Canton Schools' Drug Sweep In June Still Reverberates

Full story: Hartford Courant

A voice over the public-address system had ordered students and staffers to stay in their classrooms.

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E E E

Chicago, IL

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#369
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Canton Parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I think both you and Misplaced Texan have far too much time on your hands to be sitting here day after day, beating a dead horse. Don't you have something more important to do, like work and stop bothering us with your idiotic views and misleading information. Try getting involved in you own towns business and stay out of ours!
Dude. This is a public forum. All opinions are welcome.

But since you don't care about the 4th Amendment, why should you bother with the first?

Maybe you'd be more comfortable if we moved your town to Cuba or 1970s era Spain?
LEO

Farmington, CT

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#370
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Misplaced Texan wrote:
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As long as nothing is found, you must assume it is a false hit.
I fully understand and agree with the presumption of innocence (the assumption that they are false hits). I'm just trying to relate why the numbers in a controlled environment contrast so starkly with the numbers in the field. The reality is somewhere in the middle of those two numbers. Also, you must realize that the 35% number posted earlier isn't representative of all K-9 teams, just the one mentioned in that particular article.

“Death to humans!”

Since: Jul 08

A long way from here...

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#371
Oct 10, 2008
 

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LEO wrote:
<quoted text>
I fully understand and agree with the presumption of innocence (the assumption that they are false hits). I'm just trying to relate why the numbers in a controlled environment contrast so starkly with the numbers in the field. The reality is somewhere in the middle of those two numbers. Also, you must realize that the 35% number posted earlier isn't representative of all K-9 teams, just the one mentioned in that particular article.
I'm curious what the average would be in field conditions, and I still object to using the dogs in a random search, regardless of what it stated in the school handbook. If the superintendent said they had no reason to suspect anything before initiating this search, why was the search done? To me, that presents a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude toward ALL students.

I understand the point you're trying to make, and since I don't have the information concening natinoal averages, I won't try to argue this point further right now.

This whole policy seems pretty sketchy to me.

I'm also curious if the administrative offices, faculty lounges and cars in the faculty parking lot were included in this search, or in the school's random drug search policy.
E E E

Chicago, IL

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#372
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Misplaced Texan wrote:
...I'm also curious if the administrative offices, faculty lounges and cars in the faculty parking lot were included in this search, or in the school's random drug search policy.
Of course not.

Besides, the teachers has advance notice of the search. They'd have to be pretty darned stoopid to bring their goodies to school that day...
E E E

Chicago, IL

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#373
Oct 10, 2008
 
"had"

"...the teachers HAD advance notice..."

I gotta do something about my TTD...
Get Real

Granby, CT

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#374
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Canton Parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I think both you and Misplaced Texan have far too much time on your hands to be sitting here day after day, beating a dead horse. Don't you have something more important to do, like work and stop bothering us with your idiotic views and misleading information. Try getting involved in you own towns business and stay out of ours!
There are those of us who appreciate their opinions & their knowledge. They are not a bother except maybe to you. Try tolerance of others opinions whether or not you agree with them. Otherwise, take your own advice.
Get Real

Granby, CT

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#375
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Misplaced Texan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious what the average would be in field conditions, and I still object to using the dogs in a random search, regardless of what it stated in the school handbook. If the superintendent said they had no reason to suspect anything before initiating this search, why was the search done? To me, that presents a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude toward ALL students.
I understand the point you're trying to make, and since I don't have the information concening natinoal averages, I won't try to argue this point further right now.
This whole policy seems pretty sketchy to me.
I'm also curious if the administrative offices, faculty lounges and cars in the faculty parking lot were included in this search, or in the school's random drug search policy.
what it seems to come down to is that 'students' under a certain age, have no rights. Certainly not equal rights.

Since: May 08

Brunswick, ME

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#376
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Canton Parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I think both you and Misplaced Texan have far too much time on your hands to be sitting here day after day, beating a dead horse. Don't you have something more important to do, like work and stop bothering us with your idiotic views and misleading information. Try getting involved in you own towns business and stay out of ours!
I'm on vacation.

Vernon has the same policy as Canton.

You're the one that CHOOSES to read this thread.

Since: May 08

Brunswick, ME

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#377
Oct 10, 2008
 
LEO wrote:
<quoted text>
I fully understand and agree with the presumption of innocence (the assumption that they are false hits). I'm just trying to relate why the numbers in a controlled environment contrast so starkly with the numbers in the field. The reality is somewhere in the middle of those two numbers. Also, you must realize that the 35% number posted earlier isn't representative of all K-9 teams, just the one mentioned in that particular article.
Correct, that was just one dog. I'm sure some dogs are highly accurate while others not so much.

