Arizona couple won't see son's plaque when they visit his grave

Full story: Daily Breeze

But when they stop by the former Lawndale man's resting place at Pacific Crest Cemetery in Redondo Beach, they won't see the name Mark Todd Crain on a plaque.

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Gladiator in Torrance

Redondo Beach, CA

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#24
Apr 13, 2010
 
Visiting Cowboy - That's nice, but I suggest that the RB Police Officer's Association ought to replace them.

Your right they should have offered since it was on their turf.
Dave

Los Angeles, CA

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#25
Apr 14, 2010
 

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formerly really wrote:
<quoted text>
If scrap dealers didn't have an established history of this kind of thing you wouldn't have thefts like this as often as you do. It's common knowledge that few scrappers ask for proof of where somthing came from and since it's their business to melt things down, theft is quickly covered up. It's a huge problem; they steal statues, markers, pipe and electrical wires from construction sites or homes and the scrap dealers take it, no questions asked. Come on- do you really think the staue of George Freeth wasn't quickly melted and unreported?
"common knowledge" is not proof according to our country's laws. You are still considered Not Guilt until proven beyond a doubt. It is not what one presumes or thinks; it is the proof that a court of law would require.
Dave

Los Angeles, CA

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#26
Apr 14, 2010
 

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WoW wrote:
<quoted text>
Just what is it that you think these tweekers are going to do with a grave marker? They take these things to recyclers because the recyclers will dispose of the item rather quickly which means ZERO evidence whereas a pawn shop has to hold the item for several months before it can be re-sold. Most of these recyclers will take anything that people will bring in. There may be some that abide by the laws, but most will not. They do not want to lose business to a competitor and they are willing to take the risk which makes them just as guilty.
If I go back to my teenage years (admittedly decades ago), it was not unusual for Stop signs (or similar traffic signs) to disappear from the posts and reappear in a teenage boy's bedroom. Even if there were greater than 50% probability that the markers were stolen for their metal content, one can not rule out other possibilities (fraternity stunts/challenges would be another example). Until you can assess the other possibilities, you should not jump to any conclusions.
formerly really

San Pedro, CA

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#27
Apr 14, 2010
 
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
"common knowledge" is not proof according to our country's laws. You are still considered Not Guilt until proven beyond a doubt. It is not what one presumes or thinks; it is the proof that a court of law would require.
Well, obviously the person has to be caught with evidence before they are prosecuted.

What I am saying is that these thefts happen largely because scrap dealers in general are known to look the other way. If they didn't there would be no incentive to steal bronze markers.
WoW

United States

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#28
Apr 15, 2010
 
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
If I go back to my teenage years (admittedly decades ago), it was not unusual for Stop signs (or similar traffic signs) to disappear from the posts and reappear in a teenage boy's bedroom. Even if there were greater than 50% probability that the markers were stolen for their metal content, one can not rule out other possibilities (fraternity stunts/challenges would be another example). Until you can assess the other possibilities, you should not jump to any conclusions.
I don't care how you try to sugar coat it........ THEFT IS STILL THEFT. Maybe, using one of your examples, you could make the argument that one could not prove they guy actually stole (a misdemeanor, property under $400.00) the "Stop Sign" hanging in his bedroom, but I can argue possession of stolen property (a felony) because mere possession of stolen property meets the criteria. The fact is that there are crooked recyclers out there that are making money hand over fist by recycling stolen property. They just haven't been caught yet.
Dave

Los Angeles, CA

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#29
Apr 15, 2010
 
WoW wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care how you try to sugar coat it........ THEFT IS STILL THEFT. Maybe, using one of your examples, you could make the argument that one could not prove they guy actually stole (a misdemeanor, property under $400.00) the "Stop Sign" hanging in his bedroom, but I can argue possession of stolen property (a felony) because mere possession of stolen property meets the criteria. The fact is that there are crooked recyclers out there that are making money hand over fist by recycling stolen property. They just haven't been caught yet.
You missed the point. Yes, the Stop Sign were indeed stolen. My point, however, was not about the thiefs themselves. It was the assumption, without proof, that the markers were sold to recyclers. It is entirely possible (however unthinkable)that the thiefs did not sell the markers for money. They may have done it for kicks, to decorate their bedrooms, etc.
WoW

