Who

Baldwin, GA

#17647 Jul 8, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
In regard to healthcare, I don't think anyone would argue with you that our system was far from perfect and that insurance companies could be a bureaucratic minefield. But there were reasonable changes that could have been made that would not have required such a complete transformation (and IMO crippling) of what was still the best healthcare available. Simply allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines in order to increase competition and lower prices would have been huge. Torte reform to lessen the "defensive medicine" that doctors - especially emergency room doctors- practice would also be huge. No one is advocating for those truly harmed by negligent physicians to not be able to sue, but the virtual lottery system that civil lawyers have made out of medical malpractice is criminal. Creation of a pool of the uninsured that insurance companies would have to take a portion of would have been reasonable. I don't think many would have had a problem even potentially subsidizing such a pool. But Obamacare was not and is not the answer, it only will create a whole host of new problems.
The Heritage Foundation, e a conservative think tank, posted an interesting article today. Regardless of their political bent, facts are facts, as they lay out.
http://blog.heritage.org/2013/07/08/morning-b...
In regard to education, this country spends more than most countries per student already and fails miserably. And the blame can be laid at teachers' unions and a blotted bureaucracy. Throwing more money after bad is not the answer. Tax money following the student (rather than the student following the tax money) to whatever school the parents choose is my answer.

Thanks for the link.
Just think, demos who supported the bill are now pointing fingers at Obama for failure to implement.
Will worlds never cease! Democrats who duck and dodge the year before an election.

Even the demo who wrote the bill said it was a train wreck, and yet the Lemmings keep running toward the cliff.
Informed Opinion

United States

#17648 Jul 8, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
@ Informed Opinion

I feel as though I am in need of a reality check, I was catching up on the last 12 hours and find myself agreeing with the vast majority of the content of your posts.
===
I am against Obamacare because I believe it will cripple our healthcare system and balloon our deficit while still leaving 30 million uninsured (by CBO numbers). But I would like to reverse a great argument you made - if you do not trust the government to not misuse all the data they are collecting, how can you trust that same government to run a nationalized healthcare system that will also have your most personal medical information at the touch of a button?
====
I still think it is crazy to call Obama a right winger and TR a conservative.
We agree on immigration and deporting aliens; and the president not being a king allowed to declare war; and the need to repeal the Unpatriotic and stop spying on Americans in violation of the Constitution; I think.

I think we disagree on ObamaCare- I think it doesn't go far enough as it doesn't create single-payor government managed, universal health care; you think it's bad.

Hey ..... 3 out of 4 or 5 ain't bad.
Informed Opinion

United States

#17650 Jul 8, 2013
James wrote:
Why is it so hard for people to realize there has to ba a better way of providing some form of health care to uninsured people that truly can't afford it. I'm not saying by any means Obama care, as it is currently written is the perfect solution to our problems. We have been stuck in so many ruts in this country that contine to only cause us to fall behind the rest of the wold in almost every way. We waist enormous sums of money and resources over the years on polices and wars that are fought for reasons we know not to be the reasons we are told. Our war on drugs is a complete failler and by some estimated cost us a total of nearly a trillion dollars a year. Our education system is nearly as bad and our health care system is falling behind the rest of the world as well. I believe if pumped money into education and health the way we have wars and bad government all these years we would still be the greatest country on earth today. How can we get back to the top ? We all have different opinions of what it will take, this is mine
Great post.

Why we can't learn from the rest of the world, I'll never understand.

Why making people carry insurance for their health care isn't just as reasonable as making people carry liability insurance for their cars, isn't obvious, is troubling.

Why we can't see that making deadbeats and freeloaders pay for their own health care, instead of dumping it off on others, is a "conservative" solution, is baffling.
Who

Baldwin, GA

#17651 Jul 8, 2013
Obama keeps changing Obamacare, otherwise known as the Affordable Care Act with no legs, arms, or digestive system.

So Obama keeps playing with his wooden doll, sticking pins here, there, and everywhere. He keeps giving it first aid, cardiac shock, even morphine and the wooden doll keeps rotting from the inside out.
He must have never learned the precise art of voodoo.


"Administration makes another ObamaCare change, relaxes standards for subsidies."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/08/ad...
Who

Baldwin, GA

#17652 Jul 8, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post.
Why we can't learn from the rest of the world, I'll never understand.
Why making people carry insurance for their health care isn't just as reasonable as making people carry liability insurance for their cars, isn't obvious, is troubling.
Why we can't see that making deadbeats and freeloaders pay for their own health care, instead of dumping it off on others, is a "conservative" solution, is baffling.

