Schools' schizophrenia

It's a tale of two different realities of Baltimore's school system. On Tuesday, Kristin Covaleskie, a fourth-grade teacher at Northwood Elementary School, was celebrated - with applause from her students and ...

[concerned]

This post has NOTHING to do with Schizophrenia and how dare you publish something that gives mental illness a bad stigma. Here I am a psychology student exctied about reading an article about Schizophrenia, and then I find out that all im reading is an article about violent school children. Its pretty bad that the only line in the whole article that could be passed off as a link to Schizophrenia is this "It's a tale of two different realities of Baltimore's school system".

[Frank]

Extracurricular activities? Rape and breaking and entering sound pretty extra-curricular to me.

These kids don't need ANYTHING but decent parents and a loving family.

It doesn't take a village, it takes a family that cares and some parents or guardians that are going to be the enforcer of these laws.

Let's talk about the illigitimacy rate in the city for a minute. Do you think that might have something to do with this?

[Broke Taxpayer]

I think this "piece" was written by someone in high school, how pathetic...

[Mel]

Family, Church, and Community are the only ones who can change the children. Teachers should be teaching Academics and then reenforcing values not the other way around. Only when families take control of the own children will we see a change.

[Harford6732Reade r]

Douger
Baltimore, MD [Quote] "Government cannot legislate morality. That comes from the heart."

The same could be said for common sense, and common courtesy.....neither of which is very common these days. And I agree with Douger, until and unless we start taking a stronger stance on this youthful violence, it will continue. The old adage "Spare the rod, and spoil the child" should make a MODIFIED comeback. There should be consequences for all of this bad behavior.

[Mark]

Douger wrote:

"...the schools cannot be solely responsible for teaching basic values of civility and humanity."
The schools should not be teaching those values at all. They should serve to reinforce those values.
These kids...no, make that savages...aren't learning much of anything at home, where all learning starts. And before anyone picks up on the "racist" tone of that statement, let me note that there are 500 reported cases of students attacking teachers and staff in suburban schools this year.
How have we reached this point?
I blame liberalism. We've removed the stigmatisms that used to be associated with teen pregnancy. We've "buddied up" to our kids rather than being role models. Thuggishness is now a celebrated trait. We dare not crack a child across the hiney for inappropriate behavior, less child protective services descend upon the "offending" parent....

Douger,

Extremely well written. I agree with everything in your post. You should be writing the editorials, not the bozos at the Baltimore Sun that actually get paid for their drivel.

[flyingcow]

Schools allow deviant behavior,
and schools excuse bad behavior,
so the schools get the behavior
that they allow and do not punish--
the savages know what the rules are--
they also know (1) that
the schools will not enforce
the rules--
(2) that there will always be
a well-meaning adult
who will offer excuses
for the criminal students
in the schools--
you can't fix anarchy.....

[BIG Free]

I've said this in several other forums on city school violence - and I'll say it again - only this time I'll just use two words - National Guard

[jwer]

Of COURSE government can regulate morality, when it affects the well-being of society; why do you think theft, rape, and murder are illegal?

It's when government tries to proscribe consensual behavior that can in no way be seen as criminal that there's a problem. But do you notice that the conservatives who attempt to legislate against equal rights for gays and lesbians cast it as "trying to prevent the breakdown of society"? They did the same thing with anti-miscegenation law.

And it would be great if I could read an article in The Sun that was able to escape comments either using the word "savages" or blaming Martin O'Malley... I guess there are just a lot more right-wingers with nothing better to do?

[YouHelpFixIt]

Please notice that the writer did not use the word "public" when referring to these public schools. This has been a reoccurring and probably intentional omission on the part of the Baltimore Sun.

[Douger]

"And it would be great if I could read an article in The Sun that was able to escape comments either using the word "savages"..."

What do you call a child that wails on a teacher in the manner the art teacher received? Misguided? Or the two 13 year olds that tried to rape the assistant principal? Oversexed? Or do you subscribe to the typical liberal position that these little darlings aren't to blame, that maybe the staff member was "asking" for it?

"Savage" perfectly describes the behavior of this miscreants. "Savage" behavior is done by "savages." Until society recognizes the horror of raising a generation of savages, nothing changes.

"...or blaming Martin O'Malley..."

It would have been nice to have read an article in the Sunpapers from 2002-2008 that didn't place the blame for every state ill at the feet of Ehrlich.

But the fact is, if OweMalley wants to take credit for things Ehrlich had set up because the results happened on his watch, then blame should be properly assessed against the current resident of Annapolis for the current mess the state is in. Especially since he had promised to create a socialistic utopia.

So far, all he's achieved is the socialist part of it.

[Frank]

jwer wrote:

Of COURSE government can regulate morality, when it affects the well-being of society; why do you think theft, rape, and murder are illegal?
It's when government tries to proscribe consensual behavior that can in no way be seen as criminal that there's a problem. But do you notice that the conservatives who attempt to legislate against equal rights for gays and lesbians cast it as "trying to prevent the breakdown of society"? They did the same thing with anti-miscegenation law.
And it would be great if I could read an article in The Sun that was able to escape comments either using the word "savages" or blaming Martin O'Malley... I guess there are just a lot more right-wingers with nothing better to do?

