Informed Opinion

Fort Myers, FL

#23294 Aug 25, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
Looks as if the United States is going to get involved in another useless war.
Our country is broke. Our Armed Forces are being cut and do not have enough funding to be be actually ready for war.
Our military personal and their equipment is tired and wore out.
American families are sick and tired of their loved ones being killed for nothing on a continent that most of the inhabitants hate us.
The Russians have a huge interest in Syria as well as Iran and will not take kindly to U.S. involvement.
One miscalculation and the whole thing may turn into World War III.
I just see no American interest involved especially after this Administration has had nothing but utter failures and lack of any type of leadership in the Mideast. Why now?
Just my personal feelings on this subject.
War isn't like the movies portray it, it is true hell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mid...
Good post, though after the debacle in Iraq, nothing Obama can do can be more egregious.

Stay the hell out of Syria - another thing Right Wingers and Left Wingers and Moderates can agree on.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#23295 Aug 25, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Really ?
I agree the government should fight forest fires in Idaho, i acknowledge that socialism is a natural part of our economic system, and it has to be.
I use the example to show how all this talk of "Socialism" is nonsensical claptrap, and that we are all "Socialists" to some extent, so it's ridiculous for one Socialist to accuse another person of being Socialist.
When the government reaches into my pocket, removes my money, and uses it protect the house of a guy in Idaho named "Bob", by definition, that is Socialism and Redistribution.
I can't keep my money because "Bob's" house, a continent away, might burn down ?
Why is that my problem ?
I didn't tell him to build his house in a forest.
I didn't tell him not to hire fire fighters to protect his house.
Why should i pay more in taxes so Bob can save money on his fire insurance ?
What's it my problem if his house burns to the ground ?
Capitalism says it's his choice to build a house in the forest that might burn, and the risk is all his, the problem with fire protection in the forest is all his, none of it's my problem.
Socialism says that since Bob probably can't afford to maintain his own fire protection,
Bob can't afford to buy insurance without fire protection being provided,
and,
as a society we don't want Bob and his family homeless,
the government will take my money from my pocket, by force,
and use my money to subsidize Bob's insurance, and protect Bob's house,
for Bob's benefit, and the benefit of society.
That my friend is the absolute opposite of Capitalism and is pure Socialism.
I'm just waiting for all these Right Wingers so upset about the deficit, the debt, and socialism to be intellectually consistent and tell Bob to pound sand and die - Bob made a bad decision and capitalism says "Too bad - So sad".
Holly moley man, what is wrong with your thought process? It is the governments main job for national defense to protect this country and its citizens. Our country is being destroyed by fire and the damage could be thee same as if we were fire bombed. Our valuable forest , homes, will be lost. Perhaps a large city if such a raging fire can not be stopped. Many people may die. It could cost this country billions of dollars. It has nothing to do with socialism. It has to do with the government acting on it's responsibilities.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#23296 Aug 25, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
I expected more from you.
My mistake.
My ideas and philosophy are consistent.
It's Right Wing Wackos that say spending Billions of Dollars to provide federal fire protection for millionaires in Idaho is not socialism, but providing good to a three month old baby is.
It's Right Wing Wackos who say the deficit and debt are bed things, then support Right Wingers who explode the deficit and triple the debt, and attack Democrats who balance the budget and cut Right Wing deficits in half.
It's Right Wing Wackos who claim they want limited government out of our lives, but support the he government wiretapping, eavesdropping, kidnapping, torturing, and assassinating Americans, peeking in our bedrooms to regulate who sleeps with who, and in our daughters' uteruses to control their very bodies.
It's Right Wingers who support Bush the Beloved and hate Obama, even though their policies are practically clones
Nope.,. That Cognitive Dissonance has got you down... and no wonder.
Why would you think that I would suddenly change my philosophy? I have posted long enough for anybody to be very clear on most of my views and how I think.
I am not a liberal most of the time and then suddenly post reasonable conservative thoughts.
I don't support guys running around naked in the girls locker rooms.
I don't support the Democratic Party and what it stands for.
About once every 4 months we agree on something and I am fair minded enough to tell you so.
I see this left wing Democratic controlled administration lying to us and promoting wire taps and data collection by the NSA.
I see them trying to start new conflicts in the world where we have no business or interest.
I see them in charge of the drones, military operations, spying, and almost everything that you mentioned in your complaints, not Right Wingers. I never said I was happy with all that either. However I am for protection of children from sexual predators and women from rape and abuse.
I have come to the point that I don't know which people you are talking about. Who are the Right Wingers? Are all conservative Right Wingers to you? Is it only Republicans that you consider Right Wingers? Is it just people that disagree with your views that are Right Wingers?
I assume that you think I am a Right Winger. Guess what? I am not a Republican.
Frankly most everything that you mentioned your dislike for is being controlled by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate, and a Democratic Administration.
I consider them Left Wingers. Am I wrong?
dont it

