High court to hear arguments in transgender bathroom case next week

Jun 9, 2013 Full story: Bangor Daily News 23

Nicole Maines, 14, her mother Kelly Maines and her twin brother Jonas listen to Wayne Maines, right, as he delivers a stirring speech about their experience in helping Nicole seek justice and acceptance as a transgender youth.

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Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#1 Jun 9, 2013
More and more, Transexual people are being recognized as having a medical condition that must be considered as any other medical condition.
Regards, Terri
Tiffany

Bangor, ME

#2 Jun 9, 2013
I don't care what you cut off or add to your body you are still the same sex you were born and nothing can change that. I don't want some dude gay or not walking into the womens room even if he did get his wang cut off or turned inside out or what ever the doctor did to mutilate him. Also I hate it when people tell me I need to "respect" the right to call a man a woman after his sex change and that it's his "right" to be called a woman. WHAT about my RIGHT to observe SCIENTIFIC FACT that he is still a man no matter what crazy mad doctor did to his body. What about having my right to my opinion respected that I will not and can not call a he a she if he was born with a wang. And don't give me that "he was a woman trapped in a mans body" crap because it's not true. Sure everyone has a masculine or feminine side but in the end that is all just subjective emotional stuff. Biologically, Cognitively, and Factually if you are born with a penis you are a man. If you are born with a vagina you are a woman, if you are born with both you are a hermaphrodite. End of Story! Case Closed! I don't mind people cross dressing to get their kicks but when it's an every day thing there is obviously something mentally wrong with that person. Now all that said I have nothing against gay people or bisexual people or what they do. I've seen a lot of gay men that act like real tough men. But some of these weirdos that dress up like it's Halloween need real mental help but it's just sad that doctors, lawyers, psychologists, and law makers in the USA today are all corrupted and twisted individuals.
anna

United States

#3 Jun 9, 2013
Tiffany wrote:
I don't care what you cut off or add to your body you are still the same sex you were born and nothing can change that. I don't want some dude gay or not walking into the womens room even if he did get his wang cut off or turned inside out or what ever the doctor did to mutilate him. Also I hate it when people tell me I need to "respect" the right to call a man a woman after his sex change and that it's his "right" to be called a woman. WHAT about my RIGHT to observe SCIENTIFIC FACT that he is still a man no matter what crazy mad doctor did to his body. What about having my right to my opinion respected that I will not and can not call a he a she if he was born with a wang. And don't give me that "he was a woman trapped in a mans body" crap because it's not true. Sure everyone has a masculine or feminine side but in the end that is all just subjective emotional stuff. Biologically, Cognitively, and Factually if you are born with a penis you are a man. If you are born with a vagina you are a woman, if you are born with both you are a hermaphrodite. End of Story! Case Closed! I don't mind people cross dressing to get their kicks but when it's an every day thing there is obviously something mentally wrong with that person. Now all that said I have nothing against gay people or bisexual people or what they do. I've seen a lot of gay men that act like real tough men. But some of these weirdos that dress up like it's Halloween need real mental help but it's just sad that doctors, lawyers, psychologists, and law makers in the USA today are all corrupted and twisted individuals.


You are saying women are nothing more then vaginas and men penises?
Jeni M

Waterford, MI

#4 Jun 10, 2013
Tiffany wrote:
I don't care what you cut off or add to your body you are still the same sex you were born and nothing can change that. I don't want some dude gay or not walking into the womens room even if he did get his wang cut off or turned inside out or what ever the doctor did to mutilate him. Also I hate it when people tell me I need to "respect" the right to call a man a woman after his sex change and that it's his "right" to be called a woman. WHAT about my RIGHT to observe SCIENTIFIC FACT that he is still a man no matter what crazy mad doctor did to his body. What about having my right to my opinion respected that I will not and can not call a he a she if he was born with a wang. And don't give me that "he was a woman trapped in a mans body" crap because it's not true. Sure everyone has a masculine or feminine side but in the end that is all just subjective emotional stuff. Biologically, Cognitively, and Factually if you are born with a penis you are a man. If you are born with a vagina you are a woman, if you are born with both you are a hermaphrodite. End of Story! Case Closed! I don't mind people cross dressing to get their kicks but when it's an every day thing there is obviously something mentally wrong with that person. Now all that said I have nothing against gay people or bisexual people or what they do. I've seen a lot of gay men that act like real tough men. But some of these weirdos that dress up like it's Halloween need real mental help but it's just sad that doctors, lawyers, psychologists, and law makers in the USA today are all corrupted and twisted individuals.
That is a very ignorant and ridiculous comment! Its obvious you don't know a damn thing about science and medicine so go back to school and get an education!
Brianna

