Yeah, I guess you are right, but at least it's part of the one true church:-)<quoted text>
Yeah them Catholics are weird. Possibly they go to the Saturday evening vigil (same as Sunday) but it's really none of your business. Maybe they like dead trees. Maybe they don't like the local parish church. I don't. It's full of illegal aliens and has a first generation Vietnamese priest. It's also packed with tacky 1960's plaster statues and has a crappy organ and organist.
#143 Jun 21, 2013
#144 Jun 21, 2013
You know, you beat me to that line, I was thinking the same things about you and your time in the coc:-)
#145 Jun 21, 2013
The Catholics are really sensitive about the altar boy issue. I think deep down they are ashamed and even though the whole church is in a constant state of denial sometimes the truth pops up and it terrifies them. This infallibility they have been taught is crumbling before their eyes. It must be a very troubling situation for them and inside I know their faith had to suffer. A lot of people are leaving the church.
#146 Jun 21, 2013
Don't you feel for these Catholics who have put so much into their church and had such a strong belief only to have it fall apart in a major way. Billions of dollars in lawsuits, billions, unbelievable. They built on the rock of a man (Pope) and forgot about the scriptures and the real rock for their foundation (Jesus).
#147 Jun 22, 2013
These discussions are almost identical with our early discussion with the legalist coc who were teaching they were the only true church. It's a pride issue based on who has the best works. I know some legalist coc and legalist catholics who do have a lot of good works and on the outside they appear to have their lives together but they always live in fear that they have not done enough. It is impossible to earn our salvation.
In their defense of losing members, all we have to do is be honest, churches/christianity is losing membership worldwide. Some once strong christian nations have now become secular. Does it signal the soon return of Christ, I think it does.
#148 Jun 22, 2013
The time of the Gentiles appears to be nearing its end. Jesus spoke of it and the apostles also confirmed the signs of the times it would happen. All the signs are there, and we'll do well to take the advice from Jesus in Revelation:
Wash ourselves (rid ourselves of the dirt of living against Torah and His instructions in righteousness by repenting to turn to do the full will of God)
Keep the commandments of God, the Testimony of Jesus and make the faith of Jesus the faith we also possess.
If I'm right, all hell is about to be unleashed, but hasn't this already been going on in the Middle East towards those of the faith? Surely it has and we have largely remained silent to date... Could this be the time? If not, why do you not think so?
#149 Jun 22, 2013
Those whose faith and life are not built upon the foundation of doing His will - not just hearing and agreeing its good, but being hearers and DOERS of His word - He warned of the great fall from the very beginning of His teachings.
#150 Jun 22, 2013
Yes, we both believe in a literal return of Christ to this earth. We may be the only ones on these treads who believe that. And yes, this could be right on our front door. We are already seeing the falling away from faith as our churches shrink.
However there is no biblical doctrine more misunderstood than the end times theology. For instance will Jesus reinstate old testament law after the rapture. I don't think so, at least not in the sense that the law pointed to Jesus and the purpose of the law was to reveal Christ. Surely there will be no more blood sacrifices offered, because Christ will be there with them-the Jew.
So, I have reached the point that I believe it is not a real point of concern for Christians because we are already in a war against evil. Will the war heat up, you bet it will. Pre-trib, mid-trib and post trib-or no trib, none of these positions will affect the salvation of true believers. Pre-trib makes the most sense to me.
Lots of interesting stuff out there on end times theology but it is one of the most divisive subjects we have. When it happens, all of us will find that we did not know everything about it. The answer is to be ready at any time especially as we see the signs approaching.
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
#151 Jun 22, 2013
The end times will be in our generation.
Just as it has been for every generation before us.
#152 Jun 22, 2013
Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly.
Since: Jun 11
#153 Jun 22, 2013
Those folks in the first century thought they would not die before Christ came again. That is precisely why such precious little was left in the way of rules and regs for Church organization. The second, third, into the fourth and later generations did an extraordinary job in the face of mounting persecution to preserve, protect and organize the traditions bequeathed by those first Christians. How was this done? By the work and decisions of infallible Ecumenical Councils who were able to do it while at the same time picking out those 27 books. The organization remains remarkably unchanged today.
#154 Jun 22, 2013
Is the retired pope still infallible? You will be required to say yes. From what I hear you saying is that those on the ecumenical councils were all infallible. Heck you even talk like you are infallible.
The rest of those awful people with their bibles are lunatics.
Since: Jun 11
#155 Jun 22, 2013
The former Pope, B16, is just that a former Pope. He no longer sits in the Chair of Peter and therefore cannot make an infallible pronouncement ex cathedra concerning faith and morals. If you paid attention you would know this authority has been rarely used. It has only been used once in my lifetime...when I was two in 1950.
As for the Ecumenical Councils the individual participants, the Bishops, are of course not infallible. It is when these Councils come to a decision, guided by the Holy Spirit, regarding faith and morals that they cannot be in error. This is why we have the inerrant Word of God contained in the 27 books of the New Testament. This is why
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Since: Jun 11
#156 Jun 22, 2013
Just so I am clear, when a Pope gives an opinion on anything, answers a question, writes a book or says something in a homily, he is NOT speaking infallibly contrary to popular prot myths!!!!!!!!!!