First of all - regulating and punishing are two entirely different things. The government can no more regulate the homocide rate in Baltimore than it can the amount of speeding tickets are given out.

If the government wanted to "mitigate" some of these atrocious crimes, perhaps using the death penalty would be a good start. Why don't we call Martin O'Malley and ask where he is with that one? Ooops - I bashed him again.

As for the Baltimore Sun - instead of bashing the comments left by what is in your mind, right-wing nutjobs, why aren't you on the phone demanding they cover NEWS. Not commentary...NEWS. Where is the article about the BGE rate increase?

[jwer]

Douger: You use a word that does not have racist overtones. Or in your case, you start your post with the standard issue "I'm not a racist but..." disclaimer. And perhaps you should look up the word "socialist" if you think any US state is anywhere near it.

Frank: While it was my mistake to say "regulate" instead of "legislate" as Douger did, the entire purpose of legislation is to regulate society. Punishment is a form of regulation. Anything that affects the rate of something else is a form of regulation.

The death penalty clearly doesn't work as a deterrent, and given the exceptionally well-documented cases of wrongful conviction, I fail to see how anyone who purports to subscribe to Christian ethics can support it.

I was not bashing anyone, merely disagreeing, and then making an observation. I never said the Sun was a great paper. It's been going downhill for years just like every other non-local corporate-owned monopolistic paper. But they've had plenty of articles about the rate increases, I guess you were just looking for one headlined "BGE RATES ALL OWEMALLEY'S FAULT!!!!1!!!"

[Painfully Obvious]

We have been hearing about the decay in City Schools and neighborhoods for decades. Everyone (media, local government, civic and church leaders) will stress the need for change. A tax-payer supported program of dubious design and management will be rolled out. Everyone will pat themselves on the back thinking that this latest in a string of tax-payer supported programs will solve the problem. Those in power will go back to business as usual until the next outrage forces them to repeat the process again.

[Sandi]

Douger wrote:

"Student-teacher violence was largely unheard of up til about 20 years ago.

When I was in school 24 years, my parents would have beat my A** and then DARED me to call the police. Of course that was before a good A** beating was illegal. It straighten my butt up and made me fly right.
Well written on your part!!!!

[Douger]

"Douger: You use a word that does not have racist overtones."

Savages?

I'm not politically correct. I don't dance around a subject because the perpetually offended get their panties in a wad by the use of certain words.

"Racist" is a term so overused that its shock value is worn out. To disagree with the fairness affirmative actions, for example, is considered in some circles as "racist," but it doesn't measure up to the classic definition of the word. It therefore is used more as an epitaph.

My use of the term "savages" in the context of my post is hardly racist. It refers to specific people, who through the unfortunate timing of two very recent news stories, happen to be black. As I stated in the original post, suburban schools aren't immune from this disease. I don't know the race(s) of the perpetrators in those cases, and I don't consider race to be germane in this discussion.

With regards to my statement regarding legislating morality, you use examples that are crimes directed against others.

I consider morality to be a much deeper issue, with religion having little to do with it. A morally upright person, for example, doesn't curse at another person. Cheating in some circumstances may be legal, but it's certainly morally bankrupt. I don't think laws can or should try to address these concerns. Those are issues society addresses by its acceptance or condemnation of the behavior...stigmatisms, if you will.

I'm sorry...you only get so many words in these posts, and in no case am I attempting a thesis. Nor is writing my forte...I don't express myself in clear and clever words sometimes.

[jwer]

Would you prefer "massively condescending"? The term "savages" is inflammatory and frequently (although I will not try to prove that you intend it to be so) racist.

It is not accurate to refer to people who watch the same TV channels you do as "savages", regardless of their behavior. And I was not referring specifically to you, but to everyone on these forums who uses "savage" as code for "black child".

I do agree that morality has little to do with religion, but at that point I was responding to someone else, not to you.

[SAM - Cockeysville]

We continue to focus our "blame" on parents without assisting them by giving them the tools/training to deal with their kids who are responding to peers/gang influence. These kids didn't start out this way. We, as a society, must help these families who may need support and guidance.

[Broke Taxpayer]

Jwer,

The death penalty IS a deterrent. The POS that was executed WILL NEVER KILL AGAIN. I think that means that animal was deterred from killing again...

[Frank]

jwer wrote:

Would you prefer "massively condescending"? The term "savages" is inflammatory and frequently (although I will not try to prove that you intend it to be so) racist.
It is not accurate to refer to people who watch the same TV channels you do as "savages", regardless of their behavior. And I was not referring specifically to you, but to everyone on these forums who uses "savage" as code for "black child".
I do agree that morality has little to do with religion, but at that point I was responding to someone else, not to you.

Perhaps you perceive the word "savages" and code for "black child".

I perceive "savages" as anyone, ANYONE, who cannot handle themselves in society, with respect for others. Anyone that immediately turns to violence to "solve their problems".

I believe you have some seriuos racial issues (yourself) that you are projecting onto others.