Bangor, ME

#5 Jun 10, 2013
I think this Tiffany is the same little ignorant B word that lives on East Summer Street in Bangor or her stupid boyfriend lives there. We lived next door to them once and she was always saying ignorant stupid things like this. Even looking at her face and hearing her whiny voice you can tell she's a spiteful person. She also loves to ramble on and on about stuff too just like her long winded post. She talks just the way she writes.
Jeni M

Waterford, MI

#6 Jun 11, 2013
Brianna wrote:
I think this Tiffany is the same little ignorant B word that lives on East Summer Street in Bangor or her stupid boyfriend lives there. We lived next door to them once and she was always saying ignorant stupid things like this. Even looking at her face and hearing her whiny voice you can tell she's a spiteful person. She also loves to ramble on and on about stuff too just like her long winded post. She talks just the way she writes.
Thanks for the insight ,Brianna! She obviously does not take into account people who are born intersexed anatomically, physiologically, and a chromosome level and endocrinology:In human embryology there can also be problems with hormones in the sixth week of pregnancy.
Steven

Bangor, ME

#7 Jun 12, 2013
Dear Brianna, This Tiffany woman isn't the only one in Bangor that is intolerable. I've met so many ignorant people in Bangor it's not even funny. Also way too many over opinionated people in Bangor that think they know what they are talking about yet have absolutely no clue. They all seem so bitter here. Moving to Maine was my worst decision ever. People warned me but I didn't listen. I relied on articles and info I read from travel agencies and commerce services that want us to move here. But I really should have listened to a lot of personal online reviews I read and the comments I heard from people that lived in Maine before me which were for the most part negative. I've just about saved enough money to move by next year. But yea it's not just this Tiffany B-word you spoke of it's a lot of the men and women here. Also just want to point out that people here are very ugly looking not just on the outside but on the inside as well. I'm not that judgmental of looks but even I have my limits. These people don't care how they look most are either too skinny or way too fat and I mean obese fat. Have no fashion sense and few care about hygiene. Not only do they stink but a lot of peoples apartment and homes I've seen smell terrible and are very dirty looking. They live like they act and they act like they don't care. They only time they act like they care is when they think they can obtain something from someone and use someone.
bubba

Oklahoma City, OK

#8 Jun 12, 2013
So Maines is a biological male who from an early age identified as a girl. So "HE" has male sex parts but chooses to dress like a girl. Isnt that actually a Drag Queen? Keep your male parts in the mens restroom boy! I wouldn't want my girl in the same restroom as a boy! When you whack it off and drill a hole there then I'll be ok with it. Until then keep out the girls bathroom!

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#9 Jun 13, 2013
Well, Bubba, You won't be able to plead ignorance after this response. Let's try to wrap your mind around this fact, About 1% of the population has a birth defect (Hormones in the womb?)in which we are convinced we should have been born the opposite sex. This feeling/conviction begins at a very early age and will follow you through life. It nags at you mercilessly. It won't leave you alone. It's there when you wake in the morning and it's there when you go to bed. These people are called Transexuals!
A Drag Queen is another breed of kitty. A DQ does a Drag act,(which they're very good at) and takes the dress off and goes home in pants, to his wife or lover (Male or female) He is a professional. Still another, is the Transvestite or Crossdresser. Transvestites merely dress for relief. A few hours as "Barbara" or "Carol' and they become male again and go on with their lives. Most have wives and children.
Their is a lot of Crossover with these three types, but generally those are the designations. A crossgendered child a Drag Queen? I don't think so! The child has problems, but they can't be fixed by a psychiatrist, only guided through them.
Regards, Terri
bubba wrote:
So Maines is a biological male who from an early age identified as a girl. So "HE" has male sex parts but chooses to dress like a girl. Isnt that actually a Drag Queen? Keep your male parts in the mens restroom boy! I wouldn't want my girl in the same restroom as a boy! When you whack it off and drill a hole there then I'll be ok with it. Until then keep out the girls bathroom!

