I Marvel at Whitman
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#61 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text> I dont read the history of what you claim formed my group just the bible and the way I worship agrees with that.
The Bible disagrees. Worship isn't a bunch of activities that go on in a church building on a Sunday morning or evening. Check the Bible and read what is going on called "worship". No mention of singing acapella, preaching, communion, giving, and praying being called worship. Worship is attitude not activities in a building. And it is anywhere anytime, not in the official worship station.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#62 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Why you keep asking questions from someone that has so little knowledge as you claim. If you say you dont believe any historical account I dont believe you even think that way. Im sorry I dont fit in your boxes.
1. I said you refuse to acknowledge. Did NOT say you have little knowledge. Read more closely.

2. Didn't say I don't believe any historical accounts. I do believe history- even history you refused to acknowledge or believe.

3. You most certainly fit in the box I am thinking of. As does Heath.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#63 Oct 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible disagrees. Worship isn't a bunch of activities that go on in a church building on a Sunday morning or evening. Check the Bible and read what is going on called "worship". No mention of singing acapella, preaching, communion, giving, and praying being called worship. Worship is attitude not activities in a building. And it is anywhere anytime, not in the official worship station.
Sorry But the bible does speak of worship being an active part on the human being.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#64 Oct 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I said you refuse to acknowledge. Did NOT say you have little knowledge. Read more closely.
2. Didn't say I don't believe any historical accounts. I do believe history- even history you refused to acknowledge or believe.
3. You most certainly fit in the box I am thinking of. As does Heath.
I refuse to allow you to put me in a box that I do not fit in for you do not know me as Bobby does not know me. You do not believe all Historical accounts now do you? I have disagreed with both Heath and JR on some things so I cant fit in their box now can I? Oh I agree with them on many issues also. I am Glad God will not judge a box but me alone will he judge no matter what you desire to do.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#66 Oct 16, 2013
A man speaking for 45 minutes to people who are already considered believers is not worship no matter where it is.

That is a lecture. The podium is the center point of the Church building or outside or whever.

That is what Low Prot means.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#67 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry But the bible does speak of worship being an active part on the human being.
Sorry but the Bible nowhere calls singing, preaching, giving, communion, or activities in a church building worship. The idea behind worship is to prostrate oneself, and the activity the Bible gives as worship is literally someone falling on their face.

So, you fall on your face like the Bible describes?
And, have you read 1 Corinthians 14, where in an assembly context, an unbeliever could "fall on his face and worship God"? He's not worshipping by being in an assembly. He's worshipping by his attitude toward God. Where is anything else called worship? Other things accompany worship, but are rendered as "service".
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#68 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>I refuse to allow you to put me in a box that I do not fit in for you do not know me as Bobby does not know me. You do not believe all Historical accounts now do you? I have disagreed with both Heath and JR on some things so I cant fit in their box now can I? Oh I agree with them on many issues also. I am Glad God will not judge a box but me alone will he judge no matter what you desire to do.
God does not judge in a box, but you do fit in one. Your doctrine, not YOU PERSONALLY. Separate those two things out. I do not know you personally, nor am I judging you personally. YOUR DOCTRINE, YOUR CONGREGATION'S DOCTRINES all come from the same source, and it's found in 1800's American history. Heath's and JR's doctrines both match. A point here or there does not change the overwhelming agreement between all. And where is the root of all come from?

Sample question- do you JC personally think that brethren who use instruments in their singing are in agreement with scripture, and are they in fellowship with you and in your opinion, with God?
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#69 Oct 16, 2013
Mike_Peterson wrote:
A man speaking for 45 minutes to people who are already considered believers is not worship no matter where it is.
That is a lecture. The podium is the center point of the Church building or outside or whever.
That is what Low Prot means.
Mike, catholic teaching of what worship is please. I'm curious.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#70 Oct 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry but the Bible nowhere calls singing, preaching, giving, communion, or activities in a church building worship. The idea behind worship is to prostrate oneself, and the activity the Bible gives as worship is literally someone falling on their face.
So, you fall on your face like the Bible describes?
And, have you read 1 Corinthians 14, where in an assembly context, an unbeliever could "fall on his face and worship God"? He's not worshipping by being in an assembly. He's worshipping by his attitude toward God. Where is anything else called worship? Other things accompany worship, but are rendered as "service".
I stand by my statement as truth Worship is an active participation on the human being. Always demanded by God and always will be. Your the one that define those actions you listed I did not.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#71 Oct 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
God does not judge in a box, but you do fit in one. Your doctrine, not YOU PERSONALLY. Separate those two things out. I do not know you personally, nor am I judging you personally. YOUR DOCTRINE, YOUR CONGREGATION'S DOCTRINES all come from the same source, and it's found in 1800's American history. Heath's and JR's doctrines both match. A point here or there does not change the overwhelming agreement between all. And where is the root of all come from?
Sample question- do you JC personally think that brethren who use instruments in their singing are in agreement with scripture, and are they in fellowship with you and in your opinion, with God?
From My studies I have decided how to worship God as he directed in word and deeds of the early church. Doesnt matter what I think for you and for sure it matters not what you think for me. I dont think you understand fellowship so maybe you should explain that term as you see it. If you ask if I would worship with a piano playing choir singing group the answer is no. Does that make me wrong? You can CAPITALIZE all the key words you want to it still does not make what you say true.
Dave P

Winder, GA

#72 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text> I stand by my statement as truth Worship is an active participation on the human being. Always demanded by God and always will be. Your the one that define those actions you listed I did not.
*Always demanded- spoken like someone who reads the NT like a new code of laws to be kept. You need to be COMMANDED to worship God? Really?

