Part 12 Guy Heinze Jr.
Caring

Albany, GA

#973 Oct 22, 2013
Perhaps this will refresh recollections that seem to be confused.

'in the car Heinze was driving police found Michelle Toler's cell phone with the blood of Chrissy Toler's slain boyfriend, Joseph West, on it, Darris testified.'

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-10-18...

And it is not the smear found on the tan shorts that is the problem for this defendant. It is the blood spatters found on the lighter gray side of his gym type underwear and on his sandals.

Smears are transfers and easy to define since they are smudges. Blood spatter is an entirely different matter telling a much different story because it takes velocity to create blood spatters. To get blood spatter on something or someone else the blood of the victims are airborne and landing on what is closest to them at the time they are being murdered or gravely injured.
ssi local

Saint Simons Island, GA

#974 Oct 22, 2013
hello caring, what are your thoughts with today's so far? I hope the prosecution can put some holes in the defense witness talking about the crime scene. but with that being said I don't understand why the glynn county police didn't even call on the Federal Law enforcement agency located only a few miles from the crime scene. they train the FBI, CIA and secret service from all over the country!! this was a big crime scene and I don't care how long you have been an investigator, in a small town like this you are not quipped to handle it. I just hope their mistakes didn't cost the trial:(
bleeding heart not

Marion, IL

#975 Oct 22, 2013
The investigation was not botched as you say, I find him guilty and since I know this family and have had sr at my house and have fed him at my table I have an insight that you don't f int have.
Caring

Albany, GA

#976 Oct 22, 2013
ssi local wrote:
hello caring, what are your thoughts with today's so far? I hope the prosecution can put some holes in the defense witness talking about the crime scene. but with that being said I don't understand why the glynn county police didn't even call on the Federal Law enforcement agency located only a few miles from the crime scene. they train the FBI, CIA and secret service from all over the country!! this was a big crime scene and I don't care how long you have been an investigator, in a small town like this you are not quipped to handle it. I just hope their mistakes didn't cost the trial:(
Hello, its nice to see a new poster on this case.:)

I think today has gone very well for the defense as it should since it is their CIC. But testimony is only good if it holds up under cross examination. I do find Mr. Knox's opinions somewhat presumptuous. How does he know there were two attackers in the room simply because there are four places where Mr. Toler Sr. bled? Sr. could have easily jumped off the bed on one side and ran around to the other side trying to put distance between him and his sole killer. I think the expert will be called on that assumption. Michael could have been attacked first and we know he was in no condition to help anyone and lay dying on the bed. Another assumption he is making is GHjr did not clean himself up before leaving even though droplets of blood were found in the bathroom. Its logical he cleaned himself up and reversed his underwear to the black side where the blood spatter wouldn't show.

I don't fault them for not calling in the FBI. They did have the GBI do all the autopsies and all the forensic lab results. The GBI is an accredited lab just like the FBI. So it isn't like the local police tested all of this evidence themselves but sought assistance from an outside agency.

The truth is they did collect over 400 pieces of evidence and what the defense doesn't want the jury to know is the defense could have tested any piece they wanted and the Judge would have granted it. So if they are really so sure someone else was involved they would have tested pieces of evidence that LE did not test looking for that evidence. They didn't because if it showed more evidence against Guy Jr they would have to turn that over in discovery to the state.

We have to remember that GHjr was willing to stay in jail for over four years when he had a constitutional right to a speedy trial. He waived that constitutional right. What truly innocent man would be willing to sacrifice his freedom for that long when he didn't have to? No innocent person would, imo.

I do think LE could have done a much better job but the evidence is there against him showing he is guilty but nowadays one never knows what a jury is going to do.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#977 Oct 22, 2013
Yes I know exactly what spatter is and I also know the difference between blood spatter and blood TRANSFER, do you? Tell me which witness testified to there being blood spatter? Give me their name and I can pretty much quote what they said unlike you who relies on a blogger who can't even get it straight which side asked for charges to be dismissed. The blood on his clothing was NOT blood spatter!!!!! Unidentified prints on blood evidence and Guy Heinze Jr has been excluded, why did they tell GBI not to compare any latent prints found in this case to anyone but Guy Heinze??? Wouldn't you want to exclude all the victims as well because then you would know if you did have another suspect. Why was there no blood found in the car? It would have been detected with luminol.
Ignorant
Inept
Incompetent
INNOCENT!!!!!
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#978 Oct 22, 2013
Just to be clear I am referring to the black and grey reversible shorts. So again, tell me which witness testified to there being blood spatter on the black and grey reversible shorts?
ssilocal