“Peace”

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#10 Jun 13, 2013
bubba wrote:
So Maines is a biological male who from an early age identified as a girl. So "HE" has male sex parts but chooses to dress like a girl. Isnt that actually a Drag Queen? Keep your male parts in the mens restroom boy! I wouldn't want my girl in the same restroom as a boy! When you whack it off and drill a hole there then I'll be ok with it. Until then keep out the girls bathroom!
we don't know if Kelly is a biological male or not, not all people have standard chromosomes.

“Peace”

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#11 Jun 13, 2013
this married man has xx chromosomes

http://www.priory.com/med/xx.htm
bubba

United States

#12 Jun 13, 2013
Annaleigh wrote:
<quoted text>we don't know if Kelly is a biological male or not, not all people have standard chromosomes.
Yes "we" do know. It stated it on the news. She has male parts. You just don't know, so don't speak for people in the know!

“Peace”

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#13 Jun 14, 2013
I am sorry Bubba, I should have read more into your login name for your comment, I understand now.

I did not read where her chromosomes had been checked,,, but

A hermaphrodite cow has no place on your farm because if you stump broke it, you might feel gay not knowing exactly what sex it is.

I know it is often common practice to shoot them while young but if raised to around a 2 years, they can be eaten.

[In the black cattle it seems to be an established principle of their propagation. It is a well known fact, and, as far as has yet been discovered, appears to be universal, that when a cow brings forth two calves, one of them a bull, and the other a coy: to appearance, the cow is unfit for propagation, but the bull-calf becomes a very proper bull:" They are known not to breed ; they do not shew the least inclination for the bull, nor does the bull ever take the least notice of them.When they are preserved, it is for the purposes of an ox or spayed heifer ; viz. to yoke with the oxen, or fatten for the table. They are much larger than either the bull or cow, and the horns grow longer and bigger, being very similar to those of an ox. The bellow of a free martin is also similar to that of an ox, and the meat is similar to that of the ox or spayed heifer, viz. much finer in the fibre than either the bull or cow, and they are more susceptible of growing fat with good food.

bubba

Oklahoma City, OK

#14 Jun 15, 2013
O.o what the F?? Never mind your farm fetish, back to the topic.

The person in question, has a penis. Regardless of how he feels about being a male, a penis makes you a male. You can grow your hair out, put on a dress and heels, but you're still a male.

I don't understand how a state can recognize a male as a female when they have a penis. Had the boy got it removed and then wanted to be legally known as a female and go into girls restroom with other girl, I'm ok with that.

But to just go to the state dressed up like a girl and taking estrogen and get legally recognized as a female is wrong to me and it seems it could open doors for the system to get played.

Think hypothetically, a man goes on a raping spree, they don't know who it is, he then dresses up like a girl, takes estrogen and goes to state and gets legally known as a female. He would never be caught for his crimes because they would never look for a "woman".

People will go to great links to keep from going to prison for life. And not just that, but I'm sure it could get abused in other ways.

