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Curious

Lake Saint Louis, MO

#1 Jan 31, 2013
What exactly makes a union worker better than their non union counter parts? Not the work force, the individual worker themselves. FYI, I am a union member.
Some dude

United States

#2 Jan 31, 2013
Curious wrote:
What exactly makes a union worker better than their non union counter parts? Not the work force, the individual worker themselves. FYI, I am a union member.
Nothing per-say. If you're lazy, you're lazy. If you have initiative then you'll be noticed. I'm a 7 year union worker myself and can't say individually I notice a difference in myself. I've always believed in doing your best. Now what I don't like is the lazy slob next to me who doesn't contribute anything yet he is paid the same; gets the same raises, same benifits, ect.
How do you see the answer to your question?
Guest

Jackson, MO

#3 Jan 31, 2013
If you are a union member, you answer your own question. But of course that's not what you are really seeking here, is it. You are looking to stir up hateful comments about unions and non-union workers.

The bottom line is that, regardless of union or non-union, people are workers and are making the best decisions they can make to provide for themselves and their family. Anything that indicates otherwise is serving an agenda to defame or criticize one or the other.

“It ain't gonna suck itself.”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#4 Jan 31, 2013
As an employer I would never hire a union member. No outside entity is going to dictate to me how to run my business. I'll follow the national, state and local regulations but not the will of a hostage taking organization.
Curious

Lake Saint Louis, MO

#5 Jan 31, 2013
No, not looking to stir up anything. Im just saying In my 15 year membership I've seen and heard a lot about how union product and worker is far superior than the non. In my personal opinion I have seen no difference in the finished product. They are virtually the same, some good some bad. Some good hard workers, some bad lazy workers. The only distinctive diffrence is pay. What I have been witnessing more recently however is that the younger generations more and more are joining into unions for that very reason. High wages and job placement regardless of their work ethic or skill. Union worker does not always mean higher skill. There is nothing wrong with that but one thing, that's the only reason they join. Not because they love the trade or have pride in what they do, just the pay. Most non union workers, as I have seen are more likely to enjoy and take pride in what they do because they don't make that higher wage and are not garanteed employment if they aren't good hard workers.
Curious

Lake Saint Louis, MO

#6 Jan 31, 2013
I choose to be part of a union, however I feel a person has the right to choose where and who they work for, and I don't like nor agree with my union when it tries to discredit the work of non union company's. I have many non union friends that are excellent workers that choose not to join unions and they are labeled "rats", "scabs", "un-safe" and "un-skilled". The thing I find hypocritical about my union is, that very same non union worker can walk into the hall, buy a card and instantly become a highly skilled, safe worker. Seen it a hundred times.
Un unionist

Lake Saint Louis, MO

#8 Jan 31, 2013
Yeah, how is it that I'm a low-no skilled scab without a union, and with a union, I'm one of the greatest. I don't need a card or to pay some one to say that I'm good at what I do, my work and work ethic says it loud and clear. I have the right to work with or without a union. I don't picket union jobs trying to stop people from hiring union and take food off their familys table, so why do they do that to me.

“Not actually a tattoed biker”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#9 Feb 1, 2013
Some dude wrote:
<quoted text>Nothing per-say. If you're lazy, you're lazy. If you have initiative then you'll be noticed. I'm a 7 year union worker myself and can't say individually I notice a difference in myself. I've always believed in doing your best. Now what I don't like is the lazy slob next to me who doesn't contribute anything yet he is paid the same; gets the same raises, same benifits, ect.
How do you see the answer to your question?
I agree.

“Think for yourself.”

Since: Dec 12

Anonymous

#10 Feb 1, 2013
The US Department of Labor sets the standard for skills & knowledge mastered to be a nationally recogized journeyman in a trade. All AFL/CIO apprentices are registered with the US Dept. of Labor and when they top out the US Department of Labor certifies they have the skills required to perform the duties of a Jouneyman of that trade.
Non-union workers do not have that nationally recognized certification of compentence.

