Florissant red light cameras and tickets

Posted in the Breckenridge Hills Forum

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lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#1 May 30, 2010
Recently, I received a ticket in the mail for running a red light for a right turn. In all honesty, wasn't even me driving my car at the time and I was told by multiple people that it is not even truly necessary to pay the tickets because in actuality, there is nothing that can be done to enforce or punish someone for the ticket, considering it cannot be proven it was the primary insurer driving. I was told a couple follow up letters and warnings would come in the mail but these could be ignored.
However, a few days ago, I received a new letter saying if the ticket was not paid there would be a warrant out for my arrest, my license could be suspended, etc, etc... This seems to me to be a new form of dealing with these tickets. Is this because of a lack of people paying or is this how it has always been set up. Even though the fine is so small, it comes down to the principle of things. It was not me driving, cannot be proven that it was me driving, so how can they enforce this rule, especially with arrest? Does anyone know of any information or any way of dealing with these tickets if they aren't the rightful prosecutor and don't deserve the charges or fines? These cameras are becoming utterly ridiculous and simply a form of taking even more money from people that are not committing true crimes.
noco

United States

#2 May 30, 2010
I've got an idea. Don't run red lights. And if you loan your car to someone, make sure you tell them not to run any red lights. I find that the day is more enjoyable when you don't break the law and don't have to look over your shoulder to see if Johnny law is on your tail.
lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#3 May 30, 2010
Thanks for the advice. Extremely helpful.
Furthermore, getting a ticket for a right turn is ridiculous. If you don't stop for 3 seconds or more, even with no traffic, you are likely to get a ticket and would less than likely get pulled over in that situation. But I'm sure you stop completely and count to 3 at right turns consistently. I'll keep watching for Johnny law
Ronald

Florissant, MO

#4 May 31, 2010
I got a letter from my insurance company. They are canceling my insurance due to an accident they claim I had with my car while rolling thru a right turn red light. I wasn't driving my car at the time of the accident. Can I sue them for wrongfully accusing me of being involved in the accident since I am the primary insured driver? This isn't fair. How am I supposed to know who was driving my car when the car had a wreck? Someone told me I didn't have to stop at those red lights. They said as long as I thought it was clear and no one was in front of me, I can do a rolling stop at a right turn red light. Now I'm told if I counted one Mississippi two Mississippi three Mississippi I can make a right turn. But that didn't stop that pickup truck from tearing up my front left fender of my car. Now I got no insurance. Help me Obama help me!
Whats next

AOL

#5 May 31, 2010
Red Light Cameras are a money grab, pure and simple. They disquise as safety issue, but they are really a money grab.

What's next, speed cameras??

Stop sign cameras??

Way too much government in our lives.

All they want, is take, take, take....

Stop trying to balance your budgets on the backs of good people.

Learn to cut your expenses, proportionately to your revenue income levels.

We all have to, you should to.
They are everywhere

AOL

#6 May 31, 2010
I travel by car in lots of places, all over the state, and into many different states.

These Red Light cameras are every where.

And, there are some speed cameras in different states.

Soon to come, Swipe Card Courts, no hassle, no fus, no mus, no long lines. Just step right up and swipe your bar code on the ticket and your debit card and go out and get another ticket.
Legal or not

AOL

#7 May 31, 2010
If the law does not make the tickets enforceable, then the agency should take them all down.

It amounts to extortion. If the agency sends threats, by letter, then that is extortion.
lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#8 May 31, 2010
Topix is a forum for people to come to and ask questions (any question they please). If you have no response that is helpful, then please don't be a douche and keep your opinions to yourself. I'm not asking for a lecture on driving. These red light tickets are a lot of times unfair, and what I am referring to was not a rolling stop and not in the slightest dangerous. If you have half a brain and can operate a motor vehicle correctly, then this is not a problem.
Ronald: I am not saying that "Someone told me I didn't have to stop at those red lights". You are ridiculous for suggesting that.
As I said before, I'm sure both of you have NEVER bended/broken the law before in your life. I am an average person, had a simple question, and it did not merit people that need an attitude adjustment to comment. Thank you both for making sure I will never post a question on this website again in hopes I don't have to deal with people like you. Thanks neighbors.
lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#9 May 31, 2010
Thank you to the last couple people who commented. Glad someone understands my pain, instead of acting as if they would not be upset in this situation and will more than likely receive one of these tickets.
Any respectable judge

AOL

#10 May 31, 2010
Any respectable prosecutor or judge, should a dismiss any and all of these tickets.

