Who do you support for U.S. Senate in...
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#31023 Nov 12, 2013
guest wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
Is belief in a creator a pre-requisite to possessing morals? No. It's hardly a new topic of discussion,(going at least as far back as Plato, no slouch philosopher he), but one that seems difficult for some folks to grasp....
I suspect that our moral grounding goes back 100's of thousands of years (millions) and is derived from the cooperation that was shown among the group, empathy for the feelings of others is the fertile ground for doin unto others. The group simply functions better when strife and discord is at a minimum. Cooperation among groups can have many desirable survival features, and it's easy to understand how the why of empathy, and the cooperation that springs from it, carries more weight when it's coming from the gods and not simply because it's best for us.

You can see this line of thinking exhibited in this forum by those who demand to know the source of your moral code, when what they are really saying is that if your moral code does not have the same source as mine then it must be inferior.

So, I suspect that a moral code originated in the need for people to cooperate to survive, was later attributed to the gods so that the gods could then hand it down to us with godly authority.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31024 Nov 12, 2013
Paul Broun has Embraced the Teachings of the Atheist Ayn Rand, and Rejected the Teachings of Jesus Christ, he is Definitely a No Vote...

Tea Party congressman Paul Broun: Ryan's budget 'fails' to ...
dailycaller.com/.../tea-party-congressman-pau... ...- Similar to Tea Party congressman Paul Broun: Ryan's budget 'fails' to ...
Mar 19, 2013 ... Republican Georgia Rep. Paul Broun, a member of the Tea Party caucus in the House, is arguing that Paul Ryan's budget “fails” to really cut ...
Broun Joins Tea Party Caucus - Congressman Paul Broun, MD
broun.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx... - Similar to Broun Joins Tea Party Caucus - Congressman Paul Broun, MD
Jul 20, 2010 ... U.S. Representative Paul Broun, M.D.(GA-10) today joined the newly created Tea Party Caucus:“Over the past 15 months, Americans across ...
guest

United States

#31025 Nov 12, 2013
Patriot wrote:
Contradiction indeed...
How is elitist Ayn Rand a tea party hero? The contradiction ...
www.csmonitor.com/.../How-is-elitist-Ayn-Rand... -...- Similar to How is elitist Ayn Rand a tea party hero? The contradiction ...
Oct 14, 2010 ... Tea partiers praise Ayn Rand's 'pure capitalism.' But they ignore her oligarchic, elitist views – ideals that are fundamentally antiAmerican and ...
They also ignore her disdain for the religious. She was an avowed atheist.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31027 Nov 12, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
They also ignore her disdain for the religious. She was an avowed atheist.
The Republican Tea Party Messiah, Ayn Rand ,who wrote the Republican Tea Party Bible, "Atlas Shrugged," hated all religion and Christianity in particular.

The Republican Tea Party Heroine said, "Christianity is a sign of weakness in a Capitalist Society."
guest

United States

#31030 Nov 12, 2013
now wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post,
but everything mentioned is relative to a God, whether before or after, i.e. The author has put "morally good" first before a God's acceptance as good morals.
This kinda brings up some of the questions I asked ugly eve, but will now get to the heart of the question. where do moral values come from?? Where they here with the beginning of mankind?? Are morals a learned trait?? or subject to the whim of man???
Serious questions that haven't been answered yet by libroids, and not even in this post. Most everyone with a little education of the ancient philosophers know they spent hours playing tag with which came first, "the chicken or the egg."
That answer has not been given, and neither does the answer in the quoted post answer such question.....
Does man make up his own morals??? if so, from what? how? why? when? where? and by who?
If man does NOT make up his own morals, then whence do they come from? From a God? From watching nature? From some entity we know nothing about??
Again, if morals came first, where did they come from? when? how? why? where?
And everything gets back to the atheist, JUST where do yall's morals come from?? and what are they??
First, don't assume that I'm an atheist just because I posted that particular article. It's a black and white assumption. How do you define "morals"?

Did you read the whole article or just the posted portion?