AFL/CIO union members vote on their rules and agreements/contracts. They also vote for their leadership on local and international levels. AFL/CIO union members also monitor each other to assure quality workmanship. AFL/CIO unions have higher standards of excellence that the member adheres to and if a member violates the standard they are punished by the union. These punishments are determined by the severity of the violation. It could be that the member is to work off the clock until they correct their mistake. Ordered to take refresher courses in the area they are having issues with. Removed from the hiring list for a set time. Monitary penalty if the offense harms the reputaion of the union. These penalties are spelled out in the rules and by-laws which the membership voted on by majority vote.
It is the duty of every union member to notify union representatives, Union Stewards or Business Agents, if a member is performing less than satisfactory workmanship. Even if it is under the direction of the employer. This is how the unions out perform their non-union counterparts. Constant upgrading their skills through continued education, which now are academic accredited, and peer monitoring.
Every AFL/CIO union member chooses who they are willing to work for and have the right not to work for anyone they choose not to.

AFL/CIO union members raise the county prevailing wage. This is the average wage in a county for a craft that the US Government uses as a base wage when work is performed using government funds. All contractors must pay prevailing wage to it's workers, both non-union & union alike, on prevailing wage jobs. This makes it fair to all that the hourly pay be equal for all contractors to bid on government funded jobs.
So when union workers call non-union workers degrading names it is because they are trying to raise the standard of living for everyone in their community, county & state and the non-union worker is holding down the wages and standard of living.

Safety on AFL/CIO union jobs is much higher than on non-union jobs. This is documented by OSHA. It is also documented by OSHA that fatalities in the work place are 51% higher in Right-To-Work States than States who allow collective barginng & closed shops. This excellence in safety is attributed to better training offered to union members.

Unions have lead the fight for better wages, working conditions & benefits. It was the unions that brought the nation a 40 hour work week, overtime pay, insurance benefits for workers, child labor laws and OSHA.

Each person is responsible for their own financial life. You go to work accepting the pay offered to you and any benefits your employer gives you, if any. If you do not feel it is enough to live on then it is your fault for limiting yourself to such a low wage.
If you are a union member and you feel that someone is not peforming to the set union standards then it is your fault for allowing it to continue. Your punishment is having to work along side someone who is harming your union & embarassing youself when you complain on open forums. If you do not see a difference in yourself from a non-union worker then maybe you are the one under performing & the member who needs their skills brought up to higher standards.

Since: Apr 10

St. Louis, MO

#11 Feb 1, 2013
Hoover Niebold wrote:
As an employer I would never hire a union member. No outside entity is going to dictate to me how to run my business. I'll follow the national, state and local regulations but not the will of a hostage taking organization.
What a completely naive comment.
Obviously, you dont own a business of any sort.
george

Jackson, MO

#12 Feb 1, 2013
if u are stupid enough to pay the mob then join. Stay on obamas teets. Or be a man and show up and do your job. Don't join this legal gang of thugs called unions.

“Think for yourself.”

Since: Dec 12

Anonymous

#13 Feb 1, 2013
george wrote:
if u are stupid enough to pay the mob then join. Stay on obamas teets. Or be a man and show up and do your job. Don't join this legal gang of thugs called unions.
I am presuming that you sir do not earn a 6 figure income and are jealous of those who do.
If you read the ObamaCare bill you will notice that unions are exempt the same as congress, per page 112.
If you feel that voting on the minimum wage you will accept is unfair to those who take what is offered then that is your option. Take the scraps your employer offers. As for union workers we set our working conditions and negotiate our benefits.
As for paying the mob. Our union dues and work related expenses are 100% tax deductable. Meaning that we get back every cent we spend to go to work and for the clothes we wear at work. Every mile we drive we get a milage expense and yet you get nothing to drive to work. As a non-union worker you do not have anywhere near the deductions we are allowed. The past 5 years my tax bill has averaged 14% compared to your 35%. That means I keep on average $21,000.00 more than you keep. That is probably over half of what you make in a year.
Thank you for your comment.
Have a nice weekend.
george

