Fear keeps archaic beliefs alive

Fear keeps archaic beliefs alive

There are 302 comments on the Berkshire Eagle story from Feb 21, 2009, titled Fear keeps archaic beliefs alive. In it, Berkshire Eagle reports that:

The Eagle editorial of Feb. 13 endorses Darwin's principle of evolution as accepted science and urges those who espouse "intelligent design," which is essentially the same as "creationism," to keep their ...

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Tricia

Huntington, MA

#1 Feb 21, 2009
If Dr. Kinzel has put all of his faith in science, then that is his right. For those who still choose to practice their religious beliefs, more power to them. To belittle these people as being somehow not modern enough for Mr. Kinzels so-called rational sensibilities is just another example of extreme intolerance. Science may keep the body safe, but it is our higher beliefs that speak to our souls. Our souls need nurturing as well. How dare Mr. Kinzel describe people of religious faith as modern day cave dwellers.

I agree with Mr. Kinzel on only one point and that is that the resurgence of religious beliefs of all kinds is a response to there being so much emphasis on pure rational thought. Our bodies may be surviving well into old age, but our souls are starved. Religion will meet many of the needs of the soul. Without religion, people will turn to any number of unhealthy ways to meet the needs of their souls. Anything from drugs or joining gangs to have a sense of belonging and the violence that results from these actions is not life-affirming. So religion has its place in our lives and to deny that is to only encourage more radical activities to rise up to take its place. Extreme religions will rise up such as the radical muslims who would deny basic rights to women. Everything is about balance in life. Science has its place, but so does religion.

Since: Dec 06

Urbana, Illinois

#2 Feb 21, 2009
Tricia wrote:
If Dr. Kinzel has put all of his faith in science, then that is his right. For those who still choose to practice their religious beliefs, more power to them. To belittle these people as being somehow not modern enough for Mr. Kinzels so-called rational sensibilities is just another example of extreme intolerance. Science may keep the body safe, but it is our higher beliefs that speak to our souls. Our souls need nurturing as well. How dare Mr. Kinzel describe people of religious faith as modern day cave dwellers.
I agree with Mr. Kinzel on only one point and that is that the resurgence of religious beliefs of all kinds is a response to there being so much emphasis on pure rational thought. Our bodies may be surviving well into old age, but our souls are starved. Religion will meet many of the needs of the soul. Without religion, people will turn to any number of unhealthy ways to meet the needs of their souls. Anything from drugs or joining gangs to have a sense of belonging and the violence that results from these actions is not life-affirming. So religion has its place in our lives and to deny that is to only encourage more radical activities to rise up to take its place. Extreme religions will rise up such as the radical muslims who would deny basic rights to women. Everything is about balance in life. Science has its place, but so does religion.
True. Religion does have its place... but its place is NOT in the science class, which is where "ID people" want it...

People inspired by religion should feed the poor, plant wildflowers, clean the water, protect the air, made sure that resources are channeled to everyone...

I don't see a lot of that... some, but not a lot.
Ernest T Bass

Nashua, NH

#3 Feb 21, 2009
“Nowhere was Darwin able to point to one bona fide case of natural selection having actually generated evolutionary change in nature….Ultimately, the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century.” Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crises (Bethesda, Maryland: Adler & Adler, 1986) pp. 62, 358.
Ernest T Bass

Nashua, NH

#4 Feb 21, 2009
“Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution, we do not have one iota of fact.” Dr. T. N. Tahmisian Evolution and the Emperor's New Clothes by N.J. Mitchell (United Kingdom: Roydon Publications, 1983
Ernest T Bass

Nashua, NH

#5 Feb 21, 2009
"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless." Louis Bounoure. The Advocate, 8 March 1984
Ernest T Bass

Nashua, NH

#6 Feb 21, 2009
"If complex organisms ever did evolve from simpler ones, the process took place contrary to the laws of nature, and must have involved what may rightly be termed the miraculous." R.E.D. Clark, Victoria Institute (1943),
Ernest T Bass

Nashua, NH

#7 Feb 21, 2009
"The number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory." - Charles Darwin 1902 edition
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#8 Feb 21, 2009
Ernie, got any evidence instead of arguments from authority from apologists?

Your behaviour here is little more than spam.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#9 Feb 21, 2009
1986

1983

1984

1943

A few more "quotes" revealing someone's OPINION.

