Inherent flaw in for-profit system

The United States' current for-profit health insurance industry is the only one in the world, and for good reason. Full Story
Candy

AOL

#1 Jul 29, 2009
Please explain how single payer works better, when Canadians, Norwegians, English, etc, come to the United States for testing & treatment because they cannot get it in their own countries after strokes, falling downstairs, etc.

Everyone who has family members in other countries knows this. And of course
different regions of these countries function better than others; thus you have different stories coming out.

I for one, do not belive the government will be more benevolent than the insurance companies. It's all about bottom line. Without competition, there is no reason to perform better.
Francis A

Clifton Park, NY

#2 Jul 29, 2009
Candy wrote:
Please explain how single payer works better, when Canadians, Norwegians, English, etc, come to the United States for testing & treatment because they cannot get it in their own countries after strokes, falling downstairs, etc.
Everyone who has family members in other countries knows this. And of course
different regions of these countries function better than others; thus you have different stories coming out.
I for one, do not belive the government will be more benevolent than the insurance companies. It's all about bottom line. Without competition, there is no reason to perform better.
you are arguing from faulty premises. The insurance gods must love you because they have succeeded in putting fear in your thinking.

1. There are plenty of stories of Americans going to other countries for procedures (and prescriptions) they cannot afford in good old USA...

2. Everyone with family members in other countries knows....??? That is a sweeping and patently untrue statement.

3. In the USA, to the insurance folks, it's all about MONEY... how to make the most money off you. Such a system does not have your well-being at heart. When insurance companies refuse to pay for prompt treatment for breast cancer because there may have been a pre-existing illness (try acne!), there is something dreadfully wrong. Corporate greed has replaced human compassion.
Sanity

Midland, TX

#3 Jul 29, 2009
Francis A wrote:
<quoted text>
you are arguing from faulty premises. The insurance gods must love you because they have succeeded in putting fear in your thinking.
1. There are plenty of stories of Americans going to other countries for procedures (and prescriptions) they cannot afford in good old USA...
2. Everyone with family members in other countries knows....??? That is a sweeping and patently untrue statement.
3. In the USA, to the insurance folks, it's all about MONEY... how to make the most money off you. Such a system does not have your well-being at heart. When insurance companies refuse to pay for prompt treatment for breast cancer because there may have been a pre-existing illness (try acne!), there is something dreadfully wrong. Corporate greed has replaced human compassion.
Egg-salent piece of propaganda, Francis.

Agitation and Propaganda will have Big Brother in charge in no time.

If the gov't should control health care, shouldn't it control housing and food?

Sadly, Orwell did see the future, and the Obama-/Big Brotherbots will turn in any Winston or Julia who dares to question.

Corporate greed has not, nor ever will replace compassion, but Left-Wing viciousness and hatred may just replace good ol' American values and competitveness...

Sieg Obama.

(Man,'liberals' are seriously nasty people...)

[:-(

Have a good day.
Truth

West Wareham, MA

#4 Jul 29, 2009
Because of red tape it takes eight to twelve weeks to begin treatment (Chemo/radiation) for cancer in the UK.

In the United States it takes fewer than two weeks to begin.

Consequently, patients in the United States have a much higher survival rate than anywhere else in the world.

Let's be careful that we don't throw out good health care because we want to be as 'civilized' as the rest of the world.
Prove me wrong

Schenectady, NY

#5 Jul 29, 2009
Health coverage is not a right. It is something you buy. Millions who can afford it do not buy it. Millions who are eligible for it (Medicare etc) do not apply for it. This is fact. All of it.
Prove me wrong

Schenectady, NY

#6 Jul 29, 2009
Oh yeah. People who want government run health care want to get something for nothing. Period.
Brian in MA - not MN

Minneapolis, MN

#7 Jul 29, 2009
Sanity wrote:
<quoted text>
Egg-salent piece of propaganda, Francis.
Agitation and Propaganda will have Big Brother in charge in no time.
If the gov't should control health care, shouldn't it control housing and food?
Sadly, Orwell did see the future, and the Obama-/Big Brotherbots will turn in any Winston or Julia who dares to question.
Corporate greed has not, nor ever will replace compassion, but Left-Wing viciousness and hatred may just replace good ol' American values and competitveness...
Sieg Obama.
(Man,'liberals' are seriously nasty people...)
[:-(
Have a good day.
Sorry, but I read Francis' contribution and he thoughtfully countered Candy's points one by one, without being "seriously nasty" or vicious, or expressing hatred. I must have missed all that. You omit those from your own post, of course, and still be an obedient apologist for the health insurance industry.

