Struggling substitutes: Glut of teach...

Struggling substitutes: Glut of teaching hopefuls' job-hunts are tall task

There are 111 comments on the El Paso Times story from Jun 19, 2011, titled Struggling substitutes: Glut of teaching hopefuls' job-hunts are tall task. In it, El Paso Times reports that:

Teacher Aki Paget shows students her attempt at making a balloon animal during her class at First Baptist Church.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at El Paso Times.

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Chip

El Paso, TX

#1 Jun 19, 2011
.

Good Luck to the graduates.

Encourage to look at other fields in the medical where
careers are shorter. The pay is better and work hours
can be negotiated.

Look to joining law enforcement or the military where
you can gain rank faster.

.
Obama bin Biden

El Paso, TX

#2 Jun 20, 2011
You voted for Hope and Change, so stop complaining.
Observer

El Paso, TX

#3 Jun 20, 2011
Chip wrote:
.
Good Luck to the graduates.
Encourage to look at other fields in the medical where
careers are shorter. The pay is better and work hours
can be negotiated.
Look to joining law enforcement or the military where
you can gain rank faster.
.
I would never encourage anybody to join law enforcement.

Every city in the US is overstaffed with law enforcement officers. No matter what the crime levels are, agencies are always vying for more funding. Crime rate is high, we need more officers. Crime levels are low, we need more officers to prevent crime from rising.

Remember, the constitution is meant to keep our country from becoming an authoritarian police state. More cops means more harassment and abuse. More cops means more taxes and more cops does not stop crime. Cops cannot foil murders and other crimes, all they can do investigate after the fact.

Same goes for our schools. It has been ingrained in our heads that more funding is needed for school. People always vote for more funding for school. MORE MORE MORE.

Did you know, that since the 1970's federal funding for schools has increased 118 percent? And yet our school systems are falling farther and farther behind. Excessive funding fosters complacency and foments the mentality that schools are completely responsible for their children's education. More funding makes people believe that schools are places where you take your kids to learn and they bear no responsibility in aiding their kids education at home.

We must adhere to the U.S Constitution and cut all federal funding for schools. More funding does not mean better education. The U.S Constitution does not mention any powers to aid in education. It is strictly a states issue.

Parents are the missing link here. They must participate and take more interest in their children’s education first and foremost.
Chip

El Paso, TX

#4 Jun 20, 2011
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>I would never encourage anybody to join law enforcement.
Every city in the US is overstaffed with law enforcement officers. No matter what the crime levels are, agencies are always vying for more funding. Crime rate is high, we need more officers. Crime levels are low, we need more officers to prevent crime from rising.
Remember, the constitution is meant to keep our country from becoming an authoritarian police state. More cops means more harassment and abuse. More cops means more taxes and more cops does not stop crime. Cops cannot foil murders and other crimes, all they can do investigate after the fact.
Same goes for our schools. It has been ingrained in our heads that more funding is needed for school. People always vote for more funding for school. MORE MORE MORE.
Did you know, that since the 1970's federal funding for schools has increased 118 percent? And yet our school systems are falling farther and farther behind. Excessive funding fosters complacency and foments the mentality that schools are completely responsible for their children's education. More funding makes people believe that schools are places where you take your kids to learn and they bear no responsibility in aiding their kids education at home.
We must adhere to the U.S Constitution and cut all federal funding for schools. More funding does not mean better education. The U.S Constitution does not mention any powers to aid in education. It is strictly a states issue.
Parents are the missing link here. They must participate and take more interest in their children’s education first and foremost.
.

Something to think about. Your right on too much big brother in some cases.

Yet, do disagree with Homeland security and the BP funding. This law enforcement
area does need help with the border. The other is Our nations ports being
neglected for too long. Lots of catchup on many border issues. It is time for
the graduates to look into joining the BP, and other Homeland security forces.
Nothing wrong with giving Our brightest graduates entrance into the military.