Well, because the rest of the world is behind us, want to be us, keep coming here to live, want our women, our cars, our beaches, but especially our hospitals and our fine medical care with many of the best doctors in the world.

Your insurance comparison sentence is a bird dog that won't hunt. Hello!, a difference between liability and collision.

And your last dog won't hunt either. Deadbeats and freeloaders won't pay a penny as they will be subsidized(other taxpayers their way.)

If I was you, I would shoot those dogs, they aint worth anything.

James

Blue Ridge, GA

#17653 Jul 8, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, because the rest of the world is behind us, want to be us, keep coming here to live, want our women, our cars, our beaches, but especially our hospitals and our fine medical care with many of the best doctors in the world.
Your insurance comparison sentence is a bird dog that won't hunt. Hello!, a difference between liability and collision.
And your last dog won't hunt either. Deadbeats and freeloaders won't pay a penny as they will be subsidized(other taxpayers their way.)
If I was you, I would shoot those dogs, they aint worth anything.
We carry auto insurance because if you don't have it and something goes wrong it hurts other people as well as yourself. The same applies to people without health insurance, if you ever need medical attention, minor surgery or something catastrophic, currently your cost also includes other people's cost that had no insurance. It not complicated.
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17654 Jul 8, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>Well, because the rest of the world is behind us, want to be us, keep coming here to live, want our women, our cars, our beaches, but especially our hospitals and our fine medical care with many of the best doctors in the world.

Your insurance comparison sentence is a bird dog that won't hunt. Hello!, a difference between liability and collision.

And your last dog won't hunt either. Deadbeats and freeloaders won't pay a penny as they will be subsidized(other taxpayers their way.)

If I was you, I would shoot those dogs, they aint worth anything.
Those dogs not only hunt, they tree those silly arguments against universal healthcare.

Freeloading Deadbeats are the only ones who can logically be against universal healthcare.

Let's see:
- If you already are insured, you're mot a freeloading deadbeat, nothing changes - so no problem;
- If you don't want to be a freeloading deadbeat, but can't afford it insurance, your insurance is subsidized, so you'll love it;
- If you believe everyone should be responsible for themselves, then you want others to insure themselves and their families - so you'll love it;

Conclusion:

Unless you want to be a freeloading deadbeat - you'll love universal healthcare insurance - and as ObamaCare is the closet thing available - you'll love it.

But if you want to be a freeloading deadbeat .....
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17655 Jul 8, 2013
James wrote:
<quoted text>We carry auto insurance because if you don't have it and something goes wrong it hurts other people as well as yourself. The same applies to people without health insurance, if you ever need medical attention, minor surgery or something catastrophic, currently your cost also includes other people's cost that had no insurance. It not complicated.
Great post.

I am so tired of supporting those freeloading deadbeats who refuse to insure themselves and their families, them show up at the E.R. demanding we pay to save their, or their kids' lives.

After they walk away with free health care, that we taxpayers and insured people pay for, they start whining that others are "forcing" them to be personally responsible.

How the hell can any person who calls themselves "conservative" be against demanding people exercise personal responsibility ?
Who

Baldwin, GA

#17656 Jul 8, 2013
James wrote:
<quoted text>
We carry auto insurance because if you don't have it and something goes wrong it hurts other people as well as yourself. The same applies to people without health insurance, if you ever need medical attention, minor surgery or something catastrophic, currently your cost also includes other people's cost that had no insurance. It not complicated.

Perhaps you and IO can give us some clue how you compare auto insurance with health insurance. Apparently it's complicated enough you two don't understand the difference. So please tell us the similarities that make them the same.

Ever heard of uninsured motorist coverage??
Do you understand the difference between collision and liability insurance?
wandering

West Palm Beach, FL

#17657 Jul 8, 2013
johnny is the man
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17658 Jul 8, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>Perhaps you and IO can give us some clue how you compare auto insurance with health insurance. Apparently it's complicated enough you two don't understand the difference. So please tell us the similarities that make them the same.

Ever heard of uninsured motorist coverage??
Do you understand the difference between collision and liability insurance?
Let me suggest a very easy analogy.

In Florida, and many states, you are required to carry both liability and PIP insurance.

The liability insurance is to assure that should your motor vehicle cause damage to others, there is insurance to pay for such damage.

That way, when some poor schmuck is put in the hospital or requires medical care, through the negligent operation of your vehicle. the taxpayers and those who carry insurance won't be required to pay the hospital and medical bills you should be responsible for.

That's called personal responsibility.

Additionally, many states require you carry PIP insurance that directly pays the hospital and medical bills, of you and your passengers, caused by, or resulting from the operation of your motor vehicle, regardless of whether such operation is negligent or not, so that the taxpayers and those who carry insurance, aren't forced to pay the hospital and medical bills you should be responsible for.

