Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[MAAT]

When the Makkans heard that the Muslims had begun to live within the Christian community peacefully, they sent a delegation of learn-ed people to the King to persuade him to deport the Muslims from Abyssinia. There was a debate in front of the King between the Muslims and the Makkan delegation about what and how the Muslims believed. After the end of the debate, the King rejected the requests of the Makkans along with their gifts.12 This was the first helping hand for the young but frail Muslim community from a Christian ruler.

The Delegation of Najran Christians

No doubt the most important interaction between the Christians and the Prophet was the visit of the Najran delegation to Madina. Makka and Madina had a very small Christian population (Waraqa ibn Nawfal was one of them). The majority of Christian residents lived in Najran. The Prophet’s first important encounter with Christian clergies was in the 9th year of Hijra (AD 631), one or two years before his death.

Prophet Muhammad had been sending official letters to different countries and their rulers, inviting them to Islam. Among these were two different invitations that had been sent to Najran with Khaled ibn al-Walid and Ali ibn Abi Talib.13 At that time the Najran Christians had a highly organized religious life. Before Islam, foreign teachers had even visited the town, such as the Italian priest Gregentius, which had deepen-ed their religious knowledge.14 Few of the Najran Christians converted to Islam; the majority of them did not change their religion after these invitations. Prophet Muhammad sent a representative to them, Mughira ibn Shu’ba, who was sent to explain the invitations and the religion of Islam. After discussions with Mughira, the Christians of Najran decided to send a group of people to visit the Prophet. The delegation was made up of about 60 well-educated Christians: A bishop, his 45 scholars, and 15 men. Their intention was to learn the nature of the revelations Prophet Muhammad was receiving.15

When the Najran delegation reached Madina, they debated with the Prophet in an investigatory dialogue for two or three days in the mosque (Masjid) of Madina. Prophet Muhammad allow-ed them to pray in the mosque (Masjid al-Nabawi) where the Muslims prayed. The whole incident was the first occurrence of peaceful dialogue between Christians and Muslims; it was the first time that Christians prayed in a mosque.16

[MAAT]

Prophet Muhammad warmly welcomed the Najran delegation and provided them with a place to stay in Madina, in a secure place close to his mosque. He even ordered that their tent be pitched for them by the Muslims. However, the Najran delegation and Prophet Muhammad were not able to reach a solution in theological terms. At the end of these exchanges, the Najran Christians told the Prophet:“O, Abu al-Qasim, we decided to leave you as you are and you leave us as we are. But send with us a man who can adjudicate things on our properties, because we accept you.” The delegation was granted their request and a written assurance was provided by the Prophet that their lives, property, and religion would be protected. He made witnesses sign this undertaking.17 The Najran Christians were the first Christian community with whom the Prophet had a jizyah 18 agreement. At the beginning of the meeting, they had disagreements with the Prophet about the concept of the Trinity, but later on they were able to make a social pact.19 This contract was an initial step that would lead to further developments.

Conclusion

As Muhammad Hamidullah states “of all the religions, the Prophet found Christianity the most sympathetic, although with certain serious reservations.”20 Accepting differences to be “as they are” was the first step in establishing peaceful relations between the Christians and Prophet Muhammad some fourteen hundred years ago.

It is apparent that Christians and Muslims believe in and pray to the same God, the Creator of the universe. Both Muslims and Christians ask for help and forgiveness from the same God. Both of them declare the importance of “peace”; so, it is only natural to expect that the followers of the two traditions would be able to establish peace together all around the world.

[MAAT]

Local problems do not stay local any longer. Today’s local issue will be tomorrow’s global problem. Struggles, wars, clashes, hunger, ecological crises, the threat of nuclear holocaust, and the colonization of humanity are not just a particular religion’s problem; they are worldwide problems that affect all believers.“There is no local situation that is not impinged upon by the wider cultural-political situation.”21 Understanding each other well, respecting others, and accepting others as they are would be a great step toward solving the global problems of the different religious communities. The more believers share and understand the global crisis the more suitable a habitat for human kind this world will become.