It is time for the Colleges/Universities to quit pushing Education degrees. In
many of these institutions Department heads, office managers, and others only
wanting to save their own jobs instead of doing what is right in directing
students to other Colleges of study. Our country is lacking in the computer,
sciences, mathematical, analytical fields, engineering, and other specialized
fields.

The record # of students in the Universities in the Education field is a cycle
of Professors, Directors, and other staff wanting to keep their jobs. It is clear
there is a shift in the area of employment opportunities and it should be
addressed.

UTEP is one of them with the office manager in Education, deans who are out of
touch with current situations. These individuals should be reevaluated to see
why they continue to push certain agendas. All the while being absent when students
need them at registration time. Excuse there are in meetings. These individuals
back each other up to save their job more than being there for the student.

It is getting late. Hope there is more feedback on the subject.

.
Al Gore

United States

#5 Jun 20, 2011
So what I get from the article is that teachers must be very comfortable in their jobs that they don't ever leave. The aspirants to teaching positions are so many that they have a waiting list of many years to find a position.
Obviously teachers are extremely well paid, enjoy extremely generous benefits and excellent working conditions. Why then should a financially strapped school district even consider hitting up the overburdened taxpayers again? The typical taxpayer in El Paso works 12 months, not 9, gets nowhere the benefits, and earns significantly less than the $42K that teachers START receiving the very first year, no, my mistake, the very first 9 months!
Observer

El Paso, TX

#6 Jun 20, 2011
Chip wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Something to think about. Your right on too much big brother in some cases.
Yet, do disagree with Homeland security and the BP funding. This law enforcement
area does need help with the border. The other is Our nations ports being
neglected for too long. Lots of catchup on many border issues. It is time for
the graduates to look into joining the BP, and other Homeland security forces.
Nothing wrong with giving Our brightest graduates entrance into the military.
It is time for the Colleges/Universities to quit pushing Education degrees. In
many of these institutions Department heads, office managers, and others only
wanting to save their own jobs instead of doing what is right in directing
students to other Colleges of study. Our country is lacking in the computer,
sciences, mathematical, analytical fields, engineering, and other specialized
fields.
The record # of students in the Universities in the Education field is a cycle
of Professors, Directors, and other staff wanting to keep their jobs. It is clear
there is a shift in the area of employment opportunities and it should be
addressed.
UTEP is one of them with the office manager in Education, deans who are out of
touch with current situations. These individuals should be reevaluated to see
why they continue to push certain agendas. All the while being absent when students
need them at registration time. Excuse there are in meetings. These individuals
back each other up to save their job more than being there for the student.
It is getting late. Hope there is more feedback on the subject.
.
Agreed. But more funding for Homeland Security falls under the same logic. The border does need to be secured against unauthorized people from entering the country. However, way too much of the agency's manpower and resources is directed at enforcing drug laws, which are unconstitutional, ineffective and detrimental.

More can always be done when it comes to bureacracies that does not entail simply hiring more personel and requiring more funding. Blindly throwing more money at the problem instead of thinking critically and driving at the cause of the problem will only lead to bigger defecits and worsened problems. Federal spending for all things not Constitionally sanctioned should be cut, that includes education, war on drugs, social security, among many, many others. Charging the government with responsibilities it is not designed for only leads to bureacracy, ineffeciency, higher taxes, bigger govt, and the desecration of the most Sacred document in the land; the United States Constitution.
money for nothing

El Paso, TX

#7 Jun 20, 2011
Al Gore wrote:
So what I get from the article is that teachers must be very comfortable in their jobs that they don't ever leave. The aspirants to teaching positions are so many that they have a waiting list of many years to find a position.
Obviously teachers are extremely well paid, enjoy extremely generous benefits and excellent working conditions. Why then should a financially strapped school district even consider hitting up the overburdened taxpayers again? The typical taxpayer in El Paso works 12 months, not 9, gets nowhere the benefits, and earns significantly less than the $42K that teachers START receiving the very first year, no, my mistake, the very first 9 months!
What kind of argument is this?