Active participation- yes. 5 activities given and observed during the worship service at a church building? No. The activities of our daily lives spent in a manner honoring Him? Yes.

Now, where's Heath with the ignorant "eating ice cream" retort?
Dave P

Winder, GA

#73 Oct 16, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
From My studies I have decided how to worship God as he directed in word and deeds of the early church. Doesnt matter what I think for you and for sure it matters not what you think for me. I dont think you understand fellowship so maybe you should explain that term as you see it. If you ask if I would worship with a piano playing choir singing group the answer is no. Does that make me wrong? You can CAPITALIZE all the key words you want to it still does not make what you say true.
Capitalized to clarify that I am not speaking of you personally.
Anything in the book of Acts called worship specifically?
Dave P

Winder, GA

#74 Oct 16, 2013
From My studies I have decided how to worship God as he directed in word and deeds of the early church.

What are you calling worship and how do you define it?
Dave P

Winder, GA

#75 Oct 16, 2013
Sample question- do you JC personally think that brethren who use instruments in their singing are in agreement with scripture, and are they in fellowship with you and in your opinion, with God?

If you ask if I would worship with a piano playing choir singing group the answer is no.

Finally, we get an answer! Now, where in the words and deeds of the early church do we find such an idea? Or is this something that came along later?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#76 Oct 17, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
From My studies I have decided how to worship God as he directed in word and deeds of the early church. Doesnt matter what I think for you and for sure it matters not what you think for me. I dont think you understand fellowship so maybe you should explain that term as you see it. If you ask if I would worship with a piano playing choir singing group the answer is no. Does that make me wrong? You can CAPITALIZE all the key words you want to it still does not make what you say true.
You have absolutely no idea how the early Church worshiped. The bare bones NT descriptions do not provide enough detail for what you call "worship" and do on Sunday morning. What you do on Sunday morning came straight out of the Baptist Church via Alexander Campbell and then Daniel Sommer. Nothing like it can be found in the early Church.
Mike Peterson

Hattiesburg, MS

#77 Oct 17, 2013
Dave P wrote:
From My studies I have decided how to worship God as he directed in word and deeds of the early church.
What are you calling worship and how do you define it?
Show me one of your studies that shows that your way is how early Christians worshiped.

I can show you historical documents how the Church worshiped written in AD 60.
Mike Peterson

Hattiesburg, MS

#78 Oct 17, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike, catholic teaching of what worship is please. I'm curious.
Worship is the Liturgy. There are many liturgies in the Church like Liturgies of the Hours, mainly done by priests, and and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament or example.

The Mass by far, is the most important.

The focal point of every Church is the altar. Even the Pope is seated to the side or behind the Altar.

The Tabernacle which holds the precious body of Jesus Christ is prominent and a red candle is always lit when he is present.

The Church is a holy place and not a fellowship hall. Songs are song for a purpose not to get the crowd up for the main act of the preachers sermon.

God does not need our worship; He is complete in Himself, even without receiving the worship of His creatures.

We, however, aren’t complete. In our fallen state, we have separated ourselves from God. Worship draws us closer to Him. When we worship Him, we imitate the angels and saints who surround His throne in heaven. We are drawn out of this life and catch a glimpse of the next. The Mass and the other liturgies of the Church are not mere human ceremonies or social hours; they are a participation in heaven here on earth.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-cat...
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#79 Oct 17, 2013
JC says, I dont think you understand fellowship so maybe you should explain that term as you see it.

How about "the sharing of a common life"? Seems a good summary to me. That's the literal meaning of the word. In 2 Corinthians 13:14 its called the fellowship of the Spirit, and in Philippians 2:1. It's the fellowship of His Son in 1 Cor. 1:9. Fellowship starts with God, not us. If we are in Christ we are in fellowship with Him and one another.

Fellowship and unity does not require us to agree on all points. Far from it- Romans 14:3. If someone is in Christ, we have fellowship with one another even if I disagree about certain beliefs of the other.

Let me ask you this- are you in fellowship with the choir singing, piano playing person who is in Christ? If not, why not?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#80 Oct 22, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You have absolutely no idea how the early Church worshiped. The bare bones NT descriptions do not provide enough detail for what you call "worship" and do on Sunday morning. What you do on Sunday morning came straight out of the Baptist Church via Alexander Campbell and then Daniel Sommer. Nothing like it can be found in the early Church.
If the NT writings do not provide enough info for the Christian Then Christ lied to the Apostles when he said the HS would guide them into ALL truth.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#81 Oct 22, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>If the NT writings do not provide enough info for the Christian Then Christ lied to the Apostles when he said the HS would guide them into ALL truth.
How funny! You've just destroyed your little denomination! The Apostles and their successors were indeed guided by the Holy Spirit and by the 4th Century the Liturgy virtually as we know it today was already in universal use. What you do on Sunday morning was made up by the Baptist Church.

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