The kid in question is a male. Regardless of how he feels about his sexual orientation, he is still a male, he has a penis. And at school, you have a penis wanting to go in the bathrooms with other girls. This isn't right. Get it cut off, and I wouldn't have a issue with it personally. And I'm sure many others wouldn't either.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#15 Jun 15, 2013
You don't see it, huh? Yes, We know she has a penis! Too bad, that! Can't operate till she's eighteen! I realize that in your mind, the penis is the defining factor, but other, more developed minds are making the rules here and they have ruled that the penis is not the determining factor. It's the state of mind and they have determined that the state of mind is female. The penis is irrelevant! Now try to do it yourself! Go tell everyone "I'm a Transexual!" and try to get in a Ladies room on the strength of that and see how far you can get! No documentation, no Dr's certification, no prior history, none of the other accompanying symptoms. You'll get far!
Regards, Terri
bubba wrote:
O.o what the F?? Never mind your farm fetish, back to the topic.
The person in question, has a penis. Regardless of how he feels about being a male, a penis makes you a male. You can grow your hair out, put on a dress and heels, but you're still a male.
I don't understand how a state can recognize a male as a female when they have a penis. Had the boy got it removed and then wanted to be legally known as a female and go into girls restroom with other girl, I'm ok with that.
But to just go to the state dressed up like a girl and taking estrogen and get legally recognized as a female is wrong to me and it seems it could open doors for the system to get played.
Think hypothetically, a man goes on a raping spree, they don't know who it is, he then dresses up like a girl, takes estrogen and goes to state and gets legally known as a female. He would never be caught for his crimes because they would never look for a "woman".
People will go to great links to keep from going to prison for life. And not just that, but I'm sure it could get abused in other ways.
The kid in question is a male. Regardless of how he feels about his sexual orientation, he is still a male, he has a penis. And at school, you have a penis wanting to go in the bathrooms with other girls. This isn't right. Get it cut off, and I wouldn't have a issue with it personally. And I'm sure many others wouldn't either.
bubba

Oklahoma City, OK

#16 Jun 15, 2013
TerryE wrote:
<quoted text>You don't see it, huh? Yes, We know she has a penis! Too bad, that! Can't operate till she's eighteen! I realize that in your mind, the penis is the defining factor, but other, more developed minds are making the rules here and they have ruled that the penis is not the determining factor. It's the state of mind and they have determined that the state of mind is female. The penis is irrelevant! Now try to do it yourself! Go tell everyone "I'm a Transexual!" and try to get in a Ladies room on the strength of that and see how far you can get! No documentation, no Dr's certification, no prior history, none of the other accompanying symptoms. You'll get far!
Regards, Terri
Yada Yada Yada! Your feeble attempt to discredit on a intellectual level is just comical coming from a person that signs the bottom of their post as their account name. Hmm when I seen your post name, "Terri" that's who I assumed it was from. But anywho.

What this does is, its allowing a door to be opened for the system to be abused. History of what? There wouldn't be much history I would have to prove, as transsexuals have been the target of negativity so long that itself is a reason to hide it. All a person would have to do is, take estrogen go to a Dr get a letter, take it to the state and boom. I personally know a transsexual that's legally recognized by the state as a female. The person has just only made the transformation 4 years ago but is still in pre-op and is mid 40's. So that person hid it for 40 years. And that person also "been" with a female before in the past. "She"told me. So the "package" works but yet now he's a she. This is what I'm talking about. And what do you know about a more developed mind? You would have to have one to recognize one.

Perhaps you're just biased to the situation, and maybe that's where your blind ignorance spews from. A simple mind like yours merely sees a person that wants to me a woman but yet born with male parts. What I see is, a door that could lead to abuse of the system and I think about the potential victims as to what that cost might be.

Liberal morons like you want only what this person that is "different" wants. Well what about the hundreds of other kids there? If the other kids don't want to be in the restroom or locker room naked with a person with a penis at the same time, then what? Just forget about what all of them want? Do people who have the mentality and bodily features that match it not have rights anymore? Are the mass denied what they want over a single individual? Isn't that how we pick who makes the laws and runs our cities, states, and our country? Who ever the mass vote for wins it.
"Regards, bubba

