Alternative Energy Programs are Taxpayer Rip offs.

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Markiemark

Bennington, VT

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#1
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Read it and weep. It is time for us to abandon the alternative energy fantasy.

http://www.reformer.com/opinion/ci_23111138/r...
Markiemark

Bennington, VT

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#2
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Not to mention that ground mounted solar systems and ridge line wind mills are ugly and a detriment to Vermont's long standing program to preserve esthetics.
I Know More Than You

Concord, NH

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#3
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Markiemark aka FoxNews Idiot wrote:
Read it and weep. It is time for us to abandon the alternative energy fantasy.
http://www.reformer.com/opinion/ci_23111138/r...
You know an article is full of shiat when I am forced to agree with a rebuttal from John Greenberg (except for his Price-Anderson gibberish.)

Not surprised ignorant teabaggers like you lack critical thinking skills.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

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#4
Apr 26, 2013
 

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So they use taxpayer subsidies that bring on uncompetitive, really expensive and mandated electricity that jacks electricity to all of us.
Joe

Chester, VT

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#5
Apr 26, 2013
 

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why are the systems so exspensive, it takes lots of energy to make them and transport them and install them.

But what the hell if we can get 30% off from federal tax breaks and more money from the state and never have to pay electirc bills again why not ? get one of those coal burning cars or a nuke car and don't have to pay gas tax either.

only the little people pay taxes.

spend $20,000 get $8,000 in tax breaks
Net cost $12,000
If it kills a $100 a month electric bill it's like make 10% on the investment.
The higher electric bills go the bigger the return on investment.
Markiemark

Bennington, VT

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#6
Apr 26, 2013
 

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I Know More Than You wrote:
<quoted text>
You know an article is full of shiat when I am forced to agree with a rebuttal from John Greenberg (except for his Price-Anderson gibberish.)
Not surprised ignorant teabaggers like you lack critical thinking skills.
When was the last time you worked on the financing of a solar or wing project?

You keep on saying shiat like that but then you never produce facts and figures to back up what you are saying. Why don't you use your analytical skills to produce the arguments that disprove what he says in his article. If you can that is.

I have done an analysis of solar and wind. Except for small home hot water projects, without the tax credits no one would be doing solar and wind because it doesn't work out finacially. That is an admission that almost everyone in the solar and wind business readily agrees with. So the next question is, what interest does the taxpayer have in supporting a losing industry.
Markiemark

Bennington, VT

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#7
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Joe wrote:
why are the systems so exspensive, it takes lots of energy to make them and transport them and install them.
But what the hell if we can get 30% off from federal tax breaks and more money from the state and never have to pay electirc bills again why not ? get one of those coal burning cars or a nuke car and don't have to pay gas tax either.
only the little people pay taxes.
spend $20,000 get $8,000 in tax breaks
Net cost $12,000
If it kills a $100 a month electric bill it's like make 10% on the investment.
The higher electric bills go the bigger the return on investment.
It would take much more than $30k to save $100 a month. The last calcualtion I saw said it would take 22 years to get your money back and then the equipment would all have to be replaced and you would start all over.
Markiemark

Bennington, VT

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#8
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Mike Mulligan wrote:
So they use taxpayer subsidies that bring on uncompetitive, really expensive and mandated electricity that jacks electricity to all of us.
Under the SPEED program in Vermont the average home will pay $15/mo. extra to subsidize the alternative energy programs being promoted by the State. The industry has always opposed it because they know it is a big time loser for questionable benefits. So to make sure the producers didn't get burned the legislature allows them to charge everyone more to pay for the state mandated alternative energy. It is a hidden tax no matter how you slice it and it is regressive to boot.
Joe

Chester, VT

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#9
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Markiemark wrote:
<quoted text>
When was the last time you worked on the financing of a solar or wing project?
You keep on saying shiat like that but then you never produce facts and figures to back up what you are saying. Why don't you use your analytical skills to produce the arguments that disprove what he says in his article. If you can that is.
I have done an analysis of solar and wind. Except for small home hot water projects, without the tax credits no one would be doing solar and wind because it doesn't work out finacially. That is an admission that almost everyone in the solar and wind business readily agrees with. So the next question is, what interest does the taxpayer have in supporting a losing industry.
The theory is if the government gives tax breaks and large scale production gets going the cost of them will drop a real lot because innovation will happen.