#157 Jun 22, 2013
You were just born on a raft.
The Ship and the Rafts
A Catholic Convert Looks Back
By Steve Ray
Imagine a king who establishes a new country on the other side of the ocean. In order to populate his new land, he chooses the people that he wants to make citizens. Next, he builds a ship and prepares his chosen people for the long journey across the ocean.
The ship he provides is a large, beautiful ocean liner well-equipped with everything needed for the journey: food and water, showers with hot water, navigation charts, a crew and captain, and power to move the ship. The king puts everyone he has chosen aboard this ship and sends them on their way to their new home. Everything needed to reach the new country can be found aboard that ship.
Of course, the founder of this new country is God, the new country is heaven, and you and I are the ones he has chosen to journey there. The ship that He built is the Catholic Church, the captain is the pope, and the crew is the bishops, priests and deacons. The navigation charts are Scripture and Tradition. The showers are the sacraments of baptism and reconciliation, and the food and water for the journey is the Eucharist. The power that moves the ship is the Holy Spirit. Everything we need to reach heaven can be found within the Catholic Church.
The journey goes smoothly until the ship is halfway across the ocean. Then, some of the passengers start to argue and protest. Like the Israelites who grumbled about the manna in the desert, they begin to complain about eating the same food all the time. They ask,“Who is this captain, and why should he be in charge? Who gave these crew members the right to tell us what to do?” The protesters go down into the bottom of the ship where they find wood and rope, and they build rafts for themselves. They collect food and water, clothing and anything else they can find, and throw themselves and their rafts over the side of the ship. Now, they don’t have to listen to the captain and crew, or eat that same old food or even take those hot showers which made them uncomfortable. They are free!
The scene is amazing. Instead of a single ship sailing for its home port, there are now 33,000 or more small rafts in the water around the ship!(The Oxford University Encylcopedia of Christianity says there are 33,000 Protestant denominations today with more being added to this number each year.) Now this beautiful ship is surrounded by 33,000 rafts bobbing around it—each with its own captain giving conflicting and contradictory orders.
As the ship continues toward heaven, some of the rafts remain close by, but others drift off into the distance, and some are moving in the opposite direction and have lost their way completely. Those rafts that are close to the ship are sheltered from some of the wind and waves; those farther away are tossed about during the storms. The farther away they are, the less chance they have to make it to the other side.
Everything good on board the rafts came from the ship, but now they are cut off. Eventually, the food runs out, and the people begin to eat something other than what the king provided. There are no showers available for the people to get clean again. When I was a Protestant, I never realized that everything good that I had came from the Catholic Church. For example, the Bible was put together by Catholic bishops and copied and preserved by Catholic monks. Martin Luther even admitted that we wouldn’t have a Bible if it were not for “the papists.”
#158 Jun 22, 2013
” My Protestant fellowship only had two sacraments,
baptism and the Lord’s Supper, while the Catholic Church has seven. Those who are still out on the rafts need to be reminded that everything they have, they got from the Mother ship. One interesting point is that I did not jump off the ship; I was born on a raft. For a long time, I didn’t even know there was ship—it was nowhere
in sight! I was born on a Baptist raft, and I could yell over to the Methodist raft, and they could yell over to the Episcopalian raft, and they could yell over to the Anglican raft, and so forth. We called that fellowship.
Then one day, I caught a glimpse of something large on the horizon, and I said,“Hey, what is that?” They answered,“We don’t want to talk about it.”“Why not,” I asked.“Because it’s bad.”“What is it?”“It’s the ship.” Out of ignorance, I accepted the idea that the ship was bad. One day, however, it dawned on me that that the founder of the country I was trying to reach had created the ship to carry me home safely.“Of course,” I thought.“Why would God create 33,000 rafts competing to ferry His people home?” After reading and researching and praying, I got back on board the ship. I became a Catholic, and I’m amazed at what I have found onboard.
Cradle Catholics may take these things for granted, but we converts are in awe. You have seven sacraments, and they work! You have navigation
charts: the Scriptures and the Tradition that helps you make sense of the maps. You have a crew that understands how to read the maps and charts
without error, how to prepare the food, the Eucharist, properly, and how to operate the showers so that we can get cleaned up from all the foul smelling sins we commit. You also have a captain, the Pope, who actually knows where he’s going!
#159 Jun 22, 2013
The corruption of the ship, captain, and crew is why everyone got off. Hard to survive a journey across the sea when the food is spoiled and everyone has scurvy.
The good ship lollipop still isn't on course after all this time. Hit some glaciers on the way. Taking on water as we speak.
#160 Jun 22, 2013
I guess you have noticed that the catholic choir boys keep talking down to us.
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
These junior representatives from the stale catholic religion are parrots, it is impossible for them to have an original thought little hope and constantly under the yoke of works for salvation-gloom and despair.
#161 Jun 22, 2013
Says the people on the rafts, who keep taking wood from their rafts to make more, because they don't like the "point of view" of the other raft people. Because of SS, each will will have their own piece of wood.
#162 Jun 22, 2013
And he went up from thence unto Beth-el: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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