Of course, no actual evidence was presented which would falsify the Theory of Evolution, such as:

rabbit fossils in the Cambrian,

human DNA radically based on silica (humans were created from a lump of dirt, after all) and radically different from that of every other organism on the planet,

dino fossils mixed in with those of Noah's neighbors,

the big wooden boat,

a 60 Minutes interview with God where He flat out says that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Since: Aug 08

Gansevoort, NY

#10 Feb 21, 2009
The Fossil Record


Geological strata containing an
evolutionary sequence of fossils
Remains of animals and plants found in sedimentary rock deposits give us an indisputable record of past changes through time. This evidence attests to the fact that there has been a tremendous variety of living things. Some extinct species had traits that were transitional between major groups of organisms. Their existence confirms that species are not fixed but can evolve into other species over time.

The evidence also shows that what have appeared to be gaps in the fossil record are due to incomplete data collection. The more that we learn about the evolution of specific species lines, the more that these so-called gaps or "missing links in the chain of evolution" are filled with transitional fossil specimens. One of the first of these gaps to be filled was between small bipedal dinosaurs and birds. Just two years after Darwin published On the Origin of Species, a 150-145 million year old fossil of Archaeopteryx was found in southern Germany. It had jaws with teeth and a long bony tail like dinosaurs, broad wings and feathers like birds, and skeletal features of both. This discovery verified the assumption that birds had reptilian ancestors.

All of the tens of thousands of types of proteins in living things are made of only 20 kinds of amino acids. Despite the great diversity of life on our planet, the simple language of the DNA code is the same for all living things. This is evidence of the fundamental molecular unity of life.


In addition to molecular similarities, most living things are alike in that they either get the energy needed for growth, repair, and reproduction directly from sunlight, by photosynthesis , or they get it indirectly by consuming green plants and other organisms that eat plants.

Many groups of species share the same types of body structures because they inherited them from a common ancestor that had them. This is the case with the vertebrates , which are the animals that have internal skeletons. The arms of humans, the forelegs of dogs and cats, the wings of birds, and the flippers of whales and seals all have the same types of bones (humerus, radius, and ulna) because they have retained these traits of their shared common ancient vertebrate ancestor.

All of these major chemical and anatomical similarities between living things can be most logically accounted for by assuming that they either share a common ancestry or they came into existence as a result of similar natural processes. These facts make it difficult to accept a theory of special and independent creation of different species.

That's all the evidence I need!
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#11 Feb 21, 2009
I think that what we KNOW is that we really don't KNOW.

And one strong argument against "Darwinism" is that stupid people often do not themselves die as a result of their stupidity, but often it is others who do.

Since: Apr 08

Walla Walla, WA

#12 Feb 21, 2009
Tricia wrote:
If Dr. Kinzel has put all of his faith in science, then that is his right. For those who still choose to practice their religious beliefs, more power to them. To belittle these people as being somehow not modern enough for Mr. Kinzels so-called rational sensibilities is just another example of extreme intolerance. Science may keep the body safe, but it is our higher beliefs that speak to our souls. Our souls need nurturing as well. How dare Mr. Kinzel describe people of religious faith as modern day cave dwellers.
I agree with Mr. Kinzel on only one point and that is that the resurgence of religious beliefs of all kinds is a response to there being so much emphasis on pure rational thought. Our bodies may be surviving well into old age, but our souls are starved. Religion will meet many of the needs of the soul. Without religion, people will turn to any number of unhealthy ways to meet the needs of their souls. Anything from drugs or joining gangs to have a sense of belonging and the violence that results from these actions is not life-affirming. So religion has its place in our lives and to deny that is to only encourage more radical activities to rise up to take its place. Extreme religions will rise up such as the radical muslims who would deny basic rights to women. Everything is about balance in life. Science has its place, but so does religion.
Many of us put no "faith" in science. Simply because no "faith" is required to understand science. Rather, all you need is a fair amount of curiosity, and a desire to learn.

As to folks needing religion so they don't turn to drugs, gangs, crime, etc.- Wasn't Pastor Ted doing meth? Plus, what is the percentage of the US population who are atheist? And, what percentage of the prison population is atheist? Hmmmm?

Finally, it's not just those muslim folks who want to put women in their "place", plenty of fundy christians want to as well.
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#13 Feb 21, 2009
If women truly knew their "place" they would not have fallen for the Rockefeller funded CIA activities (Steinem and MS Magazine, for one) that advanced the "Women's Liberation" movement.

In one felswoop, the number of payers into the Income Tax virtually doubled, families were increasingly fractionated, the care of children in their formative years was entrusted to other than family -- often total strangers, the divorce rate doubled and welfare rolls increased, morality sagged as we all did what felt good, and alcohol and drug use skyrocketed.

Not totally responsible by any means, the Lib movement was helped along with the encouragement of Hollywood and the MSM. And here we are.