Savannah, GA

#979 Oct 22, 2013
I will tell you I have heard from local people that were friends with the victims and guy that he was involved in some sort of way but it was drug related. apparently there is a huge drug cartel here out of darien and they said the reason he was sitting in jail all this time is because he either knew why it happened or was made to watch it happen. either way if he came clean on who did it he would be dead the minute he walked out just like his family for ratting out the cartel. i also heard that is why his brother moved soon after the murders when he graduated to n. Carolina for his safety. there has been many major drug dealers caught here in Brunswick from over the boarder. snipers showed up next door to friends of mine that live in a higher income neighborhood (houses that cost in Brunswick, not the island, low price $400k) and the guy next door with his bmw and louis Vuitton luggage was arrested. his house was equipped with a very advanced security and camera system like you see on movies. he was a major king pen from mexico for drug dealing. he never had drugs on him or ever dealt but he was the "godfather" of the local drug pushers. so it is here and it is a major problem.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#980 Oct 22, 2013
ssilocal wrote:
I will tell you I have heard from local people that were friends with the victims and guy that he was involved in some sort of way but it was drug related. apparently there is a huge drug cartel here out of darien and they said the reason he was sitting in jail all this time is because he either knew why it happened or was made to watch it happen. either way if he came clean on who did it he would be dead the minute he walked out just like his family for ratting out the cartel. i also heard that is why his brother moved soon after the murders when he graduated to n. Carolina for his safety. there has been many major drug dealers caught here in Brunswick from over the boarder. snipers showed up next door to friends of mine that live in a higher income neighborhood (houses that cost in Brunswick, not the island, low price $400k) and the guy next door with his bmw and louis Vuitton luggage was arrested. his house was equipped with a very advanced security and camera system like you see on movies. he was a major king pen from mexico for drug dealing. he never had drugs on him or ever dealt but he was the "godfather" of the local drug pushers. so it is here and it is a major problem.
This is actually a logical theory, more so than that of the lead detective's testimony of Guy Heinze Jr's motive. We will probably never know what really happened in that trailer due to a less than par investigation by the local police. Does he know what happened ? I have no idea but if I was him I'd be keeping my mouth shut too as to not end up another victim. I still think had he been there during the murders he would have a substantial amount of blood spatter and not a minimal amount of transfer blood on his clothing.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#981 Oct 22, 2013
misplaced wrote:
Of course the DA is readyto go with this-- they "misplaced" vital evidence, surpressed evidence and refused to give up ALL articles of discovery-- they are intentionally leaving the defense with very little to defend against.
Too many people here think Jr is guilty because the cops say he is. They don't know all the details and I don't claim to, either.
But, I have known this family since the early 80's. I KNOW these people. I grew up with Sr and with Rusty. I watched their families grow.
People can only wish their families were as strong and supporting as this family was. They weren't perfect, but NONE of us are. They had problems and they had issues -- just like the rest of us.
Unless Jr told me to my face he did it, there is no way I could think otherwise.
Well there you, your source confirmed. Based on reading your post you seem a little more intelligent than as to put all your faith in a news station blogger. He is only reporting about 50% percent of the actual testimony of witnesses.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#982 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
<quoted text>
You can link on this site and the reporter is reporting on it as the evidence is being entered. Just keep refreshing your screen for updates.
The evidence being entered is horrific.
http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2013-10-...
There's also been no forensic evidence that showed Guy Heinze was involved.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#983 Oct 22, 2013
nellie wrote:
All I know is, this is a horrific murder of 8 people..all family members...they must have been asleep when this happened..The person that did this sure has intense anger problems......The devil was on the loose on that night...I hope justice will be served in this case....
And yet another confirmation of your "inside source". A source that is being paid to elicit a reaction out of its readers/viewers .
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#984 Oct 22, 2013
Sorry Nellie that comment on your post was meant for caring. I commented on the wrong post and didn't realize it.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#985 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think they will be showing the trial on line anywhere.
But this news station is keeping up with it and has a reporter inside the courtroom.