How much energy does it take to make a system ?
How much energy will it produce ?
Will making it ever recoop the energy used to make it ?

Mass production of things like cars and computers made the price drop. The price of solar systems will only drop if somebody figures out how to make them using way less energy.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solarpowersyste...

the master control unit cost as much as the panels. When the prices of the inverters dives than they might be getting someplace.
Joe

Chester, VT

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#10
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Markiemark wrote:
<quoted text>
It would take much more than $30k to save $100 a month. The last calcualtion I saw said it would take 22 years to get your money back and then the equipment would all have to be replaced and you would start all over.
you need to do better than get your money back, return on investment is required. Might as well just invest the $30,000 someplace else and pay the electric bill using the interest or dividend or capitol gains and after 20 years still have the $30,000.

The cost of capitol always comes into play.

Hiring somebody to install the system is going to increase the cost a lot.
Twenty four hour days

Stowe, VT

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#11
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
The theory is if the government gives tax breaks and large scale production gets going the cost of them will drop a real lot because innovation will happen.
How much energy does it take to make a system ?
How much energy will it produce ?
Will making it ever recoop the energy used to make it ?
Mass production of things like cars and computers made the price drop. The price of solar systems will only drop if somebody figures out how to make them using way less energy.
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solarpowersyste...
the master control unit cost as much as the panels. When the prices of the inverters dives than they might be getting someplace.
If cars operated at capacity under 25% like industrial wind, would you call them a good deal?
I Know More Than You

Concord, NH

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#12
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Markiemark aka FoxNews Idiot wrote:
It would take much more than $30k to save $100 a month. The last calcualtion I saw said it would take 22 years to get your money back and then the equipment would all have to be replaced and you would start all over.
Calculation you "saw". I thought you performed them? Caught you in yet another lie. <yawn>

$31K will get you a 15kW DIY system. This will give you ~1550 kWhr/month around here. Caught you in another lie. <yawn>

LOL at replacing all the equipment after 22 years. Another lie.

Your stupidity never ends, if only we could harness it to generate power.
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

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#13
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Markiemark wrote:
<quoted text>
Under the SPEED program in Vermont the average home will pay $15/mo. extra to subsidize the alternative energy programs being promoted by the State. The industry has always opposed it because they know it is a big time loser for questionable benefits. So to make sure the producers didn't get burned the legislature allows them to charge everyone more to pay for the state mandated alternative energy. It is a hidden tax no matter how you slice it and it is regressive to boot.
It is crazy...
Black Coffee

Burlington, VT

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#14
Apr 26, 2013
 

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People forget that the reason for electricity is so we can use it when we want to. I won't be washing clothes at two in the morning.
I Know More Than You

Concord, NH

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#15
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Black Coffee wrote:
People forget that the reason for electricity is so we can use it when we want to. I won't be washing clothes at two in the morning.
Thanks for your "insight" moron.
Joe

Chester, VT

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#16
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Twenty four hour days wrote:
<quoted text>If cars operated at capacity under 25% like industrial wind, would you call them a good deal?
the typical car seats 5 and has 1 person in it so is running at 20% capacity
Black Coffee

Burlington, VT

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#17
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
the typical car seats 5 and has 1 person in it so is running at 20% capacity
Don't you look silly now.

Generators with relatively low fuel costs are usually operated to supply baseload power, and typically have average annual capacity factors of 0.70 or more. Generators with lower capacity factors may indicate they are in operation during peak demand periods and/or have high fuel costs, or their operation depends on the availability of the energy source, such as hydro, solar, and wind energy.
I Know More Than You

Concord, NH

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#18
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Black Coffee wrote:
Don't you look silly now.
Generators with relatively low fuel costs are usually operated to supply baseload power, and typically have average annual capacity factors of 0.70 or more. Generators with lower capacity factors may indicate they are in operation during peak demand periods and/or have high fuel costs, or their operation depends on the availability of the energy source, such as hydro, solar, and wind energy.
No, you still look like an idiot.
Black Coffee

Burlington, VT

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#19
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Joe thinks he has everyone by the hairs, but he is nothing but a populationist throwback from the 70's
Mike Mulligan

Brattleboro, VT

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#20
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Idiots:

Expensive "hydro, solar, and wind energy", especially wind...generally because of subsidies, federal and state mandates, crowd out the low cost producers. Makes the low cost producers financially not competitive...

The most expensive electricity they can stiff to the consumers makes them the most profitable independent of choice.

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