Splitting the Body of Christ

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Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#1 May 23, 2013
When Father Martin Luther came along and broke from the Church which Jesus founded, which had already existed for 1500 years, and which on its 218th in a line of Popes going all the way back to St. Peter, he created the first Protestant Church. It was in 1521.

He was not alone in doing this but almost immediately he and Thomas Munzer had a "different viewpoint" and broke from Luther and formed the 2nd Protestant Church, also in 1521. The splits in Protestantism had begun and continue at an exponential rate today.

In 1600 there were 100 splits. In 1900 there were 1000. Today there at least 39,000 splits in the Body of Christ in Protestantism with new ones being added every week, and the end is not in sight.

Has Christ been divided up? 1st Corithians " I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. 11For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you."

This is the legacy one receives as a 'reward' for 'rule by viewpoint' which is for forbidden by scripture, insisting that 'the Holy Spirit told me" when he did not,'Sola Scriptua' which is not scriptural, and 'rejection of an authoritative governing body' which is against the commands of Scripture.

Matthew 18:

5h “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Hebrews 13:17

* Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.

"He who is not we me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters"

With 39,000 different non catholic Christian communities in the world today, just who is doing the scattering? It is obvious from the verses that 'he who scatters' is against the gatherer.

Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#2 May 23, 2013
Did the Catholic Church break faith when it murdered men, women and children for 'religious' reasons decreed by their Popes?

It's the biggest church of beams I've ever seen.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#3 May 23, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Did the Catholic Church break faith when it murdered men, women and children for 'religious' reasons decreed by their Popes?
It's the biggest church of beams I've ever seen.
It is the biggest Church you have ever see. I agree.

I see that you at least did not refute that there was only the Catholic Church for 1500 years. That being so, then it was the Church Jesus started.

Can I take the liberty to say the beams statement means beams split and therefore the Church became apostate?

Then Jesus lied and we are all wrong. No God, so no heaven and hell.
Mark

Greensboro, NC

#4 May 23, 2013
Mike Peterson said:
"When Father Martin Luther came along and broke from the Church which Jesus founded, which had already existed for 1500 years, and which on its 218th in a line of Popes going all the way back to St. Peter"

Mike, when did the Roman Catholic church start forbidding their "Popes" "Bishops" "Nuns" etc. to marry and by what standard do they use for this?

Peter was married...Mt 8:14 ¶ And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Peter was also an "elder"... 1Pe 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#5 May 23, 2013
Mark you don't have elders at Danville Church of Christ. Johnny doesn't have elders at Martinsvile Church of Christ. James doesn't have elders at Eden Church of Christ.

Go find some elders and be obedient to the Bible before you try talking to others about elders.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#6 May 24, 2013
Mark wrote:
Mike Peterson said:
"When Father Martin Luther came along and broke from the Church which Jesus founded, which had already existed for 1500 years, and which on its 218th in a line of Popes going all the way back to St. Peter"
Mike, when did the Roman Catholic church start forbidding their "Popes" "Bishops" "Nuns" etc. to marry and by what standard do they use for this?
Peter was married...Mt 8:14 ¶ And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Peter was also an "elder"... 1Pe 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Where do you see Peter's mother in the Bible? We see her mother-in-law. Was she dead maybe? I would like to think so, because of not, Peter left her. All the Apostles left everything they had to follow him. All their family and belongings.

Why does it bother you so much that Priests make a vow of celibacy to serve the Lord. Is it because you know you couldn't give up everything to follow him.

My bible says priests.

Mark: How do you know that Peter wrote 1st Peter and that it belongs in the Bible. That information is not in the Bible.

1st Peter 5:1
1 1 So I exhort the presbyters 2 among you, as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed. 2
Dave P

United States

#7 May 24, 2013
Why does it bother us so that priests make a vow of celibacy? 1 Timothy 4:1-3.

Again, if Peter was an elder or a Presbyterian (same thing) one of the qualifications is to be the husband of one wife. Suggesting Peter abandoned his wife or she died is going beyond Gods word.