Footnotes

1 Martin Lings, Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, Allen & Unwin, U.K., 1983, p. 29.
2 In some sources the name of the monk is mentioned “Sergius.” See: Mustafa Fayda,“Bahira” TDV Islam Ansiklopedisi, Istanbul 1991, IV, 486.
3 Under Alexander Severus (222-235) Bostra became a Roman colony. See: S. Vailhé,“Bostra,” The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume II, Online Edition, 1999 by Kevin Knight.
4 For details P.S: Ibn Hisham, Abd al-Malik, al-Sirat al Nabaviyyah, Egypt 1955, I, 180-183.
5 M. Lings, Muhammad, p. 29-30.
6 Mustafa Fayda,“Bahira” TDV Islam Ansiklopedisi, Istanbul 1991; Daniel, Islam and the West, p.101,105,109.
7 Ibn Hisham, I, 236-238.
8 Al-Bukhari, Muhammad ibn Isma’il, Sahih al-Bukhari, Dar al-Fikr,(Arabic-English Edition), I, 2-3
9 Ibn Hisham, I, 217-221.
10 Ibn Hisham, I, 221-230
11 R. Marston Speight, God Is One: The Way of Islam (New York: Friendship Press, 1989), pp. 1-2.
12 Ibn Hisham, I, 233-238
13 Name of a valley in North Yemen, where there was a Christian population inhabiting the highest range in the Arabian Peninsula at that time.
14 Hamidullah, Muhammad Rasulullah, p. 103.
15 Ibn Hisham, I, 575.
16 Ibn Hisham, I, 575-577.
17 http://www.dehai.org/archives/dehai_news_arch... oct02/0640.html,(12/11/2004)
18 Jizyah: A tax paid by non-Muslims living in a Muslim state. Since the non-Muslims are exempt from military service and taxes imposed on Muslims, they must pay this tax in compensation. It guarantees them security and protection. If the state cannot protect those who paid jizyah, then the amount they paid is returned to them.
19 Ahmet Bostanci, Hz Peygamber’in Gayri Muslimlerle Iliskileri, Ragbet Yayinlari, Istanbul 2001, p. 60, 167
20 Hamidullah, Muhammad Rasulullah, p. 76.
21 David Tracy,“Practical Theology in the Situation of Global Pluralism,” in (ed.) L. Mudge -J. Poling, The Promise of Practical Theology, Fortress Press 1983, p. 140.

[Frijoles]

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
The atheist , secular and humanist communities have been following this guy for a while. The scariest part isn't his beliefs, since many evangelicals think that way and we're used to it. The scariest part is that he chairs the House Science Commitee..
BTW - he's been married four times. Guess he picks and chooses what he's going to follow from the bible.

Its all ok though.

The homophobic Jamaican known as Hughbe finds confort knowing that people sensible people like him exist.

[MAAT]

The martyrs of Najran are remembered in the Christian calendars and are even mentioned in the Surat al-Buruj of the Q'uran 85:4–8, where the persecutions are condemned and the steadfast believers are praised:

...slain were the men of the pit (Al-Ukhdood), the fire abounding in fuel, when they were seated over it, and were themselves witnesses of what they did with the believers. They took revenge on them because they believed in God the All-mighty, the All-laudable...

--Though again there is confusion as to who actually ruled. And we wonder why a curly head would go and kill the other Aksum curly heads living in Yemen, when they were treatened to be killed.
The negus of Abbessinia set the christians free...what is meant is that the najran became a dhimmy-state.
So again it was all about war and trade.

Logic does not enter in creationist thinking, someone said.
Never fear the quraan is here:
Because the same thing happened to Ibrahim under the hands of Nimrod in 13 c BC Assyria. As to the burning alive in a ditch filled with wood.
(were do they get that stuff)
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php ?...

[MAAT]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Its all ok though.
The homophobic Jamaican known as Hughbe finds confort knowing that people sensible people like him exist.

Then he will certainly be happy to hear that the good doctor speeched that the earth is only 9000 years old.

[MAAT]

What did actually happen. A strange interfaith dialogue ending in 5:51 not to make friends with jews and christians, with those under duress.
Hence the mentioning of apostle-prophet. General for his god.
The najran and jews came in a long line of delegations that were offered vazal-ship or war (let's curse each other)
For some reason muslims read muh-ahmed in the hebrew book. Well they read a lot in it, without ever having read it. So kept calling the jews of Medina liars and demanding magic prophetic tricks from them, to proof the tanakh true. As they did from the Najran christians. Islam is most likely based on nestorian faith, partways.
The ditch-story is not discussed at any point.
Later under Umar the christians were expelled to Syria.
Another interesting read.
https://docs.google.com/viewer...

