine) on employers who elect to have their employees covere by that mechanism. Now if the state, like Georgia and others reject to take part in the Health Care Exchanges and elect to have the Federal Government set up the exchange, guess what?? There is no funding mechanism in the law to be imposed against the employers. In other words if all the 29 states that have Republican Governors will not participate in the exchanges this could very well kill Obamacare. Now the left wing liberals say it is a "clerical error" but Max Bacus who wrote it made it clear he intended it to be that way. So hopefully we can see this law die for lack of funding.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#52 Nov 20, 2012
Old Man: You know perfectly well my job status and my family status. And you're bragging about not reading a bill you're so dead-set against? Doesn't seem like anything I'd be particularly proud of... preferring to stay ignorant when the option of educating yourself is freely available.

And I personally am certainly not proud of our Georgia "representatives" not having read this bill before getting their asses up on their shoulders about it. That's their *job* to read these bills, not to whine that they're too long.

John: You're correct, I misspoke about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. However, that doesn't change the fact that the Constitution was framed by the founding fathers to be open to change by amendment.

Which it has been. So saying that because Right A wasn't originally in the Constitution is a reason Right A shouldn't be provided now is specious.

And the changeability of the Constitution isn't even at issue. This country is governed by hundreds if not thousands of laws that are not covered in the Constitution nor in the subsequent 27 Amendments.

tl, dr: It doesn't matter one jot or tittle whether the right to healthcare is in the Constitution. Universal healthcare is coming, and the sooner, the better.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#53 Nov 20, 2012
Sorry, replace "Old Man" with "Petsound". I get the names of all the ignorant people confused around here.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#54 Nov 20, 2012
Actually, if the states refuse to set up the insurance exchange, the Federal govt will do it for them, and the states will have no say in the cost. Setting up their own exchanges will let them negotiate pricing with the insurance companies; if the Fed does it, they have to pay what the Fed negotiates, which will likely be more.

And guess what: GA already has an Insurance Exchange for people who can't qualify for private insurance. Of course, you pay around $600 a month for crap coverage, but the exchange already exists. Nathan Deal and his cronies just don't want to change the pricing structure because it would be less $$$$ in their pockets, and they might actually *do* something for the citizens of this state.

“Home In Georgia Now”

Since: Jul 07

The "City of Gold" in Georgia

#55 Nov 20, 2012
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/exactly-what-i...

I say this will wind up in the courts. I see a class action lawsuit from employers who are fined/taxed under Obamacare in states that do not set up an exchange.

“Home In Georgia Now”

Since: Jul 07

The "City of Gold" in Georgia

#56 Nov 20, 2012
http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/10605-o...

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/obamacares-f...

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/are-federal-...

Notice how the main stream media is NOT reporting on this issue. Have any of you folks heard of this issue before now?? Not if you watch the main stream media you have not. This is our greatest hope to defeating this law. I see power in numbers so if the 29 Republican Governors will stand united and not pass exchanges and force the Feds on this issue I see the end of Obamacare in sight.

“Unions are still scum ”

Since: Dec 07

Atlanta

#57 Nov 20, 2012
John In North Carolina wrote:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org /exactly-what-is-max-baucus-sa ying-here/
I say this will wind up in the courts. I see a class action lawsuit from employers who are fined/taxed under Obamacare in states that do not set up an exchange.
You need to post a link from MSNBC to get anyone to believe you. You are correct, states can opt out.
old man

AOL

#58 Nov 20, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
Really. Enumerate these items in your "Pandora's Box". I've actually read the bill, have you?
You have told us in the past you have a problem with retaining what you read and how to function which is one reason you can not work and draw disability, but now you are the great know all about all the health care bill, I believe you stretch the truth way too much wobbie, so you either lie about your disability or you lie about what you know, which is it? have you backed yourself in a corner, you may have run your mouth way too much this time, you need to be reevaluated on your disability, you've left plenty of evidence here at topix.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59 Nov 20, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
Oh, one more thing: it's illegal to terminate or harass an employee based on their vote. I hope those employees march themselves right down to the Labor Bureau and file complaints against the employer, and then find a good lawyer and sue his behind parts off.
I didn't see where anyone said they were fired based on their vote. How did the employer see their ballots?

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#60 Nov 20, 2012
MH: earlier in the thread it was mentioned that someone supposedly laid off people based on whether they had an Obama sticker on their cars, assuming they had voted for Obama.

OM: When I read the ACA, I did something that's probably never entered your mind to do -- I *took notes* because I knew I'd never retain it all. And then I *saved my notes*. That's a nifty little skill I learned back in high school -- along with reading for comprehension.

The day you back me in a corner is the day I'm lying in the cold, cold ground.

04: States can opt out, but then the federal government sets up the exchange for them, and they have no input. It's in the states' best interest to set up the exchanges themselves.

“Get off my lawn”

Since: Jul 10

Bremen, GA

#61 Nov 20, 2012
Oh yeah, I've already been reevaluated by SSD and as far as they're concerned, I'm still disabled. That applies to my various doctors as well.

I fail to understand why anyone would think I'd willingly stay disabled and bring in $16K a year when I could make over $50K (more if I got recertified) if I could work...

Maybe that's an acceptable trade-off to you, but it's not to me. I'd much rather work and make more money and have better health insurance than Medicare.
old man

AOL

#62 Nov 20, 2012
wobbler1957 wrote:
Oh yeah, I've already been reevaluated by SSD and as far as they're concerned, I'm still disabled. That applies to my various doctors as well.
I fail to understand why anyone would think I'd willingly stay disabled and bring in $16K a year when I could make over $50K (more if I got recertified) if I could work...
Maybe that's an acceptable trade-off to you, but it's not to me. I'd much rather work and make more money and have better health insurance than Medicare.
You've left a trail Stevie Wonder could follow, You have proved you are quite capable of employment, you are a fraud and you will be reported. after all you have posted here will show your ability to work, can you say wall mart greeter.

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