OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, Sta...

OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, State Question 756

Created by CitizenTopix on Oct 11, 2010

1,604 votes

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Packing Heat

United States

#19304 May 8, 2012
Justaminute wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a good question, why are they? The only thing I can't think of is the President's for it and that's usually all it takes for them to be against it.


Iím seeing education in purely practical terms. Iím not saying that there isnít value to someone getting a college degree and broadening his or her mind just for the sake of it. I am saying that I see little reason for the taxpayers to support it for everyone. Just as our political class ignored the housing bubble until it was too late, we can expect our politicians not to do anything until the roof caves in and weíre facing tens or even hundreds of billions in loan defaults.

Right now, both our Presidential candidates are trying to keep student loans cheap and subsidized, keeping the interest rates at 3.4% or so. Romney doesn't want the taxpayer on the hook for the debt! Ironically, these two Nanny-Stators are suddenly unwilling to act like parents and say,ďNo!Ē to young people. And thatís just for interest rates. It takes a lot more courage than either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney can muster to say,ďNot everyone should go or can afford to go to college. Again, I am saying that I see no reason for the taxpayers to support and pay it for everyone or anyone for that matter.

And thatís what they should be saying. A lot of people wanting college degrees would be better off getting more practical and technical education or job training. A lot would be better off going to community or junior colleges, at least for the first couple of years.
The only alternative view that has gotten any attention from liberals is that of the Occupy crowd who want student loan forgiveness. If anything, that is more asinine.

While student loan in aggregate is a concern, the typical student has $25,000 in debt when they graduate. While I think some have incurred that expense needlessly, thatís hardly crippling. Itís less than a loan for a nice car, and given on better terms. There are millions with bigger medical bills who muddle through. Spare me your liberal sobs. That is simply not a reason the taxpayer should be held responsible for. Right now the outstanding student loan debt is $870 BILLION and climbing.

THAT'S WHY!
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19305 May 8, 2012
Mitt's trying to take credit for saving GM. I guess he forgot the article that he wrote in the Wall Street Journal titled "Let GM Go Bankrupt!"

I guess he forgot his planned bankruptcy was private investors picking up GM. That was tried. No one would come forward. And big investors were asked. Even the company he makes money from. Bain Investments. No dice. Then Obama and the government HAD to step into save them.

I guess the next thing that we'll hear, Mitt will saw, "Going after Bin Laden was my idea!"
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19306 May 8, 2012
Mitt Romney says spending cuts will shrink economy and destroy jobs ... so why does he support them?

Romney said ďNow, I'm not going to cut a trillion dollars in the first year.Ē And I heard a question. Why not? And the answer is: taking a trillion dollars out of a $15 trillion economy would cause our economy to shrink and would put a lot of people out of work.

But here's my question: If Romney says spending cuts hurt the economy, why are spending cuts at the heart of his fiscal policy?
Cocked Hat

United States

#19307 May 8, 2012
Student loans on tax payer's backs? I guess I understand now. I'm not sure about the details of removing the corporate tax breaks. What are they for? That might clear up some confusion too.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19308 May 8, 2012
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
Iím seeing education in purely practical terms. Iím not saying that there isnít value to someone getting a college degree and broadening his or her mind just for the sake of it. I am saying that I see little reason for the taxpayers to support it for everyone. Just as our political class ignored the housing bubble until it was too late, we can expect our politicians not to do anything until the roof caves in and weíre facing tens or even hundreds of billions in loan defaults.
Right now, both our Presidential candidates are trying to keep student loans cheap and subsidized, keeping the interest rates at 3.4% or so. Romney doesn't want the taxpayer on the hook for the debt! Ironically, these two Nanny-Stators are suddenly unwilling to act like parents and say,ďNo!Ē to young people. And thatís just for interest rates. It takes a lot more courage than either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney can muster to say,ďNot everyone should go or can afford to go to college. Again, I am saying that I see no reason for the taxpayers to support and pay it for everyone or anyone for that matter.
And thatís what they should be saying. A lot of people wanting college degrees would be better off getting more practical and technical education or job training. A lot would be better off going to community or junior colleges, at least for the first couple of years.
The only alternative view that has gotten any attention from liberals is that of the Occupy crowd who want student loan forgiveness. If anything, that is more asinine.
While student loan in aggregate is a concern, the typical student has $25,000 in debt when they graduate. While I think some have incurred that expense needlessly, thatís hardly crippling. Itís less than a loan for a nice car, and given on better terms. There are millions with bigger medical bills who muddle through. Spare me your liberal sobs. That is simply not a reason the taxpayer should be held responsible for. Right now the outstanding student loan debt is $870 BILLION and climbing.
THAT'S WHY!
That's bull shit. That's a great investment for our tax dollars. Way better than subsidizing the oil companies. Better that subsidized the Military Industrial Complex. Way better than subsidizing Wall Street. And way way better than subsidizing the Rich.