Jackson, MO

#14 Feb 1, 2013
KashmirX wrote:
<quoted text>
I am presuming that you sir do not earn a 6 figure income and are jealous of those who do.
If you read the ObamaCare bill you will notice that unions are exempt the same as congress, per page 112.
If you feel that voting on the minimum wage you will accept is unfair to those who take what is offered then that is your option. Take the scraps your employer offers. As for union workers we set our working conditions and negotiate our benefits.
As for paying the mob. Our union dues and work related expenses are 100% tax deductable. Meaning that we get back every cent we spend to go to work and for the clothes we wear at work. Every mile we drive we get a milage expense and yet you get nothing to drive to work. As a non-union worker you do not have anywhere near the deductions we are allowed. The past 5 years my tax bill has averaged 14% compared to your 35%. That means I keep on average $21,000.00 more than you keep. That is probably over half of what you make in a year.
Thank you for your comment.
Have a nice weekend.
6 figure people are non union. They think for themselves and do not expect the union to get that for them.

Since: Apr 10

St. Louis, MO

#15 Feb 1, 2013
george wrote:
<quoted text>
6 figure people are non union. They think for themselves and do not expect the union to get that for them.
Gee, I guess thats why all the upper echelon of Boeing is union, plus they make 6$. What an idiot remark.
Isaac Bickerstaff

Oran, MO

#16 Feb 2, 2013
george wrote:
<quoted text>
6 figure people are non union. They think for themselves and do not expect the union to get that for them.
I guess KashmirX was right that this idiot does not earn $100K a year and hates anyone who does.
If you do not want to provide the most for your family who are we to stop you from being poor.
What do you expect from this part of the state.
That is why they call it Cape Retardo.
Guest

Fairfax, VA

#17 Feb 2, 2013
KashmirX wrote:
The US Department of Labor sets the standard for skills & knowledge mastered to be a nationally recogized journeyman in a trade. All AFL/CIO apprentices are registered with the US Dept. of Labor and when they top out the US Department of Labor certifies they have the skills required to perform the duties of a Jouneyman of that trade.
Non-union workers do not have that nationally recognized certification of compentence.
AFL/CIO union members vote on their rules and agreements/contracts. They also vote for their leadership on local and international levels. AFL/CIO union members also monitor each other to assure quality workmanship. AFL/CIO unions have higher standards of excellence that the member adheres to and if a member violates the standard they are punished by the union. These punishments are determined by the severity of the violation. It could be that the member is to work off the clock until they correct their mistake. Ordered to take refresher courses in the area they are having issues with. Removed from the hiring list for a set time. Monitary penalty if the offense harms the reputaion of the union. These penalties are spelled out in the rules and by-laws which the membership voted on by majority vote.
It is the duty of every union member to notify union representatives, Union Stewards or Business Agents, if a member is performing less than satisfactory workmanship. Even if it is under the direction of the employer. This is how the unions out perform their non-union counterparts. Constant upgrading their skills through continued education, which now are academic accredited, and peer monitoring.
Every AFL/CIO union member chooses who they are willing to work for and have the right not to work for anyone they choose not to.
AFL/CIO union members raise the county prevailing wage. This is the average wage in a county for a craft that the US Government uses as a base wage when work is performed using government funds. All contractors must pay prevailing wage to it's workers, both non-union & union alike, on prevailing wage jobs. This makes it fair to all that the hourly pay be equal for all contractors to bid on government funded jobs.
So when union workers call non-union workers degrading names it is because they are trying to raise the standard of living for everyone in their community, county & state and the non-union worker is holding down the wages and standard of living.
Safety on AFL/CIO union jobs is much higher than on non-union jobs. This is documented by OSHA. It is also documented by OSHA that fatalities in the work place are 51% higher in Right-To-Work States than States who allow collective barginng & closed shops. This excellence in safety is attributed to better training offered to union their skills brought up to higher standards.
If someone is doing something wrong they get punished? Ha. That is a bold face lie. The union is embarrassing the union. Acting like common thugs. Why do you have to depend on someone else to get or keep a job? Because you can't hack it in the real work world. Since when did anything this nation accredits worth the paper it's written on any more? Answer this, why does the union have to picket non union jobs and keep the non unions from working? Do they not have a right to work too? Even on prevailing wage jobs where the pay is equal, they still pickett. Why? Because the union isnt getting a piece of the pie. Thats what the union really is all about, the union making money of a mans back allowing him to work for a cut. Is this not a free country as you so called patriot union proclaim? I have never seen a non union compsny picketting a union job. Is it because you have to pay someone to keep you working and the non union doesn't? Statistics are corrupt. Anyone can find another statistic to counter any statistic they want depending on what biased origins they get it from.
pissed

