Eliot Street Fire
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Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#1 Oct 17, 2013
Oh, what the hell.

Brattleboro is known to have insufficient slumlord fire codes and don’t believe in fire sprinklers?

The state fire code agency is in bed with the property and real-estate people.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#2 Oct 17, 2013
"A couple of years ago, the owner built a pitched roof over the existing roof, and Bucossi said Wednesday’s fire raged between the two constructions.

Didn't the Brooks House have almost the same problem.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#3 Oct 17, 2013
A short in the false ceiling?
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#4 Oct 17, 2013
I am just wondering, who is going to speak to the heroic firefighters and their children who repeatedly risk their lives in preventable fires like this?

Who!

You know this is going to come to a bad ending eventually!

Did they think they lost a fire fighter in the Brooks House?
ECT

Port Huron, MI

#5 Oct 17, 2013
I heard the sirens and people were saying it was the Dompier Electric place that was on fire. I couldn't go down Elliot then as it was blocked off way down the street from the fire
http://www.reformer.com/ci_24329622/17-left-h...
trueliberal

Bennington, VT

#6 Oct 17, 2013
Mike Mulligan wrote:
Oh, what the hell.
Brattleboro is known to have insufficient slumlord fire codes and don’t believe in fire sprinklers?
The state fire code agency is in bed with the property and real-estate people.
That is a bunch of crap. Brattleboro is constantly making landlords update their properties to the fire codes. Why say something as stupid as you did. All new buildings have to have sprinklers. Even single family homes. The employees of the Vermont Division of Fire Safety are a pain in the butt and not in bed with any private landlords.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#7 Oct 17, 2013
Yet big downtown fires happen again and again with many poor renters losing their apartments...many tens of people losing their living quarters permanently.

Were there any problems with fire hydrant pressure?
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#8 Oct 17, 2013
Leahy Introduces Bill Aimed At Reducing Downtown Building Fires
…Initiative Modeled On Vermont Downtown Tax Credit
August 9, 2013
ST. JOHNSBURY, Vt.– Standing on the same block that had been stricken with two fires since 2000, U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy Friday told members of the St. Johnsbury community that he had introduced legislation in the U.S. Senate to help prevent further tragedy. The legislation, inspired by the community’s struggle with three major downtown fires, would incentivize the installation of fire sprinklers and elevators in downtown historic buildings.
Leahy’s bill, the Historic Downtown Preservation and Access Act, creates up to a $50,000 refundable federal tax credit for building owners who install either fire sprinklers or elevators in historic multi-use buildings located in historic downtowns.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#9 Oct 17, 2013
“Since 2000, the federal government has invested more than $30 million into rebuilding burned down buildings in St. Johnsbury, Brattleboro, Hardwick, Enosburg, Springfield, and Wilmington,” said Leahy.“If the sprinkler and elevator credit I propose today had existed then, perhaps the federal government could have saved $29.5 million, the three souls we lost in St. Johnsbury might still be with us, and organizations like Housing Vermont and Rural Edge could focus on building new housing capacity instead of replacing old housing capacity.”
“After the Daniels Block fire devastated Main Street in 2000, RuralEdge successfully turned that catastrophe into a piece of redevelopment on Main Street,” said RuralEdge CEO Merten Bangemann-Johnson.“As responsible community developers, we had to step in, or the site could look exactly like the spot on Main Street that remains vacant after the 2009 fire. But rebuilding after a fire is expensive and takes a lot of time. Upfront investments that preserve our original downtown buildings ensure their productive use and make for the best use of tax payer dollars.”
Vermont’s Downtown Tax Credit program competitively awards tax credits to owners of historic buildings in Vermont’s designated downtowns for rehabilitation work, including the installation of sprinklers and elevators. In late July, Governor Peter Shumlin announced nearly $2 million in these credits, including for the construction or upgrading of 22 sprinkler systems and seven elevators. The program routinely receives many more requests for tax credits than the state can allocate.
“Our historic downtowns are at the core of who we are as Vermonters,” said Vermont Agency of Commerce Secretary Lawrence Miller.“The state’s downtown tax credit program is making significant progress in ensuring our downtowns are in good shape, accessible and safe from devastating fires. However, history shows that without a much larger investment, we will likely lose more of these buildings requiring an even larger investment on the back end.”
St. Johnsbury has suffered three major downtown fires since 2000: the Daniels Block fire in 2000, the Main Street fire in 2009, and the Landry Block fire on Railroad Street in 2012. Leahy said after the Main Street fire, St. Johnsbury Chief Troy Ruggles thanked Leahy for his help rebuilding, but asked him to do something to prevent the fires from happening in the first place.
“After the Daniel’s Block fire, Senator Leahy helped this town rebuild, and I knew he would help us after the Main Street fire,” said Ruggles.“However, if more of our buildings were sprinkled, the reality is we would have to call on Senator Leahy less often, we’d nearly eliminate the risk of death due to fire in our downtown, and the men and women who serve the fire department would be safer. So I asked Senator Leahy what he could do to help me prevent these fires from happening in the first place. This tax credit is a pragmatic and thoughtful solution.”
In 2000, Leahy worked with the town to secure approximately $1 million from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to help the town recover from the Daniels Block Fire. He also secured a federal grant to help with the rebuilding of the Daniels Block.
“If Senator Leahy’s legislation had been law in 2000 and sprinklers had been in the Daniels Block, it would have saved the lives of three young men, the building and prevented the major disruption in the downtown area,” said St. Johnsbury Town Manager John Hall.“And in 2009, maybe the buildings that housed the Convenient One and the St. Johnsbury Pharmacy on Main Street would have taken advantage of the tax credit and we would not have the gaping cellar holes on our historic Main Street.”
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#10 Oct 17, 2013
Basically I don’t think it’s right for politicians to make government pay for safety modernization with private properties owned by rich people...they should get the fire and town authorities to force rich people to update their properties.