As for 1 Peter, Peter himself tells us that he had written through Silvanus our faithful brother. It is scripture because God deemed so beforehand-lampstand in the tabernacle. Gods providence.

Why do you refuse to believe in the priesthood of all believers? Your boy Peter wrote that.
Dave P

United States

#8 May 24, 2013
Presbyter, not Presbyterian. Sheesh.
Dave P

United States

#9 May 24, 2013
Mike plays dodgeball too. Many people have issues with the ONE TRUE CHURCH committing murder, torture, and crimes against humanity. That's a tough sell for many.

Yet, how can it be the one true church when one can be in another group and still be saved? Quite the contradiction. The hardline coc here won't accept other coc, the Christian church nor the Disciples of Christ, their brethren of the RM. Forget about those in the awful denominations, they'll burn forever. But the pope declares even "good atheists" are redeemed-when the Bible clearly says without faith it is impossible -IMPOSSIBLE- to please God.

The one true church will accept all kinds of people-but then makes them second class citizens and denies them the "sacraments" unless they join the one true church. Ashdod! The great thing about the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 is the passage he reads in Isaiah. A little beyond what Luke tells us, the prophet speaks of the eunuchs having a full inheritance and spot of honor in the kingdom. Guess the one true church would prefer many be dried up eunuchs.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#10 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Presbyter, not Presbyterian. Sheesh.
You must be on a smart phone. I hate when mine does that.
Dave P

United States

#11 May 24, 2013
Yup. Broadband down here. Not up till 9:30 tonight. Stuck with dumbphone lol.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#12 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Why does it bother us so that priests make a vow of celibacy? 1 Timothy 4:1-3.
Again, if Peter was an elder or a Presbyterian (same thing) one of the qualifications is to be the husband of one wife. Suggesting Peter abandoned his wife or she died is going beyond Gods word.
As for 1 Peter, Peter himself tells us that he had written through Silvanus our faithful brother. It is scripture because God deemed so beforehand-lampstand in the tabernacle. Gods providence.
Why do you refuse to believe in the priesthood of all believers? Your boy Peter wrote that.
Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach.

No Bishop or Priest has been married more than once, at least 'legally' in the church. Some have been married, but the vast majority of their wives have died. There are allowing some married Priests from the Episcopal church who convert on a case by case basis.

Mark once again, Jesus or Paul could not be a Bishop in your Church. That is one of the reasons you can tell the Church you are in was not started by Jesus. Paul could not be a leader.

I believe in every verse of the Bible in context, but Jesus set up a hierarchy for Church leadership. Did he say to obey your prelates and governing bodies Didn't he say the whoever hears the Church hears him? Didnt he say whoever has a dispute take it the Church. Do we have to take it to all the priesthood of believers?

We have a lamp in front of the tabernacle of my Church. It shines a light on the body of Jesus
Dave P

United States

#13 May 24, 2013
Paul never said he was a bishop (elder) or that he ever decided to be one. You are incorrect about Jesus. He is the chief Shepherd. He has a bride, husband of one wife, He has children. Jesus is very qualified to be our chief Shepherd. As for Paul, one does not have to be a bishop to be a leader. Ever hear of apostles or evangelists?
If you have a brother in sin, and he doesn't listen to one, then two or three, then yes it goes before "the priesthood of believers" the church. Jesus did not set up the complex system of polity that the RCC follows. That was done post Bible times. Bible church polity is simple- apostles, prophets, evangelists, then elders. Apostles are dead, prophecy is done. Leaves vangelists and elders. Every congregation should have elders if men are qualified. Evangelists preach, teach the lost, plant churches, etc. No pope or "bishop" in Rome to answer to.
Lampstand in the tabernacle shows us how many books God inspired and who decided what they were.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#14 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Paul never said he was a bishop (elder) or that he ever decided to be one. You are incorrect about Jesus. He is the chief Shepherd. He has a bride, husband of one wife, He has children. Jesus is very qualified to be our chief Shepherd. As for Paul, one does not have to be a bishop to be a leader. Ever hear of apostles or evangelists?
If you have a brother in sin, and he doesn't listen to one, then two or three, then yes it goes before "the priesthood of believers" the church. Jesus did not set up the complex system of polity that the RCC follows. That was done post Bible times. Bible church polity is simple- apostles, prophets, evangelists, then elders. Apostles are dead, prophecy is done. Leaves vangelists and elders. Every congregation should have elders if men are qualified.