I'm surprised detections dogs aren't required to undergo certification/recertification like other testing devices do (radar detectors, BAC tester, etc).
Get Real

Granby, CT

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#378
Oct 10, 2008
 
PatrickCT wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, that was just one dog. I'm sure some dogs are highly accurate while others not so much.
I'm surprised detections dogs aren't required to undergo certification/recertification like other testing devices do (radar detectors, BAC tester, etc).
excellent points/questions
LEO

Farmington, CT

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#379
Oct 10, 2008
 
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
what it seems to come down to is that 'students' under a certain age, have no rights. Certainly not equal rights.
It has nothing to do with "students" or "age". Police K-9s are brought through court houses, airports, package delivery terminals and other public places on a regular basis. If the dog(s) alert on a vehicle, package or a locker while they are there, those areas are searched as well.

Since: May 08

Brunswick, ME

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#380
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
what it seems to come down to is that 'students' under a certain age, have no rights. Certainly not equal rights.
Yep, I had to read up on "in loco parentis" that LEO mentioned.

The Canton search wouldn't fly at a public university or even the teachers since now you're dealing with adults.

I return to my argument that our fundamental rights exist at birth, not when we turn 18... or is it 21?
LEO

Farmington, CT

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#381
Oct 10, 2008
 

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PatrickCT wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, that was just one dog. I'm sure some dogs are highly accurate while others not so much.
I'm surprised detections dogs aren't required to undergo certification/recertification like other testing devices do (radar detectors, BAC tester, etc).
In CT the K-9 teams are initially certified and then undergo refresher training on a regular basis. Their performance is constantly monitored and in all instances where a K-9 is used, a report is completed with the results of the search.
LEO

Farmington, CT

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#382
Oct 10, 2008
 
PatrickCT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, I had to read up on "in loco parentis" that LEO mentioned.
The Canton search wouldn't fly at a public university or even the teachers since now you're dealing with adults.
I return to my argument that our fundamental rights exist at birth, not when we turn 18... or is it 21?
The Canton search would fly at a public university because it is based on the plain view/plain smell doctrine not on T.L.O.
Regarding your fundamental rights, a juvenile actually has increased (not diminished)protections when dealing with law enforcement. Though T.L.O. used a standard of reasonableness, you must understand that the definition of probable cause contains "reasonable" in it: facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being or is about to be committed. That is one of many definitions of which most use the word reasonable or prudent.

Since: May 08

Brunswick, ME

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#383
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Now we're back to opinion regarding whether or not a dog sniff constitutes a search. ;)
Get Real

Granby, CT

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#384
Oct 10, 2008
 

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LEO wrote:
<quoted text>
The Canton search would fly at a public university because it is based on the plain view/plain smell doctrine not on T.L.O.
Regarding your fundamental rights, a juvenile actually has increased (not diminished)protections when dealing with law enforcement. Though T.L.O. used a standard of reasonableness, you must understand that the definition of probable cause contains "reasonable" in it: facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being or is about to be committed. That is one of many definitions of which most use the word reasonable or prudent.
I'd like to see them try it...there would be an uproar for good reason.

reasonable according to whom?
E E E

Chicago, IL

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#385
Oct 10, 2008
 
PatrickCT wrote:
Now we're back to opinion regarding whether or not a dog sniff constitutes a search. ;)
I would say that anything not readily sensed by the human officers' eyes, ears, or noses, are found via "search"

but that's just my opinion.

Since: May 08

Brunswick, ME

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#386
Oct 10, 2008
 
Just a bit of new information. It looks like about 42 lockers were searched.

The dog had a hit on 14 lockers so the police searched those lockers and the lockers to each side of them.

If this article is correct that would mean the dog had a hit on 6 lockers at the high school and 8 lockers at the middle school?!
Hope from Enfield

Enfield, CT

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#387
Oct 10, 2008
 

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Misplaced Texan wrote:
<quoted text>
I may sound kind of harsh and selfish - I've never been good at putting my thoughts down on paper. I'll steal something from Ayn Rand, who states the concept a lot more eloquently than I can:
"Since there is no such entity as 'the public,' since the public is merely a number of individuals, the idea that 'the public interest' supersedes private interests and rights can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others."
. Ayn Rand created a doctrine of rational hedonism, supported by unfettered capitalism and the rights of successful individuals at the expense of the community. A devout atheist, She taught that charity is not a virtue.
I am so thankful that I have a different meaning of our lives.

Since: Jun 08

Newington, CT

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#388
Oct 10, 2008
 
George wrote:
This story has a huge bias slant. You cannot call it reporting!
The students are described as victims while the actions of the police are made them to look like thugs. Students are bringing guns, drugs and knives to school today. The police need to be on guard for their safety. Maybe some intimidation by the police will make up from the lack of parenting? A few kids getting their pride hurt is a lot better than losing their lives to drugs. Do you not think they will be embarrassed when they enter the "real world"?
Teachers have their "discipline" hands tied, are the police next?
yea except that it's impossible to "lose your life" to marijuana.

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