The typical tax payer in El Paso has a high school diploma and is only qualified to work at phone centers or distribution plants packing and shipping boxes. Teachers are amongst the most educated tax payers in the city. It is a major investment to become a teacher.

It takes 4+ years of successful college courses (and $50,000 to $100,000 personal investment) as well as passing a multiple state amandated tests. The pay a teacher receives to live a very average middle class life style is VERY justified.

Extremely well paid? Extremely good benefits? While teaching is a noble profession that allows you to make a major difference in society... you don't get rich from it. A starting teacher makes in the low 40s and a teacher with 30 years (or more) experience might push 60 grand a year. Teachers have to pay hundreds of dollars a month for decent health insurance and MUCH more to insure spouses and children. They also pay for dental insurance, eye care insurance, disability insurance and life insurance. You PAY for retirement as well which means after working for 30+ years you have saved enough to be able to draw 70% to 80% of what you used to make for the duration of your retirement.

A teaching career means driving used Honda Accords and 1800 feet of housing for a family of four. If you want to get rich being a teacher you have to MARRY into it or INHERIT it.

And until you have tried to keep 22 3rd graders on task from 8am to 4pm from mid August through mid June, I wouldn't "slam" the job. When the economy is down, every talks about how great teachers supposedly have it. When the economy is doing well, everyone tells you "Don't become a teacher, there a better paying jobs coming out of college!"
So What

El Paso, TX

#8 Jun 20, 2011
Notice the picture that accompanies this article. The woman (assumably a teacher) is making balloon animals. How appropriate. THAT is the type of education you will receive in the El Paso public school system these days - which is why my children are WAY ahead of the learning curve being home-schooled.
money for nothing

El Paso, TX

#9 Jun 20, 2011
So What wrote:
Notice the picture that accompanies this article. The woman (assumably a teacher) is making balloon animals. How appropriate. THAT is the type of education you will receive in the El Paso public school system these days - which is why my children are WAY ahead of the learning curve being home-schooled.
You are full of cr@p. Take a look at the top 20% graduating from Franklin and Coronado. They have received quality educations and are going to top ranked schools.

The El Paso public school system is a reflection of the community around it. El Paso is a community of which the majority of adults barely have a high school diploma. A good percentage of the students/community speak English as a second language because they or their parents are new to the country and poorly educated as well.

Students whose parents value education are doing great. Students whose families don't value education or are just worried where the next meal will come from aren't doing as well.

This is not a cut on home schooling. I am confident you value education and your child will obtain high end degrees in the future.

However, there are plenty of kids just like yours at the local high school down the street. Whether in a public school, private school or home-schooled, parents who take education seriously will have children who are successful educationally.
Spartacus

El Paso, TX

#10 Jun 20, 2011
So What wrote:
Notice the picture that accompanies this article. The woman (assumably a teacher) is making balloon animals. How appropriate. THAT is the type of education you will receive in the El Paso public school system these days - which is why my children are WAY ahead of the learning curve being home-schooled.
Yeah right. Here is an assignment for you this week. Every time you run into someone you deem "successful" in life (twenty somethings to retirees), ask them where they went to high school. Then tally the number of public schools you get as opposed to home-schooled.
numkris