Dahlonega, GA

#23297 Aug 25, 2013
How wrote:
But wait!! Hold the horses!! Hold the presses!!
Gag the Gores of the world!!!
"Arctic Ice gain sets a new record"
"With a few weeks of growth still to occur, the Arctic has blown away the previous record for ice gain this winter. This is only the third winter in history when more than 10 million km² of new ice has formed."
Everyone forgets the artic hurricane that broke us a huge portion of the ice and caused the icebergs to float away and melt.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/12/sea-ice...
When the news catches up with the flaky scientist, they will say something like "the desert drought caused the hurricane, that broke up the ice, that raised the sea 1/2", that caused Gore to have a hissy fit, and blame everyone for his failure to communicate the seriousness of his carbon credits taking a hit in his portfolio."
Its the long term trends they look at, science just baffles the hell out of you don't it?
Informed Opinion

Fort Myers, FL

#23298 Aug 25, 2013
OMTE wrote:
Very interesting article.
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/now-egypt-looks-to...
Impeach Obama Today.
World Nut Daily
Informed Opinion

Fort Myers, FL

#23299 Aug 25, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>Holly moley man, what is wrong with your thought process? It is the governments main job for national defense to protect this country and its citizens. Our country is being destroyed by fire and the damage could be thee same as if we were fire bombed. Our valuable forest , homes, will be lost. Perhaps a large city if such a raging fire can not be stopped. Many people may die. It could cost this country billions of dollars. It has nothing to do with socialism. It has to do with the government acting on it's responsibilities.
"Attacked ?"

Nobody "attacked" Idaho.
Nobody "attacked" Colorado.

People built houses in forests that occasionally burn, and shockingly the forests occasionally burn, and the government takes my money to subsidize their choices, instead of allowing Capitalism to work, making them responsible for their decisions.

The government takes money out of my pocket to subsidize Arnold Schwartzenegger's million dollar cabin, and thousands of others, built in fire probe forests, a continent away.

The government makes me subsidize the developers who sell and build them, the people who buy them, and the insurers who insure them.

It's pure unadulterated socialism.

That's OK with me.

I like a little socialism mixed in with capitalism - and so do you - you just want to pretend those programs you like aren't socialism.

That's like explaining to your kids that whisky you drink with your Uncle Ed is "medicine."

Right Wingers who claim to be so concerned about socialistic federal government programs redistributing wealth, and making taxpayers subsidize those who won't take care of their own problems, like to pretend it isn't socialism when the main beneficiaries are affluent white people.

Remember all the comments about helping people in New Orleans - Right Wingers screamed the people who built or lived there were "stupid" - they built in flood zones in a state that gets hit by hurricanes. Right Wingers screamed that the help given New Orleans was Socialism,(except to the Right Wingers who lived there.)

So tell me again why it's not Socialism to take money out of my pocket to subsidize people a continent away who want to live in forests that burn,
but,
it is Socialism to help feed a 6 month old baby in urban Atlanta.
OMTE

Hahira, GA

#23300 Aug 25, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
World Nut Daily
You must be talkin bout Obama? ;)
http://formerwhitehat.files.wordpress.com/201...
I think you're one of these nuts.:(
http://rlv.zcache.com/acorn_is_evil_nuts_for_...
Informed Opinion

Fort Myers, FL

#23301 Aug 25, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>Why would you think that I Administration.
I consider them Left Wingers. Am I wrong?
Great post.