If you'r trying to get me to say that my morals derive in part from the Judeo/Christian society/culture that I grew up in then of course, but I would think that is obvious. That doesn't mean in any way that my morals are dependent on a belief in one God or another. I also think that there are certain (maybe more than a little bit) morals that are inherent in our DNA. We are social beings and as such have evolved/survived thus far because of our ability to get along with one another, generally speaking. That simply wouldn't be possible without a certain kind /amount of what we call "morals". Which brings me to a question. How do you define "morals"? Morals come from many different places IMO. It appears that you are still looking at things from a black and white perspective.

Do you consider atheists to be devoid of morals? Do you consider non-Christians (if that is your religion) to be lacking in certain morals or even devoid of them?

My contention is the same as that I posted already. One does not have to believe in a God or Gods to possess morals. I suspect that you and I possess some of the same morals.
guest

United States

#31031 Nov 12, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect that our moral grounding goes back 100's of thousands of years (millions) and is derived from the cooperation that was shown among the group, empathy for the feelings of others is the fertile ground for doin unto others. The group simply functions better when strife and discord is at a minimum. Cooperation among groups can have many desirable survival features, and it's easy to understand how the why of empathy, and the cooperation that springs from it, carries more weight when it's coming from the gods and not simply because it's best for us.
You can see this line of thinking exhibited in this forum by those who demand to know the source of your moral code, when what they are really saying is that if your moral code does not have the same source as mine then it must be inferior.
So, I suspect that a moral code originated in the need for people to cooperate to survive, was later attributed to the gods so that the gods could then hand it down to us with godly authority.
Well stated. Evolution. But then some of these folks don't think that evolution is a real phenomenon. I have very little patience with that.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#31032 Nov 12, 2013
ChicknButt wrote:
<quoted text>
That's number 13 on the list of things they ultimately want abolished.
http://politicsbyjustin.files.wordpress.com/2...
A stupid population is much easier to control and feed propaganda to than an educated one. Education isn't good for the Republicans. It costs them votes.
it's what we have now, bunch of libturd union member teachers messing with our kids. Have u looked at test scores lately?

Stupid teachers result in mostly stupid kids.
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#31036 Nov 12, 2013
Patriot wrote:
Paul Broun has Embraced the Teachings of the Atheist Ayn Rand, and Rejected the Teachings of Jesus Christ, he is Definitely a No Vote...

Tea Party congressman Paul Broun: Ryan's budget 'fails' to ...
dailycaller.com/.../tea-party-congressman-pau... ...- Similar to Tea Party congressman Paul Broun: Ryan's budget 'fails' to ...
Mar 19, 2013 ... Republican Georgia Rep. Paul Broun, a member of the Tea Party caucus in the House, is arguing that Paul Ryan's budget “fails” to really cut ...
Broun Joins Tea Party Caucus - Congressman Paul Broun, MD
broun.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx... - Similar to Broun Joins Tea Party Caucus - Congressman Paul Broun, MD
Jul 20, 2010 ... U.S. Representative Paul Broun, M.D.(GA-10) today joined the newly created Tea Party Caucus:“Over the past 15 months, Americans across ...
Now, now, Broun is the perfect Teapublican.

He's screwed his creditors with bankruptcy - so obviously he a financial expert.

He's been divorced three times - so obviously he's "family values" role model.

He claims the world is 6,000 years old and believes dale victims secrete super secret sperm killers when they're raped - so obviously he's an authority on science.

He's perfect.
guest

United States

#31037 Nov 12, 2013
bored monitor wrote:
<quoted text>
it's what we have now, bunch of libturd union member teachers messing with our kids. Have u looked at test scores lately?
Stupid teachers result in mostly stupid kids.
If you're suggesting that it's the fault of "public" education and that, like the Libertarians, the Dept. of Ed. be abolished then let me refer you to the most successful school systems on the planet ("public" systems):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best...