Since: Aug 08

Gansevoort, NY

#14 Feb 21, 2009
fly on da wall wrote:
If women truly knew their "place" they would not have fallen for the Rockefeller funded CIA activities (Steinem and MS Magazine, for one) that advanced the "Women's Liberation" movement.
In one felswoop, the number of payers into the Income Tax virtually doubled, families were increasingly fractionated, the care of children in their formative years was entrusted to other than family -- often total strangers, the divorce rate doubled and welfare rolls increased, morality sagged as we all did what felt good, and alcohol and drug use skyrocketed.
Not totally responsible by any means, the Lib movement was helped along with the encouragement of Hollywood and the MSM. And here we are.
If you want to blame the equality of women on the ills that have befallen tis culture, go for it. But, the intelligent female faction of the world knows that our rights were due, and nothing less was acceptable.

Why on Earth couldn't those males who claimed to be better at everything than we were...stand up and do their part in parenting the children they helped create? Because they are/were still in the stone age where men clubbed their wives and kept them barefoot and pregnant, that's why! Well, we've come a long way baby and if paying taxes and juggling parenting with working outside the home is what must be done, you're lucky it's the wmoen of the world who do it - cause the men weren't about to.

If you're so worried about the fractioning of the American family, start talking to your buddies about making a concerted effort to actually be there to carry their share of the load in regards to their kids. After all, they were paying for welfare because they were the ones who refused to "let" their wives get an education or a job outside the home.

Divorces and welfare were increased when women used their voices to speak out against sexism, voting, equal pay for equal work etc. It's not our fault we can't support the family you helped us make, it's yours! Let's hope we teach our children better than your taught you.

My advice to you - teach your kids (both genders)how top support themselves! Empower girls to get an education and use it. Teach boys to get acquainted with the working of machines inside their homes besides the TV.

With the economy what it is, both genders need to work to afford even the basics so both should be prepared.

As far as our "place", its wherever we want it to be! You really need to evolve and join the rest of the world in this century!

Since: Apr 08

Walla Walla, WA

#15 Feb 21, 2009
fly on da wall wrote:
If women truly knew their "place" they would not have fallen for the Rockefeller funded CIA activities (Steinem and MS Magazine, for one) that advanced the "Women's Liberation" movement.
In one felswoop, the number of payers into the Income Tax virtually doubled, families were increasingly fractionated, the care of children in their formative years was entrusted to other than family -- often total strangers, the divorce rate doubled and welfare rolls increased, morality sagged as we all did what felt good, and alcohol and drug use skyrocketed.
Not totally responsible by any means, the Lib movement was helped along with the encouragement of Hollywood and the MSM. And here we are.
Yeah, times were so much better when we could beat and rape our wives and there were no laws against it. Things were so much better when states still had Head and Master laws. Things were so much better when females were first the property of their fathers and then their husbands.

Sorry dude, you might want to pop on over to the 21st century for a while.
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#16 Feb 21, 2009
Another Reader 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want to blame the equality of women on the ills that have befallen tis culture, go for it. But, the intelligent female faction of the world knows that our rights were due, and nothing less was acceptable.
Why on Earth couldn't those males who claimed to be better at everything than we were...stand up and do their part in parenting the children they helped create? Because they are/were still in the stone age where men clubbed their wives and kept them barefoot and pregnant, that's why! Well, we've come a long way baby and if paying taxes and juggling parenting with working outside the home is what must be done, you're lucky it's the wmoen of the world who do it - cause the men weren't about to.
If you're so worried about the fractioning of the American family, start talking to your buddies about making a concerted effort to actually be there to carry their share of the load in regards to their kids. After all, they were paying for welfare because they were the ones who refused to "let" their wives get an education or a job outside the home.
Divorces and welfare were increased when women used their voices to speak out against sexism, voting, equal pay for equal work etc. It's not our fault we can't support the family you helped us make, it's yours! Let's hope we teach our children better than your taught you.
My advice to you - teach your kids (both genders)how top support themselves! Empower girls to get an education and use it. Teach boys to get acquainted with the working of machines inside their homes besides the TV.
With the economy what it is, both genders need to work to afford even the basics so both should be prepared.
As far as our "place", its wherever we want it to be! You really need to evolve and join the rest of the world in this century!
You were so busy constructing your case for the liberated woman you didn't read or only picked out what you thought you could use to indirectly attack me, who you see as anachronistic.

I feel real bad for the poor sonovabitch you must have pussywhipped -- or maybe you're of a different differing persuasion -- and God help the children.

