New Messianic Judaism congregation me...

New Messianic Judaism congregation meets in Euless

There are 292 comments on the A liberal dose story from Dec 8, 2007, titled New Messianic Judaism congregation meets in Euless. In it, A liberal dose reports that:

“The earliest Christians were Jews, but it grew into its own tradition. People are entitled to believe what they want, but they [Messianic congregations] are not really Jewish.”

A new Messianic Judaism congregation -- for Jews who convert to Christianity and non-Jews who believe Jesus is the Jewish messiah -- will meet for the first time today at Metroplex Chapel in Euless.

'There's been an awakening of Christians wanting to understand their Jewish heritage better,' said Rabbi Marty Cohen of Burkburnett, who will lead the new congregation, to be called Metroplex Messianic Fellowship.

Metroplex Chapel, a Nazarene church, has offered to share its space with the congregation, which will worship in traditional Jewish ways, Cohen said. Read more

Join the discussion below, or Read more at A liberal dose.

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Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#286 Mar 9, 2010
CHANA: huh?? Cheap Grace? You measure the price of grace by the amount of sacrifices, or Human Sacrifice and you call Genesis 4:7 Cheap Grace? Very paganistic of you.

BRUCE: I did not call Genesis 4:7 "cheap grace". You are twisting my words. Genesis 4:7 Tells us that we have a choice to battle temptations and walk Holy. It does NOT Tell us or imply that if and when we fail, that we don't have to have an offering for sin.

BRUCE (earlier): Now are you calling G-d's Sacrifices "paganistic"????? That's what it seems to me because you are making no distinctions between The Sacrifices G-d prescribes and pagan sacrifices! If you think that you have the ability not to sin because of Genesis 4:7,can you truly say that evil thoughts never come into your mind??? Can you truly say you never sin????

CHANA: No Bruce - your human sacrifice is what is pagan.

BRUCE: YOu tried to use Genesis 4:7 against G-d's Sacrifices and have failed. And this would have absolutely nothing to say on The Sacrifice of Yeshu`a in the sense you are speaking about. Since He is a Divine Being according to The Tanakh, it is not a mortal sacrifice. Again, I make almost all of my points from The Tanakh, not The NT.

CHANA: ANd your purposeful mis-reading of Genesis 4:7 shows what a powerful delusion you've allowed yourself to be under.

BRUCE: It is YOU who twists Genesis 4:7, because you falsely tried to use it to wrongly imply that it means that sacrifice is not necessary when we sin.

CHANA: Would you like us to alert you when someone adds a com

BRUCE: I check back often enough.

prayerfully,
Bruce
hongry and hongry no mo

Dallas, TX

#287 Mar 12, 2010
heath wrote:
<quoted text>
I am all too excited to finally read some logical points. i am most definately not jewish NOR am i a christian, but in fact, after years of research i have come to conclude that JC never existed in history. One of my MANY argument points is the simple fact that PAUL was the first one to write about this jesus character. there were no written documents from jesus' life span. decades later paul teaches of this figure and in fact, makes the claim that "if jesus had been on earth, he would not have been a priest" This statement very clearly dictates paul's view of jesus the christ as a mythological figure.
Hey Heath have you ever read the NT? Because you have your so called "facts" wrong. First-Read about what it is that you want to tear to apart at least your a-s will not be flapping in the wind.
hongry and hongry no mo

Dallas, TX

#288 Mar 12, 2010
falasha wrote:
<quoted text>
What about elohim?(Don't know a lot of hebrew)
If you want to learn-go to as simple of a place as Barnes&Noble and buy yourself The Torah: A Modern Commentary Make sure it is written in English and Hebrew with Gleanings and written passages for understanding. key words-Union of American Hebrew congregations. To understand Hebrew better try JPost.com key works-Learn Hebrew for free.
Also at B&Ns look for Tanakh The Holy Scriptures (Torah, Nevi'im, Kethuvim) keywords-The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text, JPS=The Jewish Publication Society.

Go online and pull up Hebrew for Christians-you will be taking NT lessons just more free help on how to understand or get a feel for Hebrew.