I read today that most all of the victims died where they were sleeping. Only the 15 year old had defensive wounds (broken hand).
"In his opening statement Assistant District Attorney John B. Johnson said that the person Heinze identified as a cousin, Michael Toler, 19, had been most savagely beaten and there was blood all over his bed and the room.
When asked what he had done after walking through the mobile home, Heinze said he had gone outside “smoked a marijuana cigarette,’’ and then asked a neighbor to call 911, Stalvey testified.
Also in his opening statement, Johnson referred to the 911 call and something Heinze said to a neighbor.
Before police arrived, Heinze said his family had been beaten to death and that statement showed he knew how everyone had died, Johnson said.
The first police on the scene thought the victims had been shot, Johnson said. Stalvey testified his first impression was that everyone had been shot.
Heinze told officers he checked the victims for life by placing his fingers on their wrists, Johnson said.
“One of the things we’re going to see is there was an awful lot of blood in this house,’’ Johnson said.
In spite of that, Heinze had no blood on his hands, Johnson said.
He also told police that he had walked throughout the house, but the blood of only two victims, that of his father and West, was on the sandals Heinze wore, Johnson said.
Also, police found Michelle Toler’s cell phone in the car Heinze was driving: It had the blood of West who was beaten to death in the same room as Michelle, Johnson said."
Johnson asserted that only one victim, Michelle Toler ,who had a broken hand, had defended themselves. Johnson said that Russell Toler Jr., had also been stabbed several times after he died of a brutal beating.
Read more at Jacksonville.com : http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2013-10-...
Your "inside source" is being paid to entice a reaction out of readers...don't put so much faith in the media.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#986 Oct 22, 2013
Who knows wrote:
<quoted text>
Well there you, your source confirmed. Based on reading your post you seem a little more intelligent than as to put all your faith in a news station blogger. He is only reporting about 50% percent of the actual testimony of witnesses.
SOrry I commented on the wrong post. Meant to comment on Caring's post that was just above yours.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#987 Oct 22, 2013
I apologize to everyone that I've accidentally commented on a post you made, all my comments were intended to be on Caring's post. It would have been the post just before yours that I commented on. Sissilocal your comment was intended for your post.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#988 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
This part is going to be his waterloo:
Asked when he put on black gym shorts, Heinze said, "I had them on all the time under what I had on.''
Police have testified that, beneath a pair of khaki shorts, Heinze had on black and gray reversible gym shorts and that blood spatters were visible on the lighter gray side of the shorts. A DNA analyst testified the blood was that of some of the victims.
**********
When he took them off he had the darker side showing but when they reversed them there was blood of the victims found on them. Victims he said he never touched.
Imo, the reason he did not pay West for the drugs the last time was because West was dead along with the rest he had murdered.
The jury is seeing the exact location where the bloody palm print was found belonging to Guy Heinz Jr along with the blood of one of the victims that was already long dead when LE arrived at the scene. This means to make a bloody palm print the blood of the victim had to be wet at the time he made the imprint. Not only was this is hot as hell August but they had no air conditioner either. But they did have large box fans in the window which would dry the deceased victims' blood even faster.
IIRC, the state wanted to introduce drawings the younger children had made and had put up on the refrigerator that had blood on them. If so it means the blood was going up that high as he attacked in order to land on the drawings. Then he may have leaned against the refrig for support and that is where the bloody palm print comes from.
And the blood found on his clothing was 'BLOOD SPATTER" and not transference blood meaning the blood was being flung at a high velocity at the time when it landed on his clothing and shoes. That can only mean he was the one striking these poor people over and over again making the blood spatter backwards onto him.
Tell me which police officer/officers testified to it being blood spatter?
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#989 Oct 22, 2013
bleeding heart not wrote:
It saddens me that you have your head up your arse.
It saddens me that you have your head so far up your "arse" as you put it that you are forming a decision based on what is being posted by a news blogger.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#990 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
This is my assessment of this case thus far. Guilty BARD.