United States

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#30
Apr 18, 2010
 
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed the point. Yes, the Stop Sign were indeed stolen. My point, however, was not about the thiefs themselves. It was the assumption, without proof, that the markers were sold to recyclers. It is entirely possible (however unthinkable)that the thiefs did not sell the markers for money. They may have done it for kicks, to decorate their bedrooms, etc.
It is NOT an assumption. There have been articles written in news papers for the last few years of the growing problem of metal theft and how the recyclers have made their share of money from this. Police and sheriff's departments have even dedicated detectives specifically to this type of crime. Do a little research and you will find that the problem is epidemic and is costing municipalities hundreds and thousands of dollars when bronze plaques have been stolen from city and county parks. These items are NOT ending up on somebodies wall like your stop signs. These items are being sold for quick cash to get their next rock, crack or meth. They steal copper tubing and wires from construction sites because there is a lot of product. For copper wire, the most money is obtained by stripping the coating off and selling clean copper. While high on meth, they are up for days stripping the wire. With all due respect, this is not an assumption, but rather a fact.
Dave

Los Angeles, CA

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#31
Apr 19, 2010
 
WoW wrote:
<quoted text>
It is NOT an assumption. There have been articles written in news papers for the last few years of the growing problem of metal theft and how the recyclers have made their share of money from this. Police and sheriff's departments have even dedicated detectives specifically to this type of crime. Do a little research and you will find that the problem is epidemic and is costing municipalities hundreds and thousands of dollars when bronze plaques have been stolen from city and county parks. These items are NOT ending up on somebodies wall like your stop signs. These items are being sold for quick cash to get their next rock, crack or meth. They steal copper tubing and wires from construction sites because there is a lot of product. For copper wire, the most money is obtained by stripping the coating off and selling clean copper. While high on meth, they are up for days stripping the wire. With all due respect, this is not an assumption, but rather a fact.
I have no doubt about the facts that you cited. However, you cannot leap to the conclusion that these markers were also sold. Where is your proof for this specific instance? Until you can provide that proof, it is still an assumption on your part (aka Guilt by Association).
Llyod Bonafide

Phoenix, AZ

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#32
May 13, 2010
 
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Listen Shannon Rodriguez, heavenly sunshine, or whatever you are calling yourself these days, got off the internet and start caring about the living instead of the deceased.
marianne switter wrote:
This is disgusting! I live in Mes

AZ, and my grandparents are interred at Pacific Crest Cemetery. This situation hits close to home. I hope that the Crains receive the repacement headstone soon, and that the cemetery will take the appropriate measures.. so other thefts don't happen again.
WoW

United States

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#33
May 14, 2010
 
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no doubt about the facts that you cited. However, you cannot leap to the conclusion that these markers were also sold. Where is your proof for this specific instance? Until you can provide that proof, it is still an assumption on your part (aka Guilt by Association).
Actually, It has been a well documented trend and a fact for several years by law enforcement officials everywhere. This documentation comes from having done the investigations and interviewing suspects who have admitted to law enforcement to having committed the crimes of stealing such items because the recyclers did not check or question where or how they obtained the items and just paid out the money. Many of these same suspects also admitted that they have had addictions to an assortment of narcotics and found that stealing the items and getting paid by the recyclers was an easy way to support their habit. Likewise, the recyclers have made statements admitting to their guilt because they do not want to lose the business to a competitor and as such, they have also admitted that they had been willing to take the risk of being caught over obeying the law As earlier mentioned in reference to task forces speciffically created for this crime alone, such specialized units are not created because these officers need "something to do." The fact that you feel you need more proof positive simply means that either you are ignorant to those statistics and the documentation that backs them up or you have chosen to simply not believe them.
Dave

Alhambra, CA

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#34
May 17, 2010
 

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WoW wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, It has been a well documented trend and a fact for several years by law enforcement officials everywhere. This documentation comes from having done the investigations and interviewing suspects who have admitted to law enforcement to having committed the crimes of stealing such items because the recyclers did not check or question where or how they obtained the items and just paid out the money. Many of these same suspects also admitted that they have had addictions to an assortment of narcotics and found that stealing the items and getting paid by the recyclers was an easy way to support their habit. Likewise, the recyclers have made statements admitting to their guilt because they do not want to lose the business to a competitor and as such, they have also admitted that they had been willing to take the risk of being caught over obeying the law As earlier mentioned in reference to task forces speciffically created for this crime alone, such specialized units are not created because these officers need "something to do." The fact that you feel you need more proof positive simply means that either you are ignorant to those statistics and the documentation that backs them up or you have chosen to simply not believe them.
Again you provide a general description but not any specific proof that could be present in a court of law. You cannot leap to a specific conclusion without specific facts.

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