El Paso, TX

#11 Jun 20, 2011
Al Gore wrote:
So what I get from the article is that teachers must be very comfortable in their jobs that they don't ever leave. The aspirants to teaching positions are so many that they have a waiting list of many years to find a position.
Obviously teachers are extremely well paid, enjoy extremely generous benefits and excellent working conditions. Why then should a financially strapped school district even consider hitting up the overburdened taxpayers again? The typical taxpayer in El Paso works 12 months, not 9, gets nowhere the benefits, and earns significantly less than the $42K that teachers START receiving the very first year, no, my mistake, the very first 9 months!
3 months off, ha ha. I am a teacher in one of the big three districts and since Jun 3rd, I have had 6 days of training (equaling 48). This training is required for to maintain our certification. We also work 10-15 hours a day between grading papers, planning lessons, and chasing students who have not parent support, so they do not care about school. Anybody can tell you that teachers are not in the education business for the money. I personally spend over a $1,000 each nine weeks for activities in my classroom because while the appropriate practice in education is hands-on activities, the schools rarely have funds to provide materials. I have seen some of those "taxpayers" who thought it would be an easy ride, leave the profession quickly because they that their work does not get to stay within those easy hours. Next time your children get an opportunity that prepares them to not have to take that minimum wage job, thank the teacher who makes it possible. Then instead of being against us, work with us to make it better.
numkris

El Paso, TX

#12 Jun 20, 2011
So What wrote:
Notice the picture that accompanies this article. The woman (assumably a teacher) is making balloon animals. How appropriate. THAT is the type of education you will receive in the El Paso public school system these days - which is why my children are WAY ahead of the learning curve being home-schooled.
I am sure you believe that you are doing better than we will, but I personally have witnessed in school and when I attended school how unprepared those students are for college. I also have seen students unable to acclimate in the college setting when they can get in because they are unprepared for strict guidlines, timelines, and instructors who do not wait for them to be ready to move on when taking notes. That doesn't even cover the fact they do not understand that in college you can not take a day off anytime you want as long as you get your work completed. While this is not an attack on Home School because I have seen it done effectively, but not all parents are equipped nor able to teach better than the school districts.
numkris

El Paso, TX

#13 Jun 20, 2011
Realize that the unemployed teachers in El Paso are because for some reason they do not want to leave for other markets. Teachers who graduate from UTEP are the most sought after graduates by all states and all over the state because of thier exposure to ESL students. Additionally, Dallas school districts (which pay between 60k - 80k) come to El Paso and hire as many teachers from El Paso who will apply, qualify and leave because we have some of the best training in the State. When the "taxpayers" who believe that it is perfect the way it is or that they pay too much already, remember that we get the smallest slice if the state funds. Where Dallas gets $5,000 per student we get $3,000 if you are mad go to the State and ask why your child is less important than the students in Dallas. Additionally, we score better on State Assessments because the teachers who do teach your child for less money, help to contribute to the learning, in order to not short the El Paso students.
Craig

El Paso, TX

#14 Jun 20, 2011
money for nothing wrote:
<quoted text>
What kind of argument is this?
The typical tax payer in El Paso has a high school diploma and is only qualified to work at phone centers or distribution plants packing and shipping boxes. Teachers are amongst the most educated tax payers in the city. It is a major investment to become a teacher.
It takes 4+ years of successful college courses (and $50,000 to $100,000 personal investment) as well as passing a multiple state amandated tests. The pay a teacher receives to live a very average middle class life style is VERY justified.
Extremely well paid? Extremely good benefits? While teaching is a noble profession that allows you to make a major difference in society... you don't get rich from it. A starting teacher makes in the low 40s and a teacher with 30 years (or more) experience might push 60 grand a year. Teachers have to pay hundreds of dollars a month for decent health insurance and MUCH more to insure spouses and children. They also pay for dental insurance, eye care insurance, disability insurance and life insurance. You PAY for retirement as well which means after working for 30+ years you have saved enough to be able to draw 70% to 80% of what you used to make for the duration of your retirement.
A teaching career means driving used Honda Accords and 1800 feet of housing for a family of four. If you want to get rich being a teacher you have to MARRY into it or INHERIT it.
And until you have tried to keep 22 3rd graders on task from 8am to 4pm from mid August through mid June, I wouldn't "slam" the job. When the economy is down, every talks about how great teachers supposedly have it. When the economy is doing well, everyone tells you "Don't become a teacher, there a better paying jobs coming out of college!"
I agree 100%. I'd like to add that a teacher's job doesn't end at 4:00 pm either. The teacher still needs to grade and prepare lesson plans after school, which bites away at quality family time. The same applies for weekends. Furthermore, a teacher doesn't simply teach, but quuite often they represent the only positive force in some students' lives. Teachers are known to make a difference between life and death for many of these teachers.

