Bradford County Ten Commandments monu...

Bradford County Ten Commandments monument dedicated

There are 34 comments on the Florida Baptist Witness story from May 4, 2012, titled Bradford County Ten Commandments monument dedicated. In it, Florida Baptist Witness reports that:

STARKE Bradford County citizens dedicated a new Ten Commandments monument at their County Courthouse in Starke May 3 as part of the community's observance of National Day of Prayer.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Florida Baptist Witness.

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jan tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#22 Aug 30, 2012
I know enough about my country to know there is something wrong-when people are coming into counties throughout the nation taking over local governments-with threats and law suits.....forcing THEIR OWN BELIEFS on the people of those counties.

What is happening is wrong.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#23 Aug 31, 2012
jan tetstone wrote:
I know enough about my country to know there is something wrong-when people are coming into counties throughout the nation taking over local governments-with threats and law suits.....forcing THEIR OWN BELIEFS on the people of those counties.
What is happening is wrong.
No Jan, you don't know enough about your country. You don't even understand the basic civics issues here.

There is something WRONG when a county government endorses a religion. It's illegal. What part of this do you not get?

Or, perhaps I should ask for a shorter answer, what part of it DO you get??
Jan Tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#24 Aug 31, 2012
Well, if i wanted to place a monument of the Liberty bell at the Bradford county Florida courthouse-would that be okay?
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#25 Aug 31, 2012
Jan Tetstone wrote:
Well, if i wanted to place a monument of the Liberty bell at the Bradford county Florida courthouse-would that be okay?
Yes, under the ceremonial deism exception. Independent secular purpose, despite the inscription.
So said Sandra Day O'Connor anyway. I think she was right.
Jan Tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#26 Aug 31, 2012
In 1751, the Speaker of the Pennsylvania Assembly ordered a new bell for the State House. He asked that a Bible verse be placed on the bell: Proclaim Liberty throughout the Land Unto all the inhabitants thereof --Leviticus 25:10

http://www.nps.gov/inde/planyourvisit/upload/...

So. You are saying a Bible verse on a monument of the Liberty Bell would not be offensive to an atheist or a non believer? Or are you saying there are it depends on what scripture one chooses to put on a monument?

In that case, if I choose to place a monument of the Liberty Bell- because it [the bell] is viewed as a national treasure [or falls under the ceremonial deism exception]- I can put the bell as long as it has Leviticus 25:10 verse on it "only"?

Interesting.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#27 Sep 4, 2012
The verse itself does not include a message that is per se religious.

Whether it is "offensive" to someone is an issue pertaining to their standing to bring the case, NOT whether the inscription is unconstitutional or not. Those are two different legal issues.

No one said at any point that it could *only* be that particular verse, it just so happens that this verse qualifies because:

a) it happens to be on an historical artifact that itself serves an independent secular purposes and

b) the verse itself makes no mention of God, religion, etc.

I am sure there are other verses that could also qualify.
jan tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#28 Sep 5, 2012
Strel wrote:
The verse itself does not include a message that is per se religious.
Whether it is "offensive" to someone is an issue pertaining to their standing to bring the case, NOT whether the inscription is unconstitutional or not. Those are two different legal issues.
No one said at any point that it could *only* be that particular verse, it just so happens that this verse qualifies because:
a) it happens to be on an historical artifact that itself serves an independent secular purposes and
b) the verse itself makes no mention of God, religion, etc.
I am sure there are other verses that could also qualify.
The verse comes directly from the Christian Bible! You know the same Bible that contains the Ten Commandment???

Proclaim Liberty throughout the Land Unto all the inhabitants thereof --Leviticus 25:10
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#29 Sep 6, 2012
Read the verse. Standing alone it says nothing about religion one way or the other.

Honestly, I have put it as simply as it can be put and you just persist in being dumb about it.
jan tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#30 Sep 6, 2012
Strel wrote:
Read the verse. Standing alone it says nothing about religion one way or the other.
Honestly, I have put it as simply as it can be put and you just persist in being dumb about it.
Standing alone or in a group it remains a Bible verse that is contained in the same Bible as is the Ten Commandments. You know which book I'm talking about? The Christian Bible.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#31 Sep 7, 2012
jan tetstone wrote:
<quoted text>
Standing alone or in a group it remains a Bible verse that is contained in the same Bible as is the Ten Commandments. You know which book I'm talking about? The Christian Bible.
I have already explained the several reasons that an inscription on the Liberty Bell qualifies as ceremonial deism, an exception to the Establishment clause.

