Bill Proposes Consultation Session Before Abortion

State Sen. Gordon Howie of Rapid City is among the sponsors of a bill to require such a meeting a day before an abortion in the city where the operation is scheduled.

[Cpetr13]

First of all, I couldn't even find this story on KELO's site, which is a hot mess.

This just sounds like the standard harassment intended to keep women from getting abortions. There is no other minor procedure that requires a patient to have a special "consultation" a day ahead of time. You don't need such a meeting before having cancer surgery, for god's sake.

[z3ncat]

Cpetr13 wrote:

First of all, I couldn't even find this story on KELO's site, which is a hot mess.
This just sounds like the standard harassment intended to keep women from getting abortions. There is no other minor procedure that requires a patient to have a special "consultation" a day ahead of time. You don't need such a meeting before having cancer surgery, for god's sake.

Exactly. Laws like this - mandated waiting periods, mandated ultrasounds, mandated consultations, mandated second opinions - serve one purpose and one purpose only: to make it more difficult for women to obtain the safe, legal abortion they have a right to. It hits lower-income women especially hard - when a woman can barely afford to take off one day to get the abortion itself, requiring her to take even MORE time off and spend MORE money makes getting the abortion impossible.

[olio]

z3ncat wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly. Laws like this - mandated waiting periods, mandated ultrasounds, mandated consultations, mandated second opinions - serve one purpose and one purpose only: to make it more difficult for women to obtain the safe, legal abortion they have a right to. It hits lower-income women especially hard - when a woman can barely afford to take off one day to get the abortion itself, requiring her to take even MORE time off and spend MORE money makes getting the abortion impossible.

I agree. But just wait, some nitwit will be along shortly to proclaim some half-baked notion about the harmlessness of this harassment as the ultimate truth.

[Private Citizen]

Government cannot maintain the nations infrastructure, cannot maintain the borders, cannot keep track of and enforce existing laws, yet proposes to write new laws to further the cause of "BIG BROTHER HOOD". Abortion. Smoking. Phony taxes and fees to finance political power trips. Bah Humbug.

[Indian Joe]

Republican are suppose to stand for individual freedom and individual rights. Let us live our own lives and make our own decisions.

Then to get the religious vote the Republicans use the abortion card.

If you don't believe or want to have an abortion then don't that is your individual right. Leave my rights alone.

Republicans talk with forked tongue.

[mfirebrand1]

It's not your right to kill another human being.and your body is seperate from the baby's body.

[chantlaura]

You can't go to Wal-Mart to get your ears pierced without signing a consent form that demonstrates you are aware you could get an infection and your ear fall off, or you could die.

You go to the doctor for any elective surgery, you go in, have a consult, and go BACK for the procedure. This allows you to give adequate consideration to your decision and the possible consequences (again, you're required to sign a consent form outlining risks of the procedure).

Only in abortion is such a consent, or a waiting period for reflection, disallowed by law.

And why? I can only presume it is because the money-grubbing abortion services businesspeople are afraid they'll lose business if a woman has a chance to give due consideration to the ramifications of her "choice."

Abortion discriminates against women in the worst possible way - treats us like a bunch of ninnies who have to be lied to, have to be "protected" from knowing the truth about our conditions and the development of our babies.

All so the clinic owners can turn a buck over a woman's crisis and heartache.

[53cammy]

chantlaura wrote:

Abortion discriminates against women in the worst possible way - treats us like a bunch of ninnies who have to be lied to, have to be "protected" from knowing the truth about our conditions and the development of our babies.

With the information available online these days, I believe a woman who is considering abortion will have the facts and know exactly what she is doing before she even looks in the phone book to find a clinic.

In the end, however, a woman who truly wants an abortion will have one regardless of the counseling she receives. Counseling does not take away a woman's right to choose, and as long as abortion remains a legal and safe option, then I am okay with it. Besides, is it really a "bad" idea to meet with the doctor who will be preforming your abortion the next day? It might even make the woman more comfortable with her decision.

[Cpetr13]

If it is separate, then there is no problem removing it to live its own little separate life, now is there?

mfirebrand1 wrote:

It's not your right to kill another human being.and your body is seperate from the baby's body.

[Cpetr13]

1) Women who have abortions also sign medical waivers.

2) You may well have an elective procedure the same day as you decide to have it done; usually it has to do with scheduling. And it is not legally mandated to wait a day. Your procedure may be delayed because it requires you to be completely put out; usually they will ask that you fast for 12 hours for that reason. Abortions in the first and second trimesters do not require that level of anesthesia.