...Or the property management firms that are owned by outside and distant property investment businesses and corporations.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#11 Oct 17, 2013
I talked to the neighbor around the Eliot street fire and some fire fighters.

Seems the Eliot Street fire took a amazing and shocking amount of water to put out the 12 hour fire. The fire fighters are shocked with the amount of water they used compared to the size of the building. It took astonishing more amounts of hydrant water than the Brooks House.

How does Brattleboro pressurized their hydrant system? There seems to be hints of low water pressure. The neighbors report the first responders were fumbling around with the front hydrant for a really really long time…like it was dry.

Does the drinking water pond supply the fire hydrant system. How low did this fire draw down this fire fighting pond? Does a fire pump supply the hydrants? They say the fire truck pumps supplied most of water pressure to the fire.Was the fire fighting water capacity limited?

You know it was a near miss. If the winds would have been blowing the right way and more speed….there would have been multiple large tinderbox dwelling involvement. Can you see four or five huge dwellings on fire...then they run out of water or fire pressure?
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#12 Oct 18, 2013
Today:

http://www.reformer.com/localnews/ci_24334196...

He credited the first six responders, under the leadership of Capt. Billy Johnson, from the Brattleboro Central Station, just a few hundred yards from the scene of the fire, with preventing the blaze from burning the building to the ground or spreading to other nearby buildings.

"They initiated a very aggressive initial attack under some very bad conditions," said Bucossi
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#13 Oct 18, 2013
"Bucossi said there was also a serious concern that due to the intensity of the blaze it might spread to nearby wood-frame houses."
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#14 Oct 18, 2013
Really there is no such thing as heroic with town fire service management or a fire fighter entering a dangerous fire engulfed building to save life.

This drama is evil.

A town or fire service is heroic when a fire like this is prevented through attention by the fire service and town intervention…
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#15 Oct 18, 2013
There are saying its electrical again?
trueliberal

Bennington, VT

#16 Oct 18, 2013
Mike Mulligan wrote:
Yet big downtown fires happen again and again with many poor renters losing their apartments...many tens of people losing their living quarters permanently.
Were there any problems with fire hydrant pressure?
Actually fires are quite rare and the occur mainly in buildings with ancient wiring and construction (and we don't even have a clue what caused the Elliot St fire. It was new wiring that caused the Brooks House fire which had sprinklers). What do you suggest we do to these old buildings? All of them have the requisite smoke and co alarms. Exits are up to code. What else should they do Mike?
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#17 Oct 18, 2013
I am trying to fix the bridge!
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#18 Oct 18, 2013
Oh I get it, we value more rich people than poor people. The poor have very little influence over their own lives.

There is no constitutional ideals here of we are all equal under the eyes of god!
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

#19 Oct 18, 2013
The poor and rich face the same fire and death risk!
Burn Baby Burn

Bellows Falls, VT

#20 Oct 18, 2013
I recall how several years ago the Bratt fire dept. stationed on Elliot St. took a while getting to the Wilder building fire- which is only right around the block!
That was due to a stupid woman smoking in bed.

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