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#17 Jun 15, 2013
It is refreshing to be called a "Liberal" once in a while. Usually I'm being called a "Right wing, fascist, neo nazi, redneck" for my advocation of gun rights, or the TEA party, or my belief that we should repeal the income tax and The Federal Reserve. Go back to Tariffs! Disband the IRS! My ancestor, Benjamin Harrison had it right! Keep Tariffs! And keep them high! I'm hardly a liberal about anything, But this! Read my profile and list of recent posts
Maybe because I'm affected by it this I understand what it is and what it is not. So your friend, who's a TS, said she could still have sex as a male? Uh huh. Did she say that she does this on a daily basis! Weekly basis? Monthly basis? How often does she actually have sex with a woman? Has she told you that both ability and desire are greatly diminished? Did she tell you that her physical strength is greatly diminished.
So all a Person has to do is take estrogen and then they can do what? Why don't you try it? Just to prove your point. But be aware
of chemical castration. That's when you've taken too much hormone and there's no turning back. You'll be stranded between the sexes. Neither fish nor fowl! A Eunuch! There's a little more to it than just "All you have to do is...." And that's only one "Complication"! Cancer is another! and don't forget heart attacks, and strokes. Big prices to pay! So go ahead, Knock yourself out! You'll get Manboobs and a fatter ass! But keep your eyes on the prise, access to THE LADIESROOM! WOW!! IDIOT!!
Best regards, Terri
bubba wrote:
<quoted text>
Yada Yada Yada! Your feeble attempt to discredit on a intellectual level is just comical coming from a person that signs the bottom of their post as their account name. Hmm when I seen your post name, "Terri" that's who I assumed it was from. But anywho.
What this does is, its allowing a door to be opened for the system to be abused. History of what? There wouldn't be much history I would have to prove, as transsexuals have been the target of negativity so long that itself is a reason to hide it. All a person would have to do is, take estrogen go to a Dr get a letter, take it to the state and boom. I personally know a transsexual that's legally recognized by the state as a female. The person has just only made the transformation 4 years ago but is still in pre-op and is mid 40's. So that person hid it for 40 years. And that person also "been" with a female before in the past. "She"told me. So the "package" works but yet now he's a she. This is what I'm talking about. And what do you know about a more developed mind? You would have to have one to recognize one.
Perhaps you're just biased to the situation, and maybe that's where your blind ignorance spews from. A simple mind like yours merely sees a person that wants to me a woman but yet born with male parts. What I see is, a door that could lead to abuse of the system and I think about the potential victims as to what that cost might be.
Liberal morons like you want only what this person that is "different" wants. Well what about the hundreds of other kids there? If the other kids don't want to be in the restroom or locker room naked with a person with a penis at the same time, then what? Just forget about what all of them want? Do people who have the mentality and bodily features that match it not have rights anymore? Are the mass denied what they want over a single individual? Isn't that how we pick who makes the laws and runs our cities, states, and our country? Who ever the mass vote for wins it.
"Regards, bubba
bubba

Euless, TX

#18 Jun 15, 2013
TerryE wrote:
<quoted text>It is refreshing to be called a "Liberal" once in a while. Usually I'm being called a "Right wing, fascist, neo nazi, redneck" for my advocation of gun rights, or the TEA party, or my belief that we should repeal the income tax and The Federal Reserve. Go back to Tariffs! Disband the IRS! My ancestor, Benjamin Harrison had it right! Keep Tariffs! And keep them high! I'm hardly a liberal about anything, But this! Read my profile and list of recent posts
Maybe because I'm affected by it this I understand what it is and what it is not. So your friend, who's a TS, said she could still have sex as a male? Uh huh. Did she say that she does this on a daily basis! Weekly basis? Monthly basis? How often does she actually have sex with a woman? Has she told you that both ability and desire are greatly diminished? Did she tell you that her physical strength is greatly diminished.
So all a Person has to do is take estrogen and then they can do what? Why don't you try it? Just to prove your point. But be aware
of chemical castration. That's when you've taken too much hormone and there's no turning back. You'll be stranded between the sexes. Neither fish nor fowl! A Eunuch! There's a little more to it than just "All you have to do is...." And that's only one "Complication"! Cancer is another! and don't forget heart attacks, and strokes. Big prices to pay! So go ahead, Knock yourself out! You'll get Manboobs and a fatter ass! But keep your eyes on the prise, access to THE LADIESROOM! WOW!! IDIOT!!
Best regards, Terri
Well, I was following until you called me an ldiot....in capital letters. Lol but that was at the end so I guess it doesn't matter eh? But no, "she" didn't say she got it on lately with a woman. I'm guessing before the multiple estrogen taking. I did not know that about the once the past a certain point part. If that is true, and a person can't go back to being a male with male "urges" then I feel better about it. If the dr and the state makes dam sure they wait until after that point, then yeah, I'm not so reserved on the issue. If this in fact true, then I was indeed ignorant on the subject and I don't mind admitting I was wrong, I like to learn. And I thank you for the insight! I will research this more, and talk to the ts about it. And if you're wrong, "by god" bubba will be back! ;)