Teaching is a professional vocation. You need to be licensed by the state. But teaching is also an art form, which means that creativity needs to be factored into your vocation if you want to increase your efficacy as an educator. In other words, you become better at it as the years go by. Anyway, since teaching is a professional vocation, everyone should expect they be treated like one, with a good salary, benefits, and a solid retirement package. Their importance can never be overstated, that is, they are the ones in the trenches shaping, molding, and preparing your sons and daughters for the perils of life.
Local Dude

United States

#15 Jun 20, 2011
Al Gore wrote:
So what I get from the article is that teachers must be very comfortable in their jobs that they don't ever leave. The aspirants to teaching positions are so many that they have a waiting list of many years to find a position.
Obviously teachers are extremely well paid, enjoy extremely generous benefits and excellent working conditions. Why then should a financially strapped school district even consider hitting up the overburdened taxpayers again? The typical taxpayer in El Paso works 12 months, not 9, gets nowhere the benefits, and earns significantly less than the $42K that teachers START receiving the very first year, no, my mistake, the very first 9 months!
Where do doctors, lawyers, and other professionals come from? Last time I checked they weren't grown in a lab you retard. They are inspired and taught by TEACHERS! Yet you and others criticize them? Shame on you!
Araham Bejia

El Paso, TX

#16 Jun 20, 2011
As a substitute teacher, I've noticed that one of the school districts here has a large number of inept substitute teachers and doubt that they are the exception. There are a great number of substitute teachers who do not speak English making it obvious they do not have a college education, or college credits for that matter.Sometimes I wonder if they accept people form Mexico, Juarez mainly, who somehow fake a college education. Unfortunately a lot of these subs have jobs everyday of the week because of politics. They become acquainted with the people who work at the offices, mainly secretaries, who put them down for jobs everyday.
The students are the ones who are getting cheated.I've seen classes that might have a handful students who do not speak Spanish conducted in Spanish by some of these subs.
As a sub with an unrelated college degree, I sometimes struggle to grasp the teacher's class plan but
I try my best.I try never to conduct a class in Spanish unless instructed to do so such as in a Spanish H.S. class.
The quality of subs is definitely low and the only way it will be improved is by starting to replace the marginal subs with certified teachers.Favoritism must stop and if you're questioning why substitutes usually get no respect, I just gave you the answer.
Again, he students are ultimately the ones who are getting cheated.By the way I am a Hispanic
Tejano con huevos

El Paso, TX

#17 Jun 20, 2011
All substitutes should be required to have an education degree, here we have uneducated people teaching our children. This should not be permitted specially when you have absolutely no experience and no background clearance.
DIG DUG

El Paso, TX

#18 Jun 20, 2011
teachers need to move, their hiring in Amarillo, Lubbock,Alabama
Concerned

El Paso, TX

#19 Jun 20, 2011
If some of these graduates, like the one in the article will take that degree somewhere else, then perhaps a job will be available to them, especially those with the bilingual certification. Unfortunately many in El Paso equate bilingual with only Spanish and many who maor in that at UTEP do the bilingual so they can use more Spanish then English when THEY are taking classes. As with any field, you need to go where the job is. But, many who do education degrees in El Paso are young mothers who cannot afford to leave the extended family child care they have here or older students who are entrenched here and cannot leave. It is unfortunate that several of these students also do not have very good English conversational/comprehension skills and in terms of professional presentation, would not last long in the interview process. The part that trips many of the UTEP students is the reading comprehension aspect of the certification exams. Good for the person who is going to Kansas to take a position. Maybe in the future, El Paso can offer her a job but she will have experienced a little bit more of the world when she returns.
Dont know Englich Sub

El Paso, TX

#20 Jun 20, 2011
I esorry. Wut ju say?

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