Please consider the response as a serious.

"I don't support guys running around naked in the girls locker rooms."

Who does ? Really ?
Even you can't seriously accuse anyone who posts here of supporting that.

I don't support the Democratic Party and what it stands for.

That's fine - there's lots to
disagree with both Repubs and Demos.

"I see this left wing Democratic controlled administration lying to us and promoting wire taps and data collection by the NSA."

Wait.. Right Wing Republicans Bush and Cheney initiated all this- Right Wing Obama is simply continuing the policies.

So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.

"I see them trying to start new conflicts in the world where we have no business or interest."

Wait... Right Wing Bush started one war killing 5,000 American troops and costing $6,000,000,000,000.00, and invaded and occupied two others. Obama has started no wars, is bringing home troops and otherwise continuing Bush's policies.

So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.

" I see them in charge of the drones, military operations, spying, and almost everything that you mentioned in your complaints, not Right Wingers."

Every one of these is a program initiated by Right Wing Bush and continued by Obama - so why is Bush "Right" and Obama "Left" ?

"However I am for protection of children from sexual predators and women from rape and abuse."

"That's like saying you like Mom amd apple pie. Who is in favor of sexual predators ?- and please - don't say "Liberals" - even you can't believe that.

Frankly most everything that you mentioned your dislike for is being controlled by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate, and a Democratic Administration.
I consider them Left Wingers. Am I wrong?

Extraordinarily wrong.

There is simply not a single major policy on which Obama differs from Bush, and that's because they are both Right Wingers.

Since they are clones on all major policies - why is one "Right" and one "Left" ?
How

Blairsville, GA

#23302 Aug 25, 2013
dont it wrote:
<quoted text>
Its the long term trends they look at, science just baffles the hell out of you don't it?

So u r a scientist now.....?
ROFL

7782
How

Blairsville, GA

#23303 Aug 25, 2013
OMTE wrote:
<quoted text>You must be talkin bout Obama? ;)
http://formerwhitehat.files.wordpress.com/201...
I think you're one of these nuts.:(
http://rlv.zcache.com/acorn_is_evil_nuts_for_...

Agree.
How

Blairsville, GA

#23304 Aug 25, 2013
The longer the posts, the less I read the garbage.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#23306 Aug 25, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post.
Please consider the response as a serious.
"I don't support guys running around naked in the girls locker rooms."
Who does ? Really ?
Even you can't seriously accuse anyone who posts here of supporting that.
I don't support the Democratic Party and what it stands for.
That's fine - there's lots to
disagree with both Repubs and Demos.
"I see this left wing Democratic controlled administration lying to us and promoting wire taps and data collection by the NSA."
Wait.. Right Wing Republicans Bush and Cheney initiated all this- Right Wing Obama is simply continuing the policies.
So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.
"I see them trying to start new conflicts in the world where we have no business or interest."
Wait... Right Wing Bush started one war killing 5,000 American troops and costing $6,000,000,000,000.00, and invaded and occupied two others. Obama has started no wars, is bringing home troops and otherwise continuing Bush's policies.
So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.
" I see them in charge of the drones, military operations, spying, and almost everything that you mentioned in your complaints, not Right Wingers."
Every one of these is a program initiated by Right Wing Bush and continued by Obama - so why is Bush "Right" and Obama "Left" ?
"However I am for protection of children from sexual predators and women from rape and abuse."
"That's like saying you like Mom amd apple pie. Who is in favor of sexual predators ?- and please - don't say "Liberals" - even you can't believe that.
Frankly most everything that you mentioned your dislike for is being controlled by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate, and a Democratic Administration.
I consider them Left Wingers. Am I wrong?
Extraordinarily wrong.
There is simply not a single major policy on which Obama differs from Bush, and that's because they are both Right Wingers.
Since they are clones on all major policies - why is one "Right" and one "Left" ?
Did I ever insinuate that there was a major difference in their major policies?
Obama has just carried everything to a super new level. He just increased the intensity of Big government and government control over the people, business's, healthcare system, immigration, and a huge increase in America's financial debt.
Answer this question.
Is Fascism, Socialism, or Communism considered by you to be left wing?
What is right wing and what do you consider to be left wing?