The battle of the sexes (O, many pardons, it's "genders" for you enlightened ones) that has been ongoing for centuries has "evolved" to the point where there's so little difference between them it's almost pointless.

And one wonders why kids today have so many psychological problems and lack of identity.

Party on, and don't trip over your inflated ego.
Chaz

Plymouth, UK

#17 Feb 21, 2009
fly on da wall wrote:
<quoted text>
You were so busy constructing your case for the liberated woman you didn't read or only picked out what you thought you could use to indirectly attack me, who you see as anachronistic.
I feel real bad for the poor sonovabitch you must have pussywhipped -- or maybe you're of a different differing persuasion -- and God help the children.
The battle of the sexes (O, many pardons, it's "genders" for you enlightened ones) that has been ongoing for centuries has "evolved" to the point where there's so little difference between them it's almost pointless.
And one wonders why kids today have so many psychological problems and lack of identity.
Party on, and don't trip over your inflated ego.
Congratulations on making a completely useless post that fails to address so much as a single one of Another Reader's arguments.

Grow up. You're not man, just a boy incapable of constructing a reasoned argument.
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#18 Feb 21, 2009
Primewonk wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, times were so much better when we could beat and rape our wives and there were no laws against it. Things were so much better when states still had Head and Master laws. Things were so much better when females were first the property of their fathers and then their husbands.
Sorry dude, you might want to pop on over to the 21st century for a while.
How far we have come!

While it may not involve married couples, there is today far more incidence of what you refer to than when I was growing up in the forties and fifties. Just read your District Court news. The same types who engaged in that type of behaviour then will do it today -- and there are MORE of them, and women abusers as well. And how about the rampant child abuse? and abductions? murders? No, kindly do not tell me how much "better off" we are today.

Throw-away relationships are the norm. Our divorce rate, among those who are even married, is the highest in the world. Homosexuality? Don't even get me started there. We are a decadent society and deserve what we are getting.

Abortion (women's right to murder), drug use, and impressed attitudes have cheapened life to where respect for one another is nearly non-existent.
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#19 Feb 21, 2009
Chaz wrote:
<quoted text>
Congratulations on making a completely useless post that fails to address so much as a single one of Another Reader's arguments.
Grow up. You're not man, just a boy incapable of constructing a reasoned argument.
Too bad your prejudicial mindset has kept you from noticing that it was MY own points that were ignored in her self-righteous reply.

You must be yet one more of the successfully brainwashed.
fly on da wall

Westfield, MA

#20 Feb 21, 2009
Another Reader 1 wrote:
The Fossil Record
Geological strata containing an
evolutionary sequence of fossils
Remains of animals and plants found in sedimentary rock deposits give us an indisputable record of past changes through time. This evidence attests to the fact that there has been a tremendous variety of living things. Some extinct species had traits that were transitional between major groups of organisms. Their existence confirms that species are not fixed but can evolve into other species over time.
The evidence also shows that what have appeared to be gaps in the fossil record are due to incomplete data collection. The more that we learn about the evolution of specific species lines, the more that these so-called gaps or "missing links in the chain of evolution" are filled with transitional fossil specimens. One of the first of these gaps to be filled was between small bipedal dinosaurs and birds. Just two years after Darwin published On the Origin of Species, a 150-145 million year old fossil of Archaeopteryx was found in southern Germany. It had jaws with teeth and a long bony tail like dinosaurs, broad wings and feathers like birds, and skeletal features of both. This discovery verified the assumption that birds had reptilian ancestors.
All of the tens of thousands of types of proteins in living things are made of only 20 kinds of amino acids. Despite the great diversity of life on our planet, the simple language of the DNA code is the same for all living things. This is evidence of the fundamental molecular unity of life.
In addition to molecular similarities, most living things are alike in that they either get the energy needed for growth, repair, and reproduction directly from sunlight, by photosynthesis , or they get it indirectly by consuming green plants and other organisms that eat plants.
Many groups of species share the same types of body structures because they inherited them from a common ancestor that had them. This is the case with the vertebrates , which are the animals that have internal skeletons. The arms of humans, the forelegs of dogs and cats, the wings of birds, and the flippers of whales and seals all have the same types of bones (humerus, radius, and ulna) because they have retained these traits of their shared common ancient vertebrate ancestor.
All of these major chemical and anatomical similarities between living things can be most logically accounted for by assuming that they either share a common ancestry or they came into existence as a result of similar natural processes. These facts make it difficult to accept a theory of special and independent creation of different species.
That's all the evidence I need!
Please provide verifiable citations for your "facts".

Or have you pulled the above from the same orifice as your other post? Conjecture will not do.

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