You fail to understand.

I dare say also I probably know a lot more about the Bible than you do. If you read it as badly as you read the law, I'm sure of it.

The situation with the Liberty Bell and the Ten monument is NOT THE SAME. There are several distinguishing factors.

1. The Ten is, arguably, one of if not THE central tenet of Judaism, Christianity and perhaps even Islam in certain contexts. It's not just some random verse, it is a list of COMMANDMENTS which explicity lay out values and standards for multiple religions. You cannot say that the Ten, in the context of this monument, do not advance religion. They absolutely do.

By contrast the inscription on the Liberty Bell makes no mention of God, Jesus or indeed has ANY religious language in it AT ALL. That it comes from the Bible really isn't the point. The verse itself is non-religious and more importantly, in the language of the Supreme Court, it serves an "independent secular purpose."

Inscriptions of that type - and even some that include the word "God" (such as "In God We Trust") are considered ceremonial in nature and as the very wise Sandra Day O'Connor described, they have been around so long and are so often repeated in a secular context that they don't violate the Constitution.

Anyway, now that I know your level of education, I can see why you have such a problem understanding all of this. You just do not have the intellectual tools to understand it. I began to suspect when you wrote words like "interfear", showing that this is a word you have heard, but probably never read or used very much in writing.

So anyone trying to explain this stuff to you is wasting their time. You just do not have the capacity. That is likely not your fault and you have my sympathy for that, but it also means you are absolutely not qualified to give any worthwhile opinion on the subject.
jan tetstone

Gainesville, FL

#32 Sep 7, 2012
Strel wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already explained the several reasons that an inscription on the Liberty Bell qualifies as ceremonial deism, an exception to the Establishment clause.
You fail to understand.
I dare say also I probably know a lot more about the Bible than you do. If you read it as badly as you read the law, I'm sure of it.
The situation with the Liberty Bell and the Ten monument is NOT THE SAME. There are several distinguishing factors.
1. The Ten is, arguably, one of if not THE central tenet of Judaism, Christianity and perhaps even Islam in certain contexts. It's not just some random verse, it is a list of COMMANDMENTS which explicity lay out values and standards for multiple religions. You cannot say that the Ten, in the context of this monument, do not advance religion. They absolutely do.
By contrast the inscription on the Liberty Bell makes no mention of God, Jesus or indeed has ANY religious language in it AT ALL. That it comes from the Bible really isn't the point. The verse itself is non-religious and more importantly, in the language of the Supreme Court, it serves an "independent secular purpose."
Inscriptions of that type - and even some that include the word "God" (such as "In God We Trust") are considered ceremonial in nature and as the very wise Sandra Day O'Connor described, they have been around so long and are so often repeated in a secular context that they don't violate the Constitution.
Anyway, now that I know your level of education, I can see why you have such a problem understanding all of this. You just do not have the intellectual tools to understand it. I began to suspect when you wrote words like "interfear", showing that this is a word you have heard, but probably never read or used very much in writing.
So anyone trying to explain this stuff to you is wasting their time. You just do not have the capacity. That is likely not your fault and you have my sympathy for that, but it also means you are absolutely not qualified to give any worthwhile opinion on the subject.
There are exceptions to every rule....And we know who gets to say what is the except and what is not... in these cases.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#33 Sep 7, 2012
Yeah, the Supreme Court of the United States gets to say it. They get the final word and their word is law.
Rich Tampa

Saint Petersburg, FL

#34 Dec 26, 2012
Jan Tetstone wrote:
LinSing As a resident of Bradford I agree 100%. Those trying to push their anti-god agenda on the good people of Bradford County Florida should be ashamed of themselves.
How ignorant can you be? If you have the right to post the 10 commandments then muslims should be ablet to post quotes from the koran? I'm guessing you live in that hick county? Most who live there are uneducated morons. If you don't understand our constitution then I suggest you move to a country that shares your same views about religion.. I suggest maybe Iran or Iraq.. All of those middle eastern countrys have the same view as you as far as blending religion and govenmet.
gab

Lake Villa, IL

#35 Dec 28, 2012
The road to heaven is paved with good intentions.

Romans 14:13

King James Version (KJV)


13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

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