Students are our Future.

With citizens like you No wonder we are on the downhill slide against other Western countries and China and the Far East.
Cocked Hat

United States

#19309 May 8, 2012
Is Mitt talking about targeted spending cuts?
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19310 May 8, 2012
Cocked Hat wrote:
Student loans on tax payer's backs? I guess I understand now. I'm not sure about the details of removing the corporate tax breaks. What are they for? That might clear up some confusion too.
You do know how a loan works right. You get paid back, even at 3.2 interest rate, where can you put your money in a bank that pays more interest than that.

And the benefit of an educated populace is priceless. To bad you and Meat don't understand that.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19311 May 8, 2012
Cocked Hat wrote:
Is Mitt talking about targeted spending cuts?
Mitt is skimpy on details.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19312 May 8, 2012
And one good thing about Federal Students loans, unlike other loans, they can't file bankruptcy either. You can't remove Federal Student loan debt or taxes in bankruptcy. Now that's a good loan!
Cocked Hat

United States

#19313 May 8, 2012
Public education totally sux. But I am in favor of a super strong military. We face serious threats many are refusing to see.
Subsidizing oil companies and wall street - you can't be capitalist on the way up and socialist on the way down.

Simplify the tax code with a flat tax, way way less loopholes and less double digging. Everyone needs to pay a FAIR share. Some tax rates are outrageous and some are laughable.
Cocked Hat

United States

#19314 May 8, 2012
No, I understand the value of an educated populace. Heat does make sense with the cost to tax payers in an education free for all.

Listen to this theory:
Stop the war on drugs.
Drug test people to receive a wellfare check, tax return, or other government checks. How much money could you save and target drug users more effectively?
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19315 May 8, 2012
Cocked Hat wrote:
Public education totally sux. But I am in favor of a super strong military. We face serious threats many are refusing to see.
Subsidizing oil companies and wall street - you can't be capitalist on the way up and socialist on the way down.
Simplify the tax code with a flat tax, way way less loopholes and less double digging. Everyone needs to pay a FAIR share. Some tax rates are outrageous and some are laughable.
So you think you should pay the same amount in tax as a millionaire?
Cocked Hat

United States

#19316 May 8, 2012
Drug test for student loans, pell grants etc
Cocked Hat

United States

#19317 May 8, 2012
Tax rates like millionaires?

Percentagewise, yes. Say 12% for my thousands and 12% of his millions? That would be fine by me. There's no need to get greedy. Removing the tax shelters and loopholes, yeah. That would be fine with me.
Cocked Hat

United States

#19318 May 8, 2012
I'm talking about a real flat tax. Completely simplified to a percentage. No loops or shelters.
I think you would save money on the IRS printing, staffing, everything. You would hope there would be better compliance and collections. Maybe less corruption.

Couple that with drug tests for government money and stopping the war on drugs in it's current form.
I think a great deal of money, lives, resources would be saved.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19319 May 8, 2012
And I don't think my degree at OU sucks.

No public education system can preform well when funds to run it are continually cut. And you get out of school what you put into it. Why do University students that come from countries that barely invest in education like China come here and knock our students sock off?

My daughter graduated this weekend and 4 of the 5 top graduates were Chinese.

In my husbands country, every year there is a standardized test the student has to take and pass to be able to move onto the next grade. China is the same way. That doesn't take money that just takes effort. And in world wide competition for various subjects like physics and math, they always knock our socks off.

No school can make a child learn or excel, it's up to them and takes a lot of parental involvement. Now that's our problem right there.
Cocked Hat

United States

#19320 May 8, 2012
I wasn't talking about university. Public school - k -12 grade.
Cocked Hat

United States

#19321 May 8, 2012
I agree, parents have to work with their children to maximize the results of public education. My son is consistently rated highly in his class or above the other students. I spend a great deal of time explaining and showing him details. His vocabulary is far and away higher than his classmates.
Many parent expect the school to be the end all, be all. I always figured school would be a base and my knowledge would be the walls and roof. I don't have much faith in school even though I excelled.
I fill in the gaps so my child has a huge view of the world and how pieces fit. It has proven valuable to him.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19322 May 8, 2012
Cocked Hat wrote:
Drug test for student loans, pell grants etc
That is ridiculous. Have you ever received an advanced degree? You can't be drugged out and receive one.

Plus that's a loan. It is not FREE.
Justaminute

Edmond, OK

#19323 May 8, 2012
Cocked Hat wrote:
I wasn't talking about university. Public school - k -12 grade.
So am I. In my posts I addressed this. You just have to read it.

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