The police department should be ashamed that a camera can do their job.

And elected officials in these cities should demand they come down. Representation by intimidation, should not be the rule of the day.
Senator Lemke

AOL

#11 May 31, 2010
Missouri Senator Lemke, from South County, did recently make a statement that he felt that Red Light tickets were wrong, and not enforceable.
He commented, that he would just ignore the ticket. They are not enforceable. He tried to outlaw them during this past legislative session, but the actions failed. Maybe next session.

Isn't it amazing, that we have to pass a state statute to prohibit Red Light cameras, that aren't legal and enforceable in the first place.
Their otta be a law! How assinign
lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#12 May 31, 2010
Exactly, it is a SEPARATE company that puts these cameras up and is about nothing but making money (the profits are split between the company and specific municipality). Obviously if you come to the mayor and throw out an idea that requires no work by them but tons of money, who would say no? I'm so glad to have people that understand my frustration on here finally.
Senator Lembke

AOL

#13 May 31, 2010
check out this link

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-lembke-red-l...

State Senator: Don't Pay Red Light Camera Tickets
He's Pushing a Bill To Make the Cameras Illegal
By Sean Conroy FOX2now.com
9:01 PM CDT, April 29, 2010
Failed in the house

AOL

#14 May 31, 2010
Too bad this failed in the House

http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/politic...

Red-light camera ban moves forward in Missouri Senate
By Tony Messenger
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Email This Post Share this Print this Digg Yahoo! Del.icio.us Facebook Reddit Drudge Google Fark Stumble It!
JEFFERSON CITY — An amendment that would ban red-light cameras in Missouri cities advanced in the state Senate Monday afternoon, after many stops and starts over the past two years. For Sen. Jim Lembke, R-Lemay, the vote was a long-time coming.

Lembke has been proposing such a ban — and many alternative forms of regulating red-light cameras — ever since he came to the Senate last year, but he hasn’t been able to get much support. But a recent Missouri Supreme Court decision finding fault with the red-light cameras in Springfield, Mo., helped convince some of his colleagues that his concerns are valid, Lembke said.

The proposal is a long ways from becoming law. The Senate on Monday attached it to an omnibus transportation bill that has a variety of controversial sections, including a ban on texting and driving. The bill has been referred to a Senate committee that must pass it before the full Senate votes. Then it would go back to the House for another vote.

Still, Lembke was pleased his amendment — which passed 23-8 — has come this far.

“We’ve been going back and forth on the issue of regulation,” Lembke said. The Springfield court decision, he said,“put the issue back on the radar screen.”

The Senate also passed an amendment on the bill proposed by Sen. Tim Green, D-Spanish Lake, that would ban the photo-radar being used in the city of Charlack for speed enforcement on I-170.
Ronald

Saint Louis, MO

#15 May 31, 2010
lauren1954 wrote:
Topix is a forum for people to come to and ask questions (any question they please). If you have no response that is helpful, then please don't be a douche and keep your opinions to yourself. I'm not asking for a lecture on driving. These red light tickets are a lot of times unfair, and what I am referring to was not a rolling stop and not in the slightest dangerous. If you have half a brain and can operate a motor vehicle correctly, then this is not a problem.
Ronald: I am not saying that "Someone told me I didn't have to stop at those red lights". You are ridiculous for suggesting that.
As I said before, I'm sure both of you have NEVER bended/broken the law before in your life. I am an average person, had a simple question, and it did not merit people that need an attitude adjustment to comment. Thank you both for making sure I will never post a question on this website again in hopes I don't have to deal with people like you. Thanks neighbors.
Drive anyway you like and do what you want to do on the road. Run red lights and do whatever you want. You are right! You don't need my opinion or anyones opinion here. If you want approval there are enough here to agree with you. But my dear, you sound like a whinny whiner to me. Oh po me. Why is the government putting up cameras and making me run red lights? You need to be pissed off about personal property tax on a vehicle you paid taxes for every year you own it. Get mad about something thats really unfair.
lauren1954