Most people that are not of Hebrew hertiage do feel comfortable at JCC but that is up to you.
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#289 Mar 13, 2010
HEALTH: heath wrote:
<quoted text>
I am all too excited to finally read some logical points. i am most definately not jewish NOR am i a christian, but in fact, after years of research i have come to conclude that JC never existed in history. One of my MANY argument points is the simple fact that PAUL was the first one to write about this jesus character. there were no written documents from jesus' life span.

BRUCE:[SUNDAY NIGHT JERUSALEM TIME]: It is a Jewish opinion that The Torah was not Written as we have it today as it was Written, but after. But I don't think you believe in any Scripture based on what you said above.

HEALTH: decades later paul teaches of this figure and in fact, makes the claim that "if jesus had been on earth, he would not have been a priest" This statement very clearly dictates paul's view of jesus the christ as a mythological figure.

BRUCE: Please quote chapter and verse, because Paul never made any such statement.

prayerfully,
Bruce
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#290 Mar 13, 2010
BRUCE:[SUNDAY NIGHT JERUSALEM TIME]: The more Christians learn the true Jewishness of The New Testament, not only the better they can truly understand it in context, but the more appreciation they have for G-d's Covenant with Isra'el and The Jewish people. Does anyone seriously believe the rabbis of Yeshu`as ("Jesus's) time called Him "Jesus"??? The Name "Jesus" was derived from a Greek translation of His True Name. And does anyone seriously believe G-d, who Wrote The Tem Commandments IN HEBREW with His Finger, Named His Holy Son "Jesus"??? Yet humans often give respect to people of different cultures by calling them by their original names given them by their foreign parents. When they come to your country, you expect them to talk to you in your language and you back to them the same. Yet you would not apply this to their name. You would learn the exact pronunciation of their real name their parents gave them. Yet why don't most people do this with Messiah????? I am not saying people are necessarily in sin if they use the name "Jesus", but the example I gave was to make people think.

prayerfully,
Bruce

Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#291 Mar 13, 2010
ANOTHER POINT ABOUT JEWISH ROOTS TO CHRISTIANS:

[SUNDAY NIGHT JERUSALEM TIME]: It is good to realize that The Greek in The NT is often a quotation of an idea or concept in The Tanakh ("Old Testament"). In fact, In The New Testament, The "Old Testament" is quoted directly numerous times. No one should read The NT without realizing that the beginning of it is NOT the start of "a new Bible" or "a new idea". In fact, The Jewish Names and words have significant meanings relevant to what The Texts are actually Saying. For example, "Yeshu`a" means "salvation" /'Deliverance". What a beautiful and appropriate Name for The Messiah! The Greek Name and its derivative are just translations of His Name. In fact, numerous times in The NT, we see the writers of Books translated Greek words into their Hebrew and Hebrew meanings to make it clear that a concept has a Hebraic and Jewish meaning. The Gospels took place in The Holy Land and among The Jewish people. Yeshu`a Taught Torah(Biblical Law-first 5 Books of Moses) but often disagreed with the interpretations and hypocritical applications of how the rabbis of His time taught and carried it out. We have ONE Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and still, probably other books were left out that shouldn't have been, like those in The Apocrypha.

prayerfully,
Bruce
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#292 Mar 13, 2010
My apologies to the group for the double-postings. Those who know me I'm sure know this is never my intention.

prayerfully,
Bruce
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#293 Mar 13, 2010
WHY GREEK IN THE NEW TESTAMENT?

[POSTED SUNDAY NIGHT JERSUALEM TIME]:

Two explanations here:

1) Some of the writers were writing to Hellenized Jews.

2) Some of the writers were in some cases not writing to Jews but to new Gentile believers dwelling outside of The Holy Land (like Paul).

3) In the case of The Gospel of Luke and Acts,(also written by Luke), he was writing to Theophilis. so it would be written in Greek originally.