Evangelists preach, teach the lost, plant churches, etc. No pope or "bishop" in Rome to answer to.
Lampstand in the tabernacle shows us how many books God inspired and who decided what they were.
All of this is your private interpretation of one of the 300,000 interpretations of the Bible has been created in the world since 1500.

That man made lampstand belief only works because Luther trashed 7 books of the word of God in 1520 to help fit the Bible to his beliefs.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#15 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Paul never said he was a bishop (elder) or that he ever decided to be one. You are incorrect about Jesus. He is the chief Shepherd. He has a bride, husband of one wife, He has children. Jesus is very qualified to be our chief Shepherd. As for Paul, one does not have to be a bishop to be a leader. Ever hear of apostles or evangelists?
If you have a brother in sin, and he doesn't listen to one, then two or three, then yes it goes before "the priesthood of believers" the church. Jesus did not set up the complex system of polity that the RCC follows. That was done post Bible times. Bible church polity is simple- apostles, prophets, evangelists, then elders. Apostles are dead, prophecy is done. Leaves vangelists and elders. Every congregation should have elders if men are qualified.
Evangelists preach, teach the lost, plant churches, etc. No pope or "bishop" in Rome to answer to.
Lampstand in the tabernacle shows us how many books God inspired and who decided what they were.
Jesus was only "married" once just like the verse said but he remained celibate.. The Church is his bride. The CC. It cant be yours or that would be polygamy.
Dave P

United States

#16 May 24, 2013
Your belief that the RCC is the one true church is also private interpretation-of those who dreamed it up. Your group is no better, no more the one true one than any others. The RCC and hardline coc match each other in spiritual arrogance. Have fun in Babylon.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#17 May 24, 2013
Dave:

Jesus started a Church which is the Pillar and Ground of Truth

One Church has existed since 32 AD and is still here.

That Church is the Catholic Church.

Therefore Jesus started the Catholic Church.

This is called logic. No interpretation needed.

I hope to you in heaven Dave.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#18 May 24, 2013
One thing though: the church of Christ do debate from Scripture. I rather do that any day than with a Catholic. The RCC not only debate OUTSIDE of the revealed, inspired, Word of God; they go against what has been written.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9”

Wonder if calling Catholic leaders FATHER, is a good thing?
__________

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7”

If you have ever watched Catholics on TV or been to a service, its quite robotic, routine, and repetitious.
__________

Is Mary the mediator between God and man as implied/taught in the RCC? Wonder what those Rosary Beads represent? Hmm. Wonder how many "Hail Marys" are tied to them beads? Hmm. Wonder if we can turn in our Bibles and find those "Hail Marys"

"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5

"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28
__________

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#19 May 24, 2013
Mike, is it true that Pope Gregory VII enforced celibacy for priests and bishops? Prior to 1079, were they permitted to marry? It seems Catholic doctrine has “evolved” not a creation of God at all.

"A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)" 1 Timothy 3:2-5

In the very next chapter of the Bible after bishops are told they must be married with children 1 Timothy 4:1-3

I don’t blame you or any Catholic for arguing OUTSIDE of the Bible; the Bible cuts against Catholic grain.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#20 May 24, 2013
JC:"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9”

Jesus called Abraham Father. Did he lie when he said call no man your father?

Paul writes in Philem 10 whose father I became in my imprisonment.

Do you have eyes left. I know you have sinned with your eyes. You are suppose to pluck them out. You have any hands left?

Celibacy is a tradition of the Church. It is not an infallible teaching.

The Church doesn't forbid anybody not to married. Priests are not drafted. They accept this so they "leave everything" and follow him.

Marriage is a sacrament in the Church.

A Bishop cannot be married more than once. IF they have children they must keep them under control. All of that the Church follows.

Pope Francis was not a husband of more than 1 and has no procreated children, but has 1.2 billion of them.

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