Our View: Education reform breaks uni...

Our View: Education reform breaks union mold

There are 12 comments on the San Gabriel Valley Tribune story from Jun 6, 2010, titled Our View: Education reform breaks union mold. In it, San Gabriel Valley Tribune reports that:

The California Teachers Association has got to feel like Humpty Dumpty here as it tries to keep its outdated - last hired, first fired; seniority- only - rules in place.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at San Gabriel Valley Tribune.

KEVIN HOLLINGSWORTH

Palmdale, CA

#1 Jun 7, 2010
Now if we can just abolish tenure....
One of the Answers

Los Angeles, CA

#2 Jun 7, 2010
This level of reform and rejection of the status quo fostered and paid for in huge CTA lobbying efforts and campaign contributions can be the salvation of education in California.

Quality of teaching and student results are the critical factors that are necessary in the performance evaluation of teachers.

Tenure is the next to be removed from the law so that administrators and educational leaders can hire the best teachers and not just those who have been around a long time, although some are experts and should and will be retained.
TEACHER

Ontario, CA

#3 Jun 7, 2010
We need to hold PARENTS accountalbe - not just teachers. It's the poorest kids in the worst schools. Let's cut welfare checks if kids fail classes or tests. No Child Tax Credit if your kid fails classes or tests. And let's exempt Special Education Students and English Language Learners from the curve. They will never be proficient, by definition! There are SO MANY solutions to this problem, but everybody wants to gang up on teachers. Ya, there are too many serving 'on the job retirement' roles, and they need to be dealt with, but putting 'learning' on teachers, is silly. It's the kids who need to come prepared and learn, not the teachers.
Jer

Hesperia, CA

#4 Jun 7, 2010
Yet another poorly-considered attack on the practice of using seniority during times of layoffs. First, economic turmoil, the like of which we are seeing today, has only resulted in teacher layoffs a few times in the past 50 years. Those who are incapable of appreciating the extreme circumstances that have driven us to this point are having a knee-jerk reaction to a rare situation.

Teaching is a civil-service profession. Teachers ultimately report to elected officials - the school board. As in any civil-service position, protections must be maintained to ensure that political pressure is not brought to bear on the employees. The due-process that teachers earn (which people refer to as "tenure") and the seniority system used for determine layoffs in critical times are there to protect the teachers and the public from a spoils system form of government. States and districts removing these protections will be putting them back in a few years after they are bombarded by lawsuits for wrongful termination.

It's become fashionable for cowards to attack the teaching profession. It's easy to criticize teachers for the lack of student achievement because it's politically incorrect for teachers and polticians to tell parents to get off their butts and get involved in their kids' lives. It is odd, however, that so many parents think their own kids' teachers are challenging and effective while condemning teachers in general. You can't have it both ways.

Interesting that you don't see the bozos who attack teacher seniority and due-process attacking the same protections when they are given to city, state, and federal civil servants. Why aren't you attacking the due-proces rights of firefighters, police officers, or caltrans workers? It's probably the ignorant mob-mentality supported by cowardly politicians who see a no-lose political platform in attacking teachers that has made it ok for you to pile on the teachers.

I can't wait to have the ignorant propel us back into the patronage system that has left such an historical blot on the politics of Chicago.
WOW

Donie, TX

#5 Jun 7, 2010
I say fire all of the idiots who write at this paper starting with the oldest and most experienced? What a bunch of pure crap....

Have you ever spent a day in a classroom? This is just more useless drivel from failed politicians and quasi libertarian idiot editorial writers who have now pushed failed educational reform slogan that hasn't worked very well (Every Child Left Behind/Race to the Bottom?). And, now our brilliant polliticians, and our brilliant Walll Street elite, have managed to throw the nation into a depression and largely bankrupted the state....?