In-regard to writers writing to Hellenized Jews, this would account why often in The Gospels, writers often translated Greek words into Hebrew and their Hebraic contexts. It is not hard to understand why this would be the case, since The Tanakh Records Jews in their history becoming assimilated into foreign paganistic cultures, as in Nehemiah and Ezra. Also, even today, it is evident that Jews often assimilate into the cultures of the lands they dwell in. In The Book of Acts, the presence of Hellenized Jews are clearly Recorded. Regarding Mattiyahu, not only is This Book often thought of to have a Hebrew or Aramaic original, but it is probable, since it is unlikely that the rabbis Recorded in it didn't go as far as to lose their knowledge of Hebrew and much of Jewish Law. Such an original is probable because of this. This Book has fewer explanations of Jewish concepts than Mark, Luke and John, assuming the reader has more knowledge of Judaism. Mark, Luke (Written to Theopholis) and John, all have extensive explanations in them of Jewish concepts, NOT assuming the readers would understand them. So it is likely Mark and John were Written to Gentile believers of The Jewishness of The Faith, assimilated Jews, or both. Paul's Writings probably were all originally in Greek because he was addressing Gentiles dwelling outside of The Holy Land. He may not have even realized he was writing "Scripture" when he wrote his letters to them. The bottom-line is that all of These Books have credibility when we take them apart in study and carefully examine them in their Hebraic contexts and concepts.

prayerfully,
Bruce
ex-mess

Hoschton, GA

#294 Mar 16, 2010
CHANA: No Bruce - your human sacrifice is what is pagan.

BRUCE: YOu tried to use Genesis 4:7 against G-d's Sacrifices and have failed. And this would have absolutely nothing to say on The Sacrifice of Yeshu`a in the sense you are speaking about. Since He is a Divine Being according to The Tanakh, it is not a mortal sacrifice. Again, I make almost all of my points from The Tanakh, not The NT.

Hi Bruce, I'm back for a brief few minutes - been wallpapering, and have family coming in next week, baruch Hashem!. I wanted to respond to our 'pagan sacrifice' discussion, but may be a while before I get back.

The fact that you think Yeshka is a divine being, therefore it was ok to sacrifice him, even tho he looked, lived, died like a man sends a false message to humankind. I want to return to Avraham's almost-sacrifice of Yitzhak. Remember that G-D took Avram out of his father's house and country where they worshipped idols and were into all sorts of practices that accompany idolatry.

G-D taught Avram that human sacrifice was wrong and that is is not something that G-D wants anyone to do. Avraham was tested many times, and his final test was to follow what G-D told him to do, without question. When he showed that he was 'willing' to obey, G-D put an end to the testing, in effect, putting an absolute end to human sacrifice.

The story about Avraham was given to instruct future generations that human sacrifice is NOT acceptable to G-D.

Therefore, I don't understand how G-D would reinstitute human sacrifice even one more time. Just as I don't understand how a G-D that forbids adultery would cause a betrothed woman to become pregnant and become a shamed woman, and for her child to be born a bastard since he was conceived while she was betrothed/married (same thing) to another man.

For G-D to give examples like these two: human sacrifice is ok sometimes, or adultery/bastard child is ok sometimes is not what I believe the G-D of Torah represents.
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#295 Mar 16, 2010
CHANA: No Bruce - your human sacrifice is what is pagan.

BRUCE: YOu tried to use Genesis 4:7 against G-d's Sacrifices and have failed. And this would have absolutely nothing to say on The Sacrifice of Yeshu`a in the sense you are speaking about. Since He is a Divine Being according to The Tanakh, it is not a mortal sacrifice. Again, I make almost all of my points from The Tanakh, not The NT.

CHANA:Hi Bruce, I'm back for a brief few minutes - been wallpapering, and have family coming in next week, baruch Hashem!. I wanted to respond to our 'pagan sacrifice' discussion, but may be a while before I get back.
The fact that you think Yeshka is a divine being, therefore it was ok to sacrifice him, even tho he looked, lived, died like a man sends a false message to humankind.

BRUCE: G-d can do anything He wants, and whatever He does is never wrong or false. While Divine Beings can be good or evil, and can preform miracles, Yeshu`a preformed miracles, proving He is a Divine Being. And His Divinity and justification is all dependent on The Tanakh.