That's called personal responsibility.

Now ObamaCare also requires you carry health insurance so that when you or your children are injured or ill, the taxpayers and those who carry insurance, aren't forced to pay the hospital and medical bills that you should be responsible for.

That's also called personal responsibility.

I hope that is helpful.
Who

Baldwin, GA

#17659 Jul 8, 2013
@ IO

"Those dogs not only hunt, they tree those silly arguments against universal healthcare."

Sorry IO, but your dogs are nothing but sooner dogs. Don't know the difference between a rat (universal insurance) and the best healthcare system in the world. Besides Obamacare is not universal healthcare, so your dog’s just keep right on barking up the wrong tree. Useless dogs they are too.


"Freeloading Deadbeats are the only ones who can logically be against universal healthcare."

Yep, thanks to your Godhead Obama (you did vote for him) those deadbeats include 11 million illegals we know about, but some estimate there are 20-30 million.


“Let's see:
- If you already are insured, you're mot a freeloading deadbeat, nothing changes - so no problem;”

Those sorry dogs are barking up a wrong tree again, everyone’s insurance rates will go up.

“- If you don't want to be a freeloading deadbeat, but can't afford it insurance, your insurance is subsidized, so you'll love it;”

Yep, subsidizing is an Obama specialty with my money, your money, and everyone’s money. We already do that with indigent emergency care (those with no insurance,) but our taxes will go even higher with Obamacare.

“- If you believe everyone should be responsible for themselves, then you want others to insure themselves and their families - so you'll love it;”

Yep, but with Obamacare, it’s not going to happen. The young and healthy will probably forego Obamacare, small business will cut back hours worked so the lower paid individuals will be subsidized with our tax money if they want insurance (but still will pay some out of pocket, food off the table.)

“Conclusion:”

Your dogs are still useless as are your arguments,“dead in the water” comparisons.

“Unless you want to be a freeloading deadbeat - you'll love universal healthcare insurance - and as ObamaCare is the closet thing available - you'll love it.”

You are correct, Obamacare is a closet thing, he didn’t bring it out of the closet even when the demos rammed it through congress, with the help of some rinos. Now that it’s out of the closet we find it has the smell of skunk all over it and your sorry dogs can’t even smell it.
If you love higher health insurance cost with less health care coverage, delays, and a board which chooses what is covered and what is not, vote for Obamacare. The least coverage with the most cost.

“But if you want to be a freeloading deadbeat .....‘

Join IO and his merry band of useless dogs that can’t sniff a rat when in their face.

Who

Baldwin, GA

#17660 Jul 8, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>

I hope that is helpful.

No, it's not helpful at all. In fact there are no similarities.

With Obamacare it is NOT mandatory, there is a monetary penalty only for not having it. A penalty and mandatory is not equal, the same thing, or any other word you want to use.

In those States with auto insurance requirements, it is mandatory to get a tag and a drivers license. In addition if your auto insurance lapses, you can not only be fined with a ticket but your license can be revoked, go to jail, and get tied up in our court system and wish you were never born.

Kill those sorry dogs you have! or better yet trade them in for some cats. The cats will recognize a rat real fast.








Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#17661 Jul 8, 2013
@IO
You still haven't answered my question, if Obamacare is going to be so great for the country why, when they have already had 3 years to get ready, are they now delaying the employer mandate until after the election?

And if Obamacare is going to be so great and we needed to do it for the 40 million uninsured, why do the CBO numbers show that even after implementation, there will still be almost 30 million uninsured?

Is it really worth the complete upheaval of our medical system in order to additionally insure a grand total of 10-15 million people -3-4% of the population, when there were other, far less drastic options available?
jeb stuart

Cordele, GA

#17662 Jul 8, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
It's OK with me to increase the national debt $30 Billion to put more guards on the border - if we throw those who employee illegals in prison.
The former will make it harder for Pedro to cross the Rio Grande, or Petr from crossing in from Canada; the latter will make them not want to bother.
Just sayin....
Great post, info-op. I wonder if anyone has ever seriously looked at how much it would cost to try to build a secure wall just on the U.S./Mexican border(the longest continuous land border in the world). There was one proposed under the last Bush administration(I think), the only problem was that it had huge gaps because it created problems for some very wealthy and influential people, the one that I most remember was a country club/golf course that spanned the border in Texas- it was to be exempt, just like dozens of others. How much sense does that make. As you say, it is a matter of capitalism, if you cut out the demand, then the supply will dry up.
Chuck

Dahlonega, GA

#17665 Jul 9, 2013
I know Chuck personally. He is the one we want!
Who

Baldwin, GA

#17666 Jul 9, 2013
I see we have 1 vote for Johnny and 1 vote for Chuck.