Fairfax, VA

#18 Feb 2, 2013
Guest wrote:
<quoted text>If someone is doing something wrong they get punished? Ha. That is a bold face lie. The union is embarrassing the union. Acting like common thugs. Why do you have to depend on someone else to get or keep a job? Because you can't hack it in the real work world. Since when did anything this nation accredits worth the paper it's written on any more? Answer this, why does the union have to picket non union jobs and keep the non unions from working? Do they not have a right to work too? Even on prevailing wage jobs where the pay is equal, they still pickett. Why? Because the union isnt getting a piece of the pie. Thats what the union really is all about, the union making money of a mans back allowing him to work for a cut. Is this not a free country as you so called patriot union proclaim? I have never seen a non union compsny picketting a union job. Is it because you have to pay someone to keep you working and the non union doesn't? Statistics are corrupt. Anyone can find another statistic to counter any statistic they want depending on what biased origins they get it from.
Well if it wasn't for the union that prevailing wage job wouldn't pay shit And don't keep a non union person from working. But they might give you information about wages and benefits in which you are not getting. A person has the right to work that's not what right to work is all about Its the company's not to pay you hardly anything look around at states that are right to work

“It ain't gonna suck itself.”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#19 Feb 2, 2013
I've bid and won contracts union companies bid on as well. I've even been higher than the union company bids and still gotten the contract. One job in particular was bid buy two union companies and my small business, both union bids were lower and scheduled to take longer than my proposal. Ultimately both union bidders failed to provide employee names that could pass the required background checks while all my employees had already been qualified prior to bidding. And rather than reduce my employees wages to union scale I kept them on piece work that ensured their professional experience was rewarded accordingly, just as I do on all projects. On average they earn between $36-50 per hour and have reached $116 hr on occasion. Not bad for guys that wear tool bags IMO. Often they can complete what is scheduled for a 40 hr project in 24, at that point in the majority of projects they have the option of continuing working or calling it a week. Most often they prefer to continue on the project. In fact only one guy choose not to be present today, Saturday. I think they're trying to make up for the ten days off over the holidays, a $7000 year end bonus only goes so far.

“It ain't gonna suck itself.”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#20 Feb 2, 2013
Also...all my employees can indeed write off all their gear, fuel/mileage, required classes and time spent in them, as well as food if travel is involved. Even a waitress can write these things off, not just union members.
Guest

Fairfax, VA

#21 Feb 2, 2013
KashmirX wrote:
<quoted text>
I am presuming that you sir do not earn a 6 figure income and are jealous of those who do.
If you read the ObamaCare bill you will notice that unions are exempt the same as congress, per page 112.
If you feel that voting on the minimum wage you will accept is unfair to those who take what is offered then that is your option. Take the scraps your employer offers. As for union workers we set our working conditions and negotiate our benefits.
As for paying the mob. Our union dues and work related expenses are 100% tax deductable. Meaning that we get back every cent we spend to go to work and for the clothes we wear at work. Every mile we drive we get a milage expense and yet you get nothing to drive to work. As a non-union worker you do not have anywhere near the deductions we are allowed. The past 5 years my tax bill has averaged 14% compared to your 35%. That means I keep on average $21,000.00 more than you keep. That is probably over half of what you make in a year.
Thank you for your comment.
Have a nice weekend.
Einstein, anyone can deduct their work related expenses.

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