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#23307 Aug 25, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post.
Please consider the response as a serious.
"I don't support guys running around naked in the girls locker rooms."
Who does ? Really ?
Even you can't seriously accuse anyone who posts here of supporting that.
I don't support the Democratic Party and what it stands for.
That's fine - there's lots to
disagree with both Repubs and Demos.
"I see this left wing Democratic controlled administration lying to us and promoting wire taps and data collection by the NSA."
Wait.. Right Wing Republicans Bush and Cheney initiated all this- Right Wing Obama is simply continuing the policies.
So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.
"I see them trying to start new conflicts in the world where we have no business or interest."
Wait... Right Wing Bush started one war killing 5,000 American troops and costing $6,000,000,000,000.00, and invaded and occupied two others. Obama has started no wars, is bringing home troops and otherwise continuing Bush's policies.
So why no outrage when Right Wing Bush started all this insanity, but outrage at Obama - they are clones.
" I see them in charge of the drones, military operations, spying, and almost everything that you mentioned in your complaints, not Right Wingers."
Every one of these is a program initiated by Right Wing Bush and continued by Obama - so why is Bush "Right" and Obama "Left" ?
"However I am for protection of children from sexual predators and women from rape and abuse."
"That's like saying you like Mom amd apple pie. Who is in favor of sexual predators ?- and please - don't say "Liberals" - even you can't believe that.
Frankly most everything that you mentioned your dislike for is being controlled by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate, and a Democratic Administration.
I consider them Left Wingers. Am I wrong?
Extraordinarily wrong.
There is simply not a single major policy on which Obama differs from Bush, and that's because they are both Right Wingers.
Since they are clones on all major policies - why is one "Right" and one "Left" ?
Lets be honest and face the truth. Many Republicans , Independents, and others, were fooled and were sorry that they voted for Bush the second time. If they had known how he was to govern he might not have been reelected. Not that they would have voted for the Democratic Candidate John Kerry. They just simply would have not voted. Not all Republicans thought that he was great. Hindsight is 20/20.
Get over it. That was in the past and that can't be undone. We live in today and must look towards the future and hopefully learn from the past. Some things can't ever be undone.
Informed Opinion

Fort Myers, FL

#23308 Aug 25, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>Lets be honest and face the truth. Many Republicans , Independents, and others, were fooled and were sorry that they voted for Bush the second time. If they had known how he was to govern he might not have been reelected. Not that they would have voted for the Democratic Candidate John Kerry. They just simply would have not voted. Not all Republicans thought that he was great. Hindsight is 20/20.
Get over it. That was in the past and that can't be undone. We live in today and must look towards the future and hopefully learn from the past. Some things can't ever be undone.
Great post. Lots of truth there.

I just wish we had a real choice in politicians and policies.

I'd really like the chance to vote for a real moderate, like Eisenhower; or a true Progressive; like Teddy Roosevelt, or a true liberal, like Russ Feingold.

It is just too dangerous to allow those with money and power to keep limiting our choices between the extreme Right Wing and the Right Wing.

The constant movement to the Right is gradually destroying democracy and the Middle Class.

But hey... It's good for me personally. My friends and my taxes keep getting cut, my investments are doing well, and business has never been better. Too bad that comes at great costs to others.
OMTE

Hahira, GA

#23309 Aug 25, 2013
Very interesting article.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/08/p...
Impeach Obama Today.
Correction