[MAAT]

What it later became (the first narrative was overtaken with trial by prayer stories):
http://islam101.net/real-tales/304-the-ditche...
Al-Buruj would have these be the ditches of fire were the believers of Allah T'ala ended up.
And this remark i find very interesting.
If this originally meant god of the post/stake, thus of christians as i once debated.(onesided i might add) And not allah is one, since this would mean that believe in Allah means you'll burn/are punished.

Well given the same ideas in christianity about what to do till the last day...and on that last day.

[MAAT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod#The_evil_...
Titus was visited by gnats, kind of revenge literature.
I learned that Titus was a real badboy. Around 80 CE he also burned the public libraries instituted by August in 28 CE.
The talmud relates the story but in the shape of a discussion between an almighty king nimrod and Abram, juxtaposing them, a sort of illustration of proverbs 16:9 a.o. but only in the middleages.(1,8 million pages, more than a hundred contributors and spanning 7 generations.)

[MAAT]

Short recall:
Allah Ta'ala is One. There is no one equal to Allah Ta'ala, either in being, qualities, actions, commands or names. Allah Ta'ala is "Waajibul Wujood", in other words, His Existence is compulsory. His destruction is impossible. Allah Ta'ala always was and always will be.
Allah Ta'ala is neither anyone's father, not is He anyone's son. Allah Ta'ala does not have a wife. Anyone who shows Allah Ta'ala to have a father or for Him to be anyone's son or to prove that Allah Ta'ala has a wife is a Kaafir (non-believer). If anyone thinks or imagines this to be possible, then that person he is misled and irreligious.
Allah Ta'ala is present and in existence. The term used to define this is "Hai". Everyone?s life and existence is in the control of Allah Ta'ala. He gives life and causes death to whomever He pleases.
It is also not necessary that everything in the power of Allah Ta'ala should come into existence even though it is possible for it to come into existence. An example of this is that if Allah Ta'ala wills, He may create a mountain made from solid gold, but there is no such mountain. However, if Allah Ta'ala wishes, then it will exist even though it does not exist at present.

end quote.
As a matter of fact we could read nothing that could also not be attributed to jesus.
Ah and we had the problem with jesus dying on the cross which proved that he could not be a god.
But for some reason someone had to die on the cross and jesus saved. WHY?
See the previous post, as to why the very first narrator on the najran xians was out of flavour.

[Frijoles]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>
Then he will certainly be happy to hear that the good doctor speeched that the earth is only 9000 years old.

You know, there IS a reason that no major scientific discoveries or innovations ever came from the island of Jamaica.

[MAAT]

The actual verse:
66:12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee ahsanatfarjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohinawasaddaqat bikalimati rabbiha wakutubihi wakanatmina alqaniteena

Another clue. Either to leaving each religions to it's own time and place. As with the prophets.
Or an acknowledgement of Allah's plurality.
Though admittedly they did not get jewish philosophy and religion one bit.

[MAAT]

Why, i wonder, would someone living in Axum, Abessinia, working for the Negus, be an eyewitness to an event in Yemen?
Who's narrative is based upon an islamic tradition about Ibrahim.
Any story would be repeated about christians being martyrs, but i'm putting serious question marks as to the perpetrator.

[MAAT]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
You know, there IS a reason that no major scientific discoveries or innovations ever came from the island of Jamaica.

Lack of logic...
Ah silly me, you mean that they simply lacked time to evolve.

The music is pretty good though.

[MAAT]

Right...what day is this.
Got islam out of my system again.

Time to relax.
L'hitraot Frijoles.

[former res]

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
The atheist , secular and humanist communities have been following this guy for a while. The scariest part isn't his beliefs, since many evangelicals think that way and we're used to it. The scariest part is that he chairs the House Science Commitee..
BTW - he's been married four times. Guess he picks and chooses what he's going to follow from the bible.

That makes it even scarier.

He sounds like a "cafeteria Christian."

Might as well put Huggybear in charge of science!

[Frijoles]

MAAT wrote:

Right...what day is this.
.
L'hitraot Frijoles.

Its Hoshanna Rabbah

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
That makes it even scarier.
He sounds like a "cafeteria Christian."
Might as well put Huggybear in charge of science!

Someone has to be in charge of those textbooks.

[SeasideSoon]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
You would make a good republican.

Actually Reverend Wright's group is more suitable - no Republicans there.
"GD America"

[SeasideSoon]

What is the capital of Israel anyway?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...