Now we have the Hobbesian choice to lay off the most experienced teachers who are paid more, and keep inexperienced teachers becuase they cost less. Isn't that the real reason behind this new "education" "reform"? Well it's certainly typical of the current popular foolishness being pedaled by our award winning politcians and the world's dumbest news media.....

Now that you idiots have decided you want to screw our most experience teachers and screw our kids, what's next? Do any of you idiots know how long it takes to become a successful teacher, how much education, classroom time to develop good teaching strategies? Do you idiots know how many of these inexperienced underpayed "new" teachers even survive the first two years in the teaching "profession"?

More drivel on how to "improve' "education" from the useless eunuchs of the news media......? You're almost as good at this improving education as the useless politicians?
gilman

Covina, CA

#6 Jun 7, 2010
Finally some commons sense from the editorial staff....I'm impressed.
Hogwash

Los Angeles, CA

#7 Jun 8, 2010
You wrote, "The California Teachers Association ... tries to keep its outdated -- last hired, first fired; seniority-only -- rules in place." Such a policy is in place in most businesses -- perhaps even in journalism too?

Beyond this, you suggest that we take the most experienced teachers and fire them, or replace them with the least experienced. Do you not see a problem here?
get it right

Covina, CA

#8 Jun 8, 2010
Hogwash wrote:
You wrote, "The California Teachers Association ... tries to keep its outdated -- last hired, first fired; seniority-only -- rules in place." Such a policy is in place in most businesses -- perhaps even in journalism too?
Beyond this, you suggest that we take the most experienced teachers and fire them, or replace them with the least experienced. Do you not see a problem here?
hmmmm......I think they suggested that keeping a poor performing teacher simply because of seniority was part of the problem. I think they are further suggesting keeping teachers based on performance not length of service, something found in most businesses.
think ahead

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#9 Jun 10, 2010
Students should be taught by the best teachers, regardless of seniority. As a parent, I want the best teacher for my kids and that's not necessarily the oldest or most experienced teacher. If you're thinking about what's best for kids -- it is an easy call. The seniority policy goes.
Jasper LoPicallo

Hesperia, CA

#10 Jun 10, 2010
As a long time teacher and administrator, I know that it's easy for "non-educators" to have all the answers. If we don't use seniority...then what do we use? What is the determination of "good" teacher??? Is it the algebra teacher who gets all the top kids, the overachievers and kids with parental support who scores well on the tests?? Sure, what a great teacher she is. Or is it the teacher who takes a class of Junior High kids who got straight F's, missed or got kicked out of classes, get in trouble, and helps each of those kids realize they need to become productive, educated citizens, WHO DON'T DO WELL UNTIL THEY ARE OUT OF THIS TEACHER'S CLASS FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS??? Then and only then will the kids realize that "the teacher I had in 8th grade was right." Education cannot be measured simply by the answers to a test. It is the skill of the true professional that brings out the best in even the most recalcitrant student. Bloom spoke about the AFFECTIVE DOMAIN. This is the recognition that "ATTITUDE" is important. Good teachers can help the cognitive domain... Great teachers teach in the affective. The results of this may not be able to be measured until the child has matured, is married with kids, and still remembers what that great teacher taught him many years ago. So, come up with some TRUE way to measure a teacher's worth, and you will be a millionaire!!
the new economy

Los Angeles, CA

#11 Jun 10, 2010
The younger teachers want to teach, but can not because there are older teachers who do not want to retire or make space for the new hires. This is blantantly unfair. The quality of teaching depends on the product that is being created....students who know their subjects. Let those who want to work teach! The older staff if they are too old or too tired and can not deal with these students need to move on with their lives!
WOW

Riverside, CA

#12 Jun 10, 2010
Life is unfair? This is often a shock, but mostly to the naive, the young, and to idiots?

So since life is unfair, we should shoot everybody with any experience and/or over the age of 30, who is in the way of the young and inexperienced? What a moron!

You must be one of our politicians, if not, you should think about running, you'll fit right in?

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