Blairsville, GA

#23310 Aug 26, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
"Cupcake" ?
How long did you sit in that 26 year old lazy-boy you found abandoned next door after the neighbors lost the house to foreclosure, scratching your size 52 belly, drinking semi-warm PBR beer, watching reruns of "HeeHaw", and arguing with your common-law wife about Juniors most recent expulsion from school for selling meth to the other kids in grade school, before you can up with "Cupcake" ?
But, to the point.
The author of the quite paraphrased immediately prior to the statement to which you object, also believed that the Church failed to sufficiently object to the growing power of the Nazi Party.
Now maybe you were there, and maybe he wasn't paying attention, or maybe people can disagree about it, but I tend to take the authors representations as more credible than yours. Go figure.
As to trying to accuse progressives and liberals,
who fight continuously to protect our freedom from government intrusion and control,
with being at all similar to the Right Wing Wacko Christian Taliban,
that demands the government creep into people's beds to see who they sleep with; crawl into women's uteruses, to control what they do with their own bodies; wiretap, eavesdrop, assassinate and torture Americans, to keep the continuously scared sh.tless Right Wingers safe from the terrorists hiding in their wife's underwear drawer;
is typical Right Wing Lunacy.
Hey... Can't keep you. Roy is about to say: "HeeeeeeeeewwHaaaaaaaw ", and I wouldn't want you to miss it.
"Cupcake" ?
"Really" ?
Yup, cup-cake.
You are a light weight pseudo-intellectual who twists the truth for convenience.
The information I presented is from Eric Metaxas. Perhaps you've heard of his work, much of which is presented from actual documents preserved for such a time as this.
You definition of progressives and liberals is laughable. I would direct anyone seeking truth to check out the Fabian groups that appeared in Europe and have had a massive impact on American liberals and their collective death wish.
How

Blairsville, GA

#23311 Aug 26, 2013
Decisions make a difference......
When a country makes a decision, it is now local...
When several countries make a decision it comes under the auspices of the UN.

World gubmints rule over single gubmints, designed by agreement as participants and supporters of the UN.

Their claim is "instead of hundreds of thousands of death, we can limit it to hundreds upon hundreds of death."

How else can the U.S. play the role as cowboy to the indians of the world.

"Navy ready to launch first strike on Syria"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mid...


How

Blairsville, GA

#23312 Aug 26, 2013
Correction wrote:
<quoted text>Yup, cup-cake.
You are a light weight pseudo-intellectual who twists the truth for convenience.
The information I presented is from Eric Metaxas. Perhaps you've heard of his work, much of which is presented from actual documents preserved for such a time as this.
You definition of progressives and liberals is laughable. I would direct anyone seeking truth to check out the Fabian groups that appeared in Europe and have had a massive impact on American liberals and their collective death wish.

Well now Metaxas has a sense of humor and is a funny man. IO is the opposite and the twix dont meet.

And this is an example of the Fabians handi-work.........

"In the early 1900s Fabian Society members advocated the ideal of a scientifically planned society and supported eugenics by way of sterilization. This is said to have influenced the passage of the Half-Caste Act, and its subsequent implementation in Australia, where children were systematically and forcibly removed from their parents, so that the British colonial regime could "protect" the Aborigine children from their parents.

In an article published in The Guardian on 14 February 2008 (following the apology offered by Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to the "stolen generations"), Geoffrey Robertson criticised Fabian socialists for providing the intellectual justification for the eugenics policy that led to the stolen generations scandal. Such views on socialism, inequality and eugenics in early 20th century Fabians were not limited to one individual, but were widely shared in Fabian Society."

Yep, sounds like something IO would be involved in.

Informed Opinion

United States

#23313 Aug 26, 2013
Correction wrote:
<quoted text>Yup, cup-cake.
You are a light weight pseudo-intellectual who twists the truth for convenience.
The information I presented is from Eric Metaxas. Perhaps you've heard of his work, much of which is presented from actual documents preserved for such a time as this.
You definition of progressives and liberals is laughable. I would direct anyone seeking truth to check out the Fabian groups that appeared in Europe and have had a massive impact on American liberals and their collective death wish.
Well Bubba

Perhaps they didn't have dictionaries from Earth at the Right Wing Wacko Planet's Bible Class and Firearms Training Summer Camps you attended where you were taught that calling someone "cupcake",(by the way, there is no hyphen in cupcake), would make you sound all mean and tough, rather than just uneducated and insecure, so please allow me to educate you.