CHANA:I want to return to Avraham's almost-sacrifice of Yitzhak. Remember that G-D took Avram out of his father's house and country where they worshipped idols and were into all sorts of practices that accompany idolatry.
G-D taught Avram that human sacrifice was wrong and that is is not something that G-D wants anyone to do. Avraham was tested many times, and his final test was to follow what G-D told him to do, without question. When he showed that he was 'willing' to obey, G-D put an end to the testing, in effect, putting an absolute end to human sacrifice.

The story about Avraham was given to instruct future generations that human sacrifice is NOT acceptable to G-D.

Therefore, I don't understand how G-D would reinstitute human sacrifice even one more time. Just as I don't understand how a G-D that forbids adultery would cause a betrothed woman to become pregnant and become a shamed woman, and for her child to be born a bastard since he was conceived while she was betrothed/married (same thing) to another man.

BRUCE: Two points here:

1) Here, we are Speaking of things G-d Told man not to do verses the things G-d has Ordained.
2) A Divine Being sent from G-d would not fall under the same rules as the prohibitions G-d gives to MORTAL man. The birth of Yeshu`a was not a regular mortal siring of a mortal. If it were than you would have a valid point. The same would be true if The Sacrifice of Yeshu`a were that of a mortal human being. However, The Tanakh Tells us that HaMoshiach would be a Divine Being from G-d.

CHANA: For G-D to give examples like these two: human sacrifice is ok sometimes, or adultery/bastard child is ok sometimes is not what I believe the G-D of Torah represents.

BRUCE: Again, you are looking at this all from a limited mortal perspective. G-d did not have sex with Miriyam. And The Sacrifice of Yeshu`a was not a human Sacrifice. If He was a mortal human being, then you would be right in both examples. By your reasoning, we should not have doctors doing medical research to keep people alive longer, since all life is controlled by G-d. Even thought it is clearly not the same thing, you in your reasoning could see it as the same. See my point?

prayerfully,
Bruce
ex-mess

Hoschton, GA

#296 Mar 20, 2010
G-D does not lie, does not steal, does not commit adultery. G-D does not MAKE people lie, or steal, or commit adultery. People do it with their own free will. However, Mary/Miriam got pregnant, she had no witnesses, except the father, who conveniently has gone unnamed. She lied to Joseph to save her life.

Why was JC disrespectful to his mother? This is a very serious Torah offense. Of course, the unknown writers of the gospels wouldn't know this as they developed their story line(s).
Bruce

Santa Clara, CA

#297 Mar 20, 2010
CHANA: G-D does not lie, does not steal, does not commit adultery. G-D does not MAKE people lie, or steal, or commit adultery. People do it with their own free will. However, Mary/Miriam got pregnant, she had no witnesses, except the father, who conveniently has gone unnamed. She lied to Joseph to save her life.

BRUCE: The Father never went unamed. The Father is G-d Himself, as The Texts clearly Tell us. The fact that you say "the father went unamed" tells me clearly that you read The NT carelessly. As far as witnesses goes, whom were the witnesses who testified that G-d Spoke to Isaiah, Jeremiah, or any of the other prophets????

CHANA: Why was JC disrespectful to his mother? This is a very serious Torah offense.

BRUCE: He was NEVER disrespectful to His mother. This is another lie of the anti-missionaries. There are no NT texts that even suggest this.

CHANA: Of course, the unknown writers of the gospels wouldn't know this as they developed their story line(s).

BRUCE: If they didn't know it and record that He was disrespectful to His mother, then how do you know He was?????????? If you read The NT just to find fault with it, then you are not reading it with any open-mind. This kind of reading of The Text cannot produce an honest look at The Text, as you are already trying to manufacture faults with it. In the fast, there were times anti-missionaries occasionally presented what I felt were reasonable arguments, to which I made good efforts to look into them as unbiasedly as I could. But most of what they offered was twisting of The Texts and untruths. What you presented above is the latter. As to your claim of unknown authors of NT Books, as I have previously pointed out, there are Tanakh Books also where The Author(s) are not known.

prayerfully,
Bruce

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