“Peace”

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#19 Jun 15, 2013
bubba wrote:
The person in question, has a penis. Regardless of how he feels about being a male, a penis makes you a male.
This subject has been studied for a long time now, here is just a small sample or professional comments:
Gillies and Millard pioneered phalloplasty repairs for soldiers who had been dam-aged in the genital region during World War II. Subsequently applying their skills in the areas of intersex and transsexual surgeries, they wrote in 1957 that:

The physical sex picture does not always bear a fixed relation to the be-haviour pattern shown by an individual. One or other hormone may de-termine an individual's male or female proclivities quite independently of the absence of some of the appropriate physical organs. It may be sug-gested, therefore, that the definition of hermaphroditism should not be confined to those rare individuals with proved testes and ovaries but ex-tended to include all those with indefinite sex attitudes.19
-
Professor Louis Gooren, an endocrinologist and Chair of the only Faculty of Trans-sexualism in the world, a part of the Free University of Amsterdam and its teaching hospital:

It has always been assumed that the sexual differentiation was completed with the formation of the external genitalia. But it is NOT. Since the be-ginning of this century we have known that the brain, too, undergoes a sexual differentiation... We must accept the given fact of sex errors of the body and continue from there. We must create the conditions for successful rehabilitation to the male or female sex as much in cases of transsexualism as in other cases of intersex subject

-
Professor Milton Diamond, Director of the John A Burns School of Medicine, University of Hawaii, has probably done more to research the intricacies of sexual formation and identity than any other single person.
Transsexuals, who I believe are intersexed, have the body and genitals of one sex and the brain of the other making reconciliation of their sexual and gender identities problematic.
bubba wrote:
I don't understand how a state can recognize a male as a female when they have a penis.
That is because you have not gained the knowledge in this subject that many of our law makers have.
bubba wrote:
But to just go to the state dressed up like a girl and taking estrogen and get legally recognized as a female is wrong to me and it seems it could open doors for the system to get played.
speeding when there is no police around is playing the system.
bubba wrote:
Think hypothetically, a man goes on a raping spree, they don't know who it is, he then dresses up like a girl, takes estrogen and goes to state and gets legally known as a female. He would never be caught for his crimes because they would never look for a "woman".
People will go to great links to keep from going to prison for life. And not just that, but I'm sure it could get abused in other ways.
That is quite hypothetical. I donít see criminals lining up for make up classes any time soon. Try living as a woman for a month and then re examine this comment.
bubba wrote:
And at school, you have a penis wanting to go in the bathrooms with other girls. This isn't right.
Again you do not have the knowledge in this matter to understand it. There are many here that will be happy to share educational material with you, if you wish.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#20 Jun 16, 2013
"Bubba" I apologize for calling you an Idiot! I very rarely ever call people names. I believe there's too much name calling on the I-net. As I said, I'm involved so I understand what Transexualism is and is not. I found your fears and concerns to be unsubstantiated. Yet, I know that many people are capable of conjuring up the same phantoms. Worse, law makers will legistlate using the same misguided information as a basis. We are at best, 1% of the population. With numbers like that we have exactly zero political clout. So what do we do when someone sincerely proposes this argument as fact? I don't know! It's exasperating! We have the only medical condition that can be legistlated against!
Regards, Terri
bubba wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I was following until you called me an ldiot....in capital letters. Lol but that was at the end so I guess it doesn't matter eh? But no, "she" didn't say she got it on lately with a woman. I'm guessing before the multiple estrogen taking. I did not know that about the once the past a certain point part. If that is true, and a person can't go back to being a male with male "urges" then I feel better about it. If the dr and the state makes dam sure they wait until after that point, then yeah, I'm not so reserved on the issue. If this in fact true, then I was indeed ignorant on the subject and I don't mind admitting I was wrong, I like to learn. And I thank you for the insight! I will research this more, and talk to the ts about it. And if you're wrong, "by god" bubba will be back! ;)

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