Liberal:
Pronunciation:\ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
: a person who is liberal: as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of , traditional, or established forms or ways, c : an advocate or adherent of especially in individual rights

Let's see "open minded"; advocate of individual rights.

That perfectly describes the Revolutionary Founding Fathers; Gandhi; Mother Theresa; and the biggest "bleeding heart" Liberal of all, Jesus Christ; spot on.

How proud you must be to attack their beliefs of those "Libtards."

Progressive:
Function: noun
1 a : one that is progressive b : one believing in moderate political change and especially social improvement by governmental action

Let's see:
"moderately improving" through "governmental action"

That perfectly describes Clara Barton, Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Bush the First.
Now there's a bunch of crazed Socialist Commies (on Right Wing Wacko Planet).

You Right Wing Wackos are so far past Fascism to you everyone not wearing their Brown Shirts, snitching on their neighbor, and making lists of which minorities will be loaded on the next train for the "Camps", is a bleeding heart "Liberal" who poses a danger to the "Homeland". Just like that Libtard, Jesus.

Which is especially ironic as nobody has their lips more firmly attached to the government teat than a Right Wing Wacko, and they are the greatest danger democracy faces today. Bubba
Informed Opinion

United States

#23314 Aug 26, 2013
How wrote:
<quoted text>Well now Metaxas has a sense of humor and is a funny man. IO is the opposite and the twix dont meet.

And this is an example of the Fabians handi-work.........

"In the early 1900s Fabian Society members advocated the ideal of a scientifically planned society and supported eugenics by way of sterilization. This is said to have influenced the passage of the Half-Caste Act, and its subsequent implementation in Australia, where children were systematically and forcibly removed from their parents, so that the British colonial regime could "protect" the Aborigine children from their parents.

In an article published in The Guardian on 14 February 2008 (following the apology offered by Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to the "stolen generations"), Geoffrey Robertson criticised Fabian socialists for providing the intellectual justification for the eugenics policy that led to the stolen generations scandal. Such views on socialism, inequality and eugenics in early 20th century Fabians were not limited to one individual, but were widely shared in Fabian Society."

Yep, sounds like something IO would be involved in.
Absolutely correct that we all have less tolerant days than others.

To pretend millions of "Christians" made a valiant, brave, and desperate stand is simply inaccurate. Just as to pretend the "Confessing Church portion of the Protestant Church was primarily about fighting Nazis, which it wasn't.

PROTESTANT CHURCHES IN NAZI GERMANY

The largest Protestant church in Germany in the 1930s was the German Evangelical Church. Most of Germany's 40 million Protestants were members of this church, although there were smaller so-called "free" Protestant churches, such as Methodist and Baptist churches.
During the 1920s, a movement emerged within the German Evangelical Church called the Deutsche Christen, or "German Christians." The "German Christians" embraced many of the nationalistic and racial aspects of Nazi ideology.
... Once the Nazis came to power, this group sought the creation of a national "Reich Church" and supported a "nazified" version of Christianity.
... The Bekennende Kirche—the "Confessing Church"—emerged in opposition to the “German Christians."
... Both the Confessing Church and the "German Christians" remained part of the German Evangelical Church, and the result was a Kirchenkampf, or "church struggle" within German Protestantism.
... The most famous members of the Confessing Church were the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, executed for his role in the conspiracy to overthrow the regime, and Pastor Martin Niemöller, who spent seven years in concentration camps for his criticisms of Hitler.

Hey.. Wasn't it Niemoller I quoted who denounced the Church for not fighting hard enough against the Nazis ?

Yea, that's the ticket.

(But what would the Minister in the Confessing Church sent to the Concentration Camp for criticizing Hitler know about the Church's failure to criticize Hitler ?) Probably more than any other human being.

... Yet these clergymen were not typical of the Confessing Church; despite their examples, the Protestant Kirchenkampf was mostly an internal church matter, not a fight against National Socialism.

... Even in the Confessing Church, most church leaders were primarily concerned with blocking state and ideological interference in church affairs.

Don't worry .... Proving that everything I post is true, documented, and beyond rational attack, is simply not that hard.

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