Florissant, MO

#16 May 31, 2010
Your right, I do have enough people here to agree with me. Take your postings elsewhere. As I said it was a simple question, you obviously didn't have an answer, just a driving lesson.
Dawn1970

Saint Louis, MO

#17 May 31, 2010
Whether it was you or not, you're probably going to have to pay the fine.
Sucks, I know.
You can try to fight it, but if you lose you will have to pay the fine and then go to the person who you lent your car to to reimburse you for the ticket since they were driving the vehicle at the time the picture was taken. If they fail to pay you then you can take them to small claims to get them to pay.
Unfortunately, that is all you can do.
This is one reason I do not lend my car out to anyone other than family. This way I don't get into this type of situation and if I were to get a ticket while they were driving I know they would pay.
Good Luck.

“I am a Pit Bull ”

Since: Aug 08

on the pantleg of opportunity

#18 May 31, 2010
lauren1954 wrote:
However, a few days ago, I received a new letter saying if the ticket was not paid there would be a warrant out for my arrest, my license could be suspended, etc, etc... This seems to me to be a new form of dealing with these tickets. Is this because of a lack of people paying or is this how it has always been set up. Even though the fine is so small, it comes down to the principle of things. It was not me driving, cannot be proven that it was me driving, so how can they enforce this rule, especially with arrest? Does anyone know of any information or any way of dealing with these tickets if they aren't the rightful prosecutor and don't deserve the charges or fines? These cameras are becoming utterly ridiculous and simply a form of taking even more money from people that are not committing true crimes.
I don't know why the owner of the car would be arrested for not paying a ticket. But that's the way most cities who have parking meters deal with multiple fines that go unpaid. A parking ticket is harder to prove who was driving the car, yet in cities like Chicago and New Orleans, they consider the vehicle the offender. In New Orleans, parking tickets are made out to the vehicle tags. When it comes time for renewal, if you have fines you get no new tags. The car can be impounded too.

Red light offenses should be handled like parking tickets. If you're pulled over by the police and the car has fines against it, the car should immediately be impounded. If someone tries to license their vehicle and it has red light tickets due, don't renew the tags until the fine is paid. Simple as that. Parking meters are a money maker, like someone said earlier personal property taxes is a money maker. Radar guns are a money maker, police spotting someone running a red light and they pull them over, that's a money maker. State emissions and safety inspections are a money maker.

But remember the biggest money maker that's connected to traffic violations is the legal firms. These traffic law centers, lawyers and prosecuting attorneys for small Cities even Florissant. How many drunk drivers get off by money grabbing lawyers who put DUI convictions back on the road? The reason lawyers are so much against red light cams is because they can't make money off them like driving 80 in a 60 and getting it chiseled down to a non-moving violation with no points. And what about insurance companies who raise rates if someone has points on their license? More money grabbers?
Complacency will cost

AOL

#19 May 31, 2010
Dawn1970 wrote:
Whether it was you or not, you're probably going to have to pay the fine.
Sucks, I know.
You can try to fight it, but if you lose you will have to pay the fine and then go to the person who you lent your car to to reimburse you for the ticket since they were driving the vehicle at the time the picture was taken. If they fail to pay you then you can take them to small claims to get them to pay.
Unfortunately, that is all you can do.
This is one reason I do not lend my car out to anyone other than family. This way I don't get into this type of situation and if I were to get a ticket while they were driving I know they would pay.
Good Luck.
Complacency will cost you. And they are counting on just that.

They have no legal basis to collect that Red Light fine. If you ignore it, they will hound you.

If you fight it, generally, they will drop or reduce.

Fight back. They count on your complacency. Don't give them the satisfaction.

If enough fight back, maybe they would get rid of these things.
clueless

Saint Louis, MO

#20 May 31, 2010
As usual around here are clueless. Don't pay the ticket. They cannot issue a warrant for your arrest. There was a huge deal made about these tickets when they first were put up and not paying them was the consensus. That is unless you just feel like throwint $100 out the window.

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