There were 8 blood spatters (spatter can only happen when the blood is being hurled through the air at a high velocity as the blood is being let.) The blood of a victim was found on the cell phone inside the vehicle that GHjr was driving is huge. The medication belonging to one of the victims (MT) was found in the vehicle the suspect was driving. The shotgun hidden in the trunk of the vehicle the suspect was driving also had blood on it. The bloody palm print on the paper found inside the home belongs to the suspect. Bloody palm prints can only be made when the blood is wet and this victim was deceased when GHjr supposedly 'found' the victims. He said he only touched two victims. His father and Michael. Blood is easily seen on someone's hands. No blood was seen on his hands. He has blood spatter on the top of his sandals. No blood on the bottom.
He was seen in black shorts yet the 8 blood spatters were on the inside of the lighter gray boxer/gym type underwear. Which means he changed them so the dark side wouldn't show the blood. He really believed at the time LE would think he was a victim and had just found his entire family dead.
He had made previous threats to murder them all. He was strung out on crack. He said Joe let him have it without paying yet if so why didn't he get his crack from Joe instead of begging to buy crack just the night before from someone else telling them he had $50. If Joe let him have crack then why go on to a crack party to buy crack?
The witnesses testified that these men had money before they were murdered yet all but one had no money when found nor none of the female victims either.
His story has more holes in it than swiss cheese. The DA has proven he lied to cover his a**.
He murdered all of these people and thought he had murdered Byron also. Victim after victim has been tied to him and his clothing/shoes...the cell/gun/bloody palm print, and prescription medication.
Isn't it odd that not one person in that entire home had crack in their system when they died?
I pray these poor people get the justice they deserve and their murderer is given the death penalty.
Again tell me who testified to the blood spatter? Since you are such an expert, why didn't he have any of Byron's blood on him since your theory is that he thought he had killed Byron.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#991 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
<quoted text>
No my opinion will not change because a vote of NG never means someone is innocent. The only way this jury will find him NG is if they have been bused in from Pinellas County, Florida aka Casey Anthony type clueless jurors.
This is testimony heard from the inside of the courtroom and blogged by the reporter inside. Of course it isn't 100% accurate. There was way more evidence entered in greater detail than he can report when court is in session 9 hours a day.
Do you even know what BLOOD SPATTER MEANS? I think not, based on your assumptions the prosecution hasn't proved its case.
Forensics never lies..it has no biases..it knows no one's name beforehand. It is what it is. GHjr has been tied to victim after victim after victim through blood spatter which means the blood was being sprayed at a high velocity at the time they were being murdered.
LE did not write this family off as white trash. They arrested the one who murdered them. The one that lied his arse off saying the shotgun with blood on it that he hid in the vehicle was hot when he knew it was a legally obtained weapon owned by Rusty Sr since 1985!
The blood SPATTER on his clothes..the cell phone in the vehicle he was driving..the blood SPATTER on his sandals..blood on the shotgun he hid..his bloody palm print found and the medication belonging to one of the victims he murdered was inside the vehicle he was driving. A vehicle that witnesses testified to that no one drove but the owner, Rusty Jr. Remember he said he only touched two people? His father and Michael which is a bald face lie because the forensic blood spatters tells the truth regardless of what this bald face liar says.
He is guilty alright but there are injustices done in our justice system quite often and murderers walk free never to pay for what they have done. I pray he is not one of those who isn't held accountable for the guilty acts he has done against his own people.
LOL You sound somewhat like the quirky juror on this case who seems to be trying to taint the jury, so much so that the other jurors have complained, as well as the court officers who have had to admonish him for going against his oath. Yet he still runs his mouth.
I'm just an average person who went into the courtroom with an open mind. Your right, forensics do not lie which will be the reason he is found NOT GUILTY. And again, tell me who testified to it being blood spatter? I'm not asking you that because I'm confused or do not know, I'm repeatedly asking you that because NO ONE testified to it being blood spatter.
Who knows

Pembroke, GA

#992 Oct 22, 2013
Caring wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe it is you that exhibits ignorant behavior based on your thuggish reply. I will not stoop to your level of ignorance or stupidity.
Perhaps you should have paid more attention to the testimony. Items that are dry to not transfer blood and the items were all taken many many hours after the murders had happened.
Of course the bloody cell phone was found in the car this suspect was driving. The blood found on the cell phone found in the vehicle belonged to one of the deceased victims. I thought you said you have kept up with this case?
Try another lame putdown..... because that one isn't going to work, I have never done drugs of any kind. Your childish cyber bullying doesn't bother me in the least.
Perhaps you should have paid more attention to the testimony by actually ATTENDING the trial.

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