“The study notes that while funding is an important factor in strong education systems, cultures supportive of learning is even more critical -- as evidenced by the highly ranked Asian countries, where education is highly valued and parents have grand expectation. While Finland and South Korea differ greatly in methods of teaching and learning, they hold the top spots because of a shared social belief in the importance of education and its "underlying moral purpose." ”

http://www.ncee.org/programs-affiliates/cente...
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31038 Nov 12, 2013
David Koch pushed Abolishing Public Schools in 1980. The Koch Brothers Spent $200 to $300 Million Funding Tea Parties last year.

Libertarian | zFacts
zfacts.com/node/333 - Similar to Libertarian | zFacts
... and David Koch ran as the vice presidential candidate against Reagan in 1980 . Libertarian positions at the time included: Abolish public schools, welfare and ...

Political activities of the Koch brothers - Wikipedia, the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of... - Similar to Political activities of the Koch brothers - Wikipedia, the ...
David H. Koch was a Libertarian Vice-Presidential candidate in 1980. He advocated the abolition of Social Security, the FBI, the CIA, and public schools. Koch put ..... for Prosperity and Generation Opportunity ran more than $3 million worth of ...

David H. Koch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch - Similar to David H. Koch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Opponent(s), Ran on Libertarian ticket for Vice President in 1980 election against ... He attended the Deerfield Academy prep school in Massachusetts, graduating in 1959.... The Clark–Koch ticket promising to abolish Social Security, the Federal ... educational institutions, arts, cultural institutions, and public policy studies.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31039 Nov 12, 2013
The John Birch Society's Founding Member Fred Koch, the Father of the Koch Brothers, and the John Birch Society continues to push for Abolishing Public Schools.
The John Birchers have joined the Republican Tea Party in droves, many hold dual memberships in the JBS and the T.P.
They are the most vicious in these forums.

Tea Party Bloodlines: The Rebirth of the John Birch Society -...
www.examiner.com/.../tea-party-bloodlines-the... - so...
Aug 13, 2013 ... In order for the average 21st century John Birch Society member to blend in ... from David and Charles Koch, the Koch-Murdoch collaboration is an ... He also campaigned on abolishing the F.B.I., the C.I.A., and public schools.
[PDF]

Oil Money Refined Into Stealth Politics
mckpr.com/.../Koch%20Bros%20Background - Oil%20Money%20Refined%20Into%2 0Stealth%2...
Fred Koch founded a successful oil and gasoline business and then poured some of ... in 1967, but the Birchers are still espousing their ultraconservative,... has pushed private school vouchers and charter schools that undermine public education ... founded in 1993 with Koch foundation money, favors abolishing affirmative ...
ChicknButt

Norcross, GA

#31040 Nov 12, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, now, Broun is the perfect Teapublican.
He's screwed his creditors with bankruptcy - so obviously he a financial expert.
He's been divorced three times - so obviously he's "family values" role model.
He claims the world is 6,000 years old and believes dale victims secrete super secret sperm killers when they're raped - so obviously he's an authority on science.
He's perfect.
Don't forget - he refuses to indicate where his campaign financing is coming from and he's been named as one of the most corrupt politicians in Washington.

Also, Bill Nye the Science Guy went out of his way to say that Broun isn't even remotely qualified to do his job on the Science, Space and Technology Committee!

"Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest," Nye told The Huffington Post in an email. "For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old," he continued, contradicting a remark made by Broun later in the video. "He is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."
ChicknButt