They must be mystery men, I've not heard of them.
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#17667 Jul 9, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>No, it's not helpful at all. In fact there are no similarities.

With Obamacare it is NOT mandatory, there is a monetary penalty only for not having it. A penalty and mandatory is not equal, the same thing, or any other word you want to use.

In those States with auto insurance requirements, it is mandatory to get a tag and a drivers license. In addition if your auto insurance lapses, you can not only be fined with a ticket but your license can be revoked, go to jail, and get tied up in our court system and wish you were never born.

Kill those sorry dogs you have! or better yet trade them in for some cats. The cats will recognize a rat real fast.
In the immortal words of Dobie Gillis :

"Maynard, what you said just doesn't make any sense"
Informed Opinion

United States

#17668 Jul 9, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
@IO
You still haven't answered my question, if Obamacare is going to be so great for the country why, when they have already had 3 years to get ready, are they now delaying the employer mandate until after the election?

And if Obamacare is going to be so great and we needed to do it for the 40 million uninsured, why do the CBO numbers show that even after implementation, there will still be almost 30 million uninsured?

Is it really worth the complete upheaval of our medical system in order to additionally insure a grand total of 10-15 million people -3-4% of the population, when there were other, far less drastic options available?
That's an easy one.

First, the survey says that uninsured are certain they'll buy insurance -- that doesn't mean they won't have to pay fines to help be responsible for their health care costs.

That's what seems to drive Right Winger mad, that those who don't obtain insurance are taxed and fined to cover the costs of their irresponsibility.

So, either way, we get them insured or they are forced to pay toward their costs and I am relieved to some extent of supporting their freeloading deadbeat butts.

But further.

Why would we want to let "the perfect" be the enemy of "the possible" ?

If we have 40 millions uninsured freeloading deadbeats who for force you and I to pay their medical costs because they want to spend their money on ATVs, PBR, or Mad Dog 20/20;

... and we pass a law that takes at least 10,000,000 of them and makes them be responsible adults;

... We should just give up because the law isn't perfect enough to force all freeloading deadbeats to pay their own way;

.... Instead we should throw our the law because it's not perfect enough to stop all freeloading deadbeats from being, at least partial, freeloading deadbeats ?

Here's my question -

Why are Right Wingers,(who claim to be all about personal responsibility), so outraged that freeloading deadbeats might be forced to be responsible for their own health care costs ?

There can be only two answers:

1- Right Wingers really don't give a damn about personal responsibly,

or

2- Right Wingers are the freeloading deadbeats.

If there is a third answer let me know.

o great moron

Blairsville, GA

#17669 Jul 9, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Eve, just because you say so doesn't make it true. Just because you say I'm over 65 doesn't make it true. Just because you say hospitals must make a profit doesn't make it true.
There are many untrue statements in your post. I'm not going to point them out, you wouldn't believe me anyway.
You keep asking for information while providing none, except opinions of course. Well sorry dude, I'm not an information booth on the highway for the dumb.
But you can put this in your hat to wear around, or in your pipe and smoke it instead of the weed.
The IRS is going to administer Obamacare, must give you a warm and fuzzy feeling all over.
"The IRS Mistakenly Exposed Thousands of Social Security Numbers."
http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/the-irs-m...
O great moron, the IRS doesn't administer the health care bill. Its that what conservative talk radio is saying these days. Oh my, what some people will say to make a couple million a year baiting fools like you!! The IRS monitors who participates and who doesn't and they will collect the penalty from people who CHOOSE not to be in the system. Why don't you do another google search on IRS mistakes, you will find a lot. Its a big operation and its JOB is to get people to obey the tax LAWS passed by CONGRESS, not the IRS. You know you cheat on your taxes, most do to some extent, the
IRS is mandated by Congress to get the money Congress wants. Why
do you blame the messenger and not the people in charge, Congress.
The IRS is like the TVA, they have a job to do mandated by Congress and a lot of people don't like what they do. So Congress gives them a lot of room to make things happen, like taking away good land from good people to build a lake to generate power for all the people. That's what the IRS does, it takes your money and gives it to government to do things for all people. Some people
don't like it but its the job they are given by Congress.

Why don't you google just how many times credit card info including ssi numbers have been hacked, you still carry a credit card don't you.

Nice copout, you won't point out the lies I posted because I wouldn't believe you anyway. To some degree you are correct, but if you post a real news source or study by a reputable organization I will surely consider it. But you don't get information for them now do you?

I get a warm fuzzy feeling in my stomach when I consider people like you vote, just before I puke.

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