No one is asking for the government to control housing or food. A minimum level of healthcare for all, like a minimum level of education for all, is a good goal to work towards, though.

Awaiting your thoughtful and temperate response.
Brian in MA - not MN

Minneapolis, MN

#8 Jul 29, 2009
Truth wrote:
Because of red tape it takes eight to twelve weeks to begin treatment (Chemo/radiation) for cancer in the UK.
In the United States it takes fewer than two weeks to begin.
Consequently, patients in the United States have a much higher survival rate than anywhere else in the world.
Let's be careful that we don't throw out good health care because we want to be as 'civilized' as the rest of the world.
the bit about the red tape - you know this because of first hand experience or the propaganda you have been fed by the conservatives and their spin filled media outlets?

Yes, you can start chemo in two weeks in the US, if your health insurance pays for it. If you're uninsured or underinsured, you might not get it at all.

The point the writer (a doctor, unlike the rest of us on this thread) is making is that the profit motive is not best driver for providing access to healthcare for everyone. Care to argue with that?
Brian in MA - not MN

Minneapolis, MN

#9 Jul 29, 2009
Prove me wrong wrote:
Oh yeah. People who want government run health care want to get something for nothing. Period.
It's not for nothing - the taxes we pay will pay for much of it. You do realize that or are you trying to be disingenuous?
Brian in MA - not MN

Minneapolis, MN

#10 Jul 29, 2009
Prove me wrong wrote:
Health coverage is not a right. It is something you buy. Millions who can afford it do not buy it. Millions who are eligible for it (Medicare etc) do not apply for it. This is fact. All of it.
Health insurance coverage is not a right, but access to a minimum level of care is, in a civilzed society.

Care to argue about that too? Your response will tell us all we need to know.
Brad Hines

Springfield, MA

#11 Jul 29, 2009
Brian in MA - not MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Health insurance coverage is not a right, but access to a minimum level of care is, in a civilzed society.
Care to argue about that too? Your response will tell us all we need to know.
A "right" is not something the government gives you. It's something they are not allowed to take away.

I have a right to bear arms, but I don't expect the government to buy me a gun.
Brian in MA - not MN

Minneapolis, MN

#12 Jul 29, 2009
Brad Hines wrote:
<quoted text>
A "right" is not something the government gives you. It's something they are not allowed to take away.
I have a right to bear arms, but I don't expect the government to buy me a gun.
OK then, let's call it an expected and reasonable benefit of living in a civilized country, like education and a decent infrastructure.
John Galt

Albany, NY

#13 Jul 29, 2009
Ruthmary Deuel wrote:
All other civilized nations have long ago adopted various types of single-payer systems. These obviate the waste created by insurers trying to deny payments, thus saving themselves money by denying paying for treatments; they save money by being much more efficient than the hit or miss U.S. lack of system, and they are the one thing that Canadians, Brits, French, Norwegians and so on who come here invariably miss.
Yet, in a for profit system, even the greedist insurer has to be conginzant of the needs of their subscribers, because subscribers have the option to change insurers.

Governments that control healthcare are no less motivated to save money because resources are not unlimited even at a government level. People will be denied services if it is deemed that they are an unfair or inefficient use of resources.

Furthermore, anyone who has been to the RMV is well aware that there is a vast difference between customer service and public service. As for me, I would much rather deal with customer service because they know that ultimately they need to keep customers happy if they want to stay in business. Public service has no such concern because they know that their consumer base has no other choice.
John Galt

Albany, NY

#14 Jul 29, 2009
Brian in MA - not MN wrote:
<quoted text>
OK then, let's call it an expected and reasonable benefit of living in a civilized country, like education and a decent infrastructure.
I would love to hear a philsophical justification for this.

I see a lot of emotional rhetoric surrounding this issue but precious little thinking.

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