Norcross, GA

#31041 Nov 12, 2013
Patriot wrote:
David Koch pushed Abolishing Public Schools in 1980. The Koch Brothers Spent $200 to $300 Million Funding Tea Parties last year.
Libertarian | zFacts
zfacts.com/node/333 - Similar to Libertarian | zFacts
... and David Koch ran as the vice presidential candidate against Reagan in 1980 . Libertarian positions at the time included: Abolish public schools, welfare and ...
Political activities of the Koch brothers - Wikipedia, the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of... - Similar to Political activities of the Koch brothers - Wikipedia, the ...
David H. Koch was a Libertarian Vice-Presidential candidate in 1980. He advocated the abolition of Social Security, the FBI, the CIA, and public schools. Koch put ..... for Prosperity and Generation Opportunity ran more than $3 million worth of ...
David H. Koch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch - Similar to David H. Koch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Opponent(s), Ran on Libertarian ticket for Vice President in 1980 election against ... He attended the Deerfield Academy prep school in Massachusetts, graduating in 1959.... The Clark–Koch ticket promising to abolish Social Security, the Federal ... educational institutions, arts, cultural institutions, and public policy studies.
Now we're getting somewhere! Not that any of these RWW's will have a light-bulb pop up over there head, even in the face of overwhelming evidence of how they're being manipulated by Big Energy.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31042 Nov 12, 2013
Fred Koch and the JBS

Fred Koch - The John Birch Society
www.jbs.org/fred-koch - Similar to Fred Koch - The John Birch Society
Born in 1900 the son of a Dutch immigrant from Quanah, Texas, Fred Koch graduated from MIT in 1922 with a chemical engineering degree. He was first ...

John Birch Society Celebrates Koch Family For Their Role In ...
thinkprogress.org/politics/.../john-birch-soc... ...- Similar to John Birch Society Celebrates Koch Family For Their Role In ...
Jun 10, 2011 ... Fred not only founded the company now known as Koch Industries, he also was a founding member of the John Birch Society. As a founding ...

These are the Republican Tea Party NitWits who run around calling people "Commies" in these Forums.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31043 Nov 12, 2013
The Radical Koch Brothers got their hatred of Public Schools from their Father Fred Koch.
The John Birch Society was first formed with eleven members, one of whom was Fred Koch. Each one of them put in one million dollars.

Fred Koch - The John Birch Society
www.jbs.org/fred-koch - Similar to Fred Koch - The John Birch Society
Born in 1900 the son of a Dutch immigrant from Quanah, Texas, Fred Koch graduated from MIT in 1922 with a chemical engineering degree. He was first ...

John Birch Society Celebrates Koch Family For Their Role In ...
thinkprogress.org/politics/.../john-birch-soc... ...- Similar to John Birch Society Celebrates Koch Family For Their Role In ...
Jun 10, 2011 ... Fred not only founded the company now known as Koch Industries, he also was a founding member of the John Birch Society. As a founding ...
now

Hiawassee, GA

#31044 Nov 12, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect that our moral grounding goes back 100's of thousands of years (millions) and is derived from the cooperation that was shown among the group, empathy for the feelings of others is the fertile ground for doin unto others. The group simply functions better when strife and discord is at a minimum. Cooperation among groups can have many desirable survival features, and it's easy to understand how the why of empathy, and the cooperation that springs from it, carries more weight when it's coming from the gods and not simply because it's best for us.
You can see this line of thinking exhibited in this forum by those who demand to know the source of your moral code, when what they are really saying is that if your moral code does not have the same source as mine then it must be inferior.
So, I suspect that a moral code originated in the need for people to cooperate to survive, was later attributed to the gods so that the gods could then hand it down to us with godly authority.

Of course if you had been with the cavemen of 100,000 years ago, I suspect you would have been clubbed repeatedly, but this is only an assumption on my part.

And some can suspect you are wrong again as usual; a palatable answer may be pleasant to the psych as food is to the stomach. But wrong food can make you upchuck (like you do on topix), and wrong assumptions can make you an idiot (like here on topix.)

I can assume anything to placate my mind, live under fairy dust to soothe the spirit, etc., but none of these things make it so.

Now if only you could have stood along the sides of Plato and Socrates you could have straighten them out and we wouldn't have these questions today.
Again for the atheists, whence forth doth thy morals come from, and what are they??
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31045 Nov 12, 2013
If this link won't come up then type in your search block ~> the billionaires bankrolling the Tea Party~> and click search

The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.htm... - Similar to The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party - The New York Times
Aug 28, 2010 ... The Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch have self-interested agendas that go well beyond the interests of those who carry their banners.
Brendan DeMelle: Study Confirms Tea Party Was Created by Big ...

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../study-confirms-tea... ....- Similar to Brendan DeMelle: Study Confirms Tea Party Was Created by Big ...
Feb 11, 2013... and the billionaire Koch brothers planned the formation of the Tea Party ... The study, funded by the National Cancer Institute of the National ...

The Tea Party movement: deluded and inspired by billionaires ...
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/.../tea-par... - Similar to The Tea Party movement: deluded and inspired by billionaires ...
Oct 25, 2010 ... The Tea Party movement is remarkable in two respects. It is one ... of concerned citizens, but in reality it is founded and funded by elite interests.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31046 Nov 12, 2013
Kochtopus Tea Party

Koch family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_family - Similar to Koch family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Koch family (/&#712;ko&#650;k/ KOKE) of industrialists and businessmen is most notable .... "Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity", U.S. News ...

Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity
electionlawblog.org/archives/018683.html
Feb 3, 2011 ... "Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity". Peter Fenn blogs at US News. Posted by Rick Hasen at February 3, 2011 08:19 ...

What does the Tea Party want? Koch Brothers | GravitySailor
gravitysailor.com/government-politics/tea-par...
Feb 10, 2013 ... http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Peter-Fen... - koch-brothers-emerge-from-anon ymity.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#31047 Nov 12, 2013
ChicknButt wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget - he refuses to indicate where his campaign financing is coming from and he's been named as one of the most corrupt politicians in Washington.
Also, Bill Nye the Science Guy went out of his way to say that Broun isn't even remotely qualified to do his job on the Science, Space and Technology Committee!
"Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest," Nye told The Huffington Post in an email. "For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old," he continued, contradicting a remark made by Broun later in the video. "He is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."
All you have to do is type in the name of your local Tea Party HotDog-then dash or comma- and Koch Brothers....... and you will see where they get their money$$$$ Lots of Money$$$$

First Slice 9/20/13: Watchdog group names US Rep. Paul Broun ...
clatl.com/.../first-slice-92013-watchdog-grou... ...
Sep 20, 2013 ... Paul Broun one of the 'most corrupt members of Congress'... with $5.04 million from a fund controlled by the Koch brothers' lobbying team.

The latest ORBAR (Offensive Remark By A Republican)| NBC News
www.nbcnews.com/id/.../t/latest-orbar-offensi...
Feb 5, 2013 ... Then there's Paul Broun, the guy behind the idea that evolution and the ... americans for prosperity backed by the koch brothers held what they ...

Koch Brothers | Duel Personalities
duelpersonalities.com/...
Posts filed under Koch Brothers. October 16, 2013. Government Shutdown Part Five: The Nuclear Option. In my final piece on the shutdown, I want to discuss the ...
ChicknButt

Norcross, GA

#31048 Nov 12, 2013
Fred Koch - John Birch Society, and all that it entails.

Charles and David Koch = Koch Industries = Big Coal=Big Polution

Charles and David Koch = Libertarian Party and their Principles http://politicsbyjustin.files.wordpress.com/2... which happen to be good for Big Coal and nobody else in the world.

Libertarian Party/Kochs = Americans for Prosperity
= Freedom Works
= Cato Institute

Americans for Prosperity/FreedomWorks/Cato = untold numbers of propaganda papers , including leading the climate-change deniers.

Tea Party was initially funded by Koch Backed Organizations.

Tea Party candidates are elected on Koch backed organizations donations.

The Republicans (Tea Party)- literally paused to get instructions from the Koch Brothers during the height of the fiscal-cliff issues recently.
----------

And that's just the VERY short crib-notes version of what's going on.

There is direct lineage from Fred Koch and the John Birch Society to what the Tea Party and the Libertarians are doing today, with this agenda in mind:

http://politicsbyjustin.files.wordpress.com/2...

Right-wing-radicals - shout about freedom all you want. You're doing it because Charles and David told you to, and you don't even realize how that came to happen.

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