3) Unlike many elective procedures, pregnancy is obviously time-sensitive, and it is always better to do them as early as is possible.

4) YOU are treating women like idiots who cannot make a decision without some nebulous "reflection time." Most women come to the clinic ready to abort. For most women it really isn't all that difficult a decision--abort or have a baby.

5) No one is taking advantage of women here; the women don't want to be pregnant, and the doctors terminate the pregnancy. YOU have personal issues, and that's fine, but no other woman needs to care what you think of their medical choices.

chantlaura wrote:

You can't go to Wal-Mart to get your ears pierced without signing a consent form that demonstrates you are aware you could get an infection and your ear fall off, or you could die.
You go to the doctor for any elective surgery, you go in, have a consult, and go BACK for the procedure. This allows you to give adequate consideration to your decision and the possible consequences (again, you're required to sign a consent form outlining risks of the procedure).
Only in abortion is such a consent, or a waiting period for reflection, disallowed by law.
And why? I can only presume it is because the money-grubbing abortion services businesspeople are afraid they'll lose business if a woman has a chance to give due consideration to the ramifications of her "choice."
Abortion discriminates against women in the worst possible way - treats us like a bunch of ninnies who have to be lied to, have to be "protected" from knowing the truth about our conditions and the development of our babies.
All so the clinic owners can turn a buck over a woman's crisis and heartache.

[Cpetr13]

There is no problem with meeting a doctor in advance; the only issue is legally mandating this meeting and the waiting period.

53cammy wrote:

<quoted text>
With the information available online these days, I believe a woman who is considering abortion will have the facts and know exactly what she is doing before she even looks in the phone book to find a clinic.
In the end, however, a woman who truly wants an abortion will have one regardless of the counseling she receives. Counseling does not take away a woman's right to choose, and as long as abortion remains a legal and safe option, then I am okay with it. Besides, is it really a "bad" idea to meet with the doctor who will be preforming your abortion the next day? It might even make the woman more comfortable with her decision.

[chantlaura]

With a private physician, that might be the case (informed consent, full discussion, etc.) - and you also have better after-care (one hopes) - but with the clinic scenario, it's a revolving door, conveyor-belt kind of mentality. And no follow-up. Just so they can get the poor woman's money...

[MyUterusIsMine]

mfirebrand1 wrote:

It's not your right to kill another human being.and your body is seperate from the baby's body.

Once the baby is born yes...until then the fetus is living inside of a womans body attached to her...you can hardly call that separate.

[MyUterusIsMine]

chantlaura wrote:

With a private physician, that might be the case (informed consent, full discussion, etc.)- and you also have better after-care (one hopes)- but with the clinic scenario, it's a revolving door, conveyor-belt kind of mentality. And no follow-up. Just so they can get the poor woman's money...

How do you know? Have you had an abortion?

[chantlaura]

By the grace of God, when I would have done, I didn't become pregnant. No, I haven't had an abortion. But that hasn't prevented my learning from the experiences of others, or from reading, or asking good questions, and keeping my eyes open.

Abortion clinics are in it for the money. They have no high moral ground in preserving women's "rights," only their right to turn a healthy profit. Most laws now serve only to protect that "right" to the profit, under the guise of securing women's rights.

[DCLawDawgg666]

<<<It's not your right to kill another human being.>>

Killing human beings is illegal, however, a fetus doesn't become a "being" until it is born... to be a "being" you have to be a person....that's the law...

<<<and your body is seperate from the baby's body.>>

1) A fetus isn't a baby...

2) as long as it feeds off of the woman's bodily organs for life support, it isn't separate...

a fetus has a parasitic relationship with the woman... nobody can force a woman to provide life support for something feeding off her body!

[DCLawDawgg666]

<<By the grace of God, when I would have done, I didn't become pregnant.>>

Your god is imaginary....

<<<No, I haven't had an abortion. But that hasn't prevented my learning from the experiences of others, or from reading, or asking good questions, and keeping my eyes open.>>

your eyes are open only to RTL propaganda websites...

<<<Abortion clinics are in it for the money.>>

all medical providers are in it for the money.. you go to the doctor, you pay him, right? Or do you use your Medicaid card? In that case, I'm paying him...

<<<They have no high moral ground in preserving women's "rights," only their right to turn a healthy profit.>>

Planned Parenthood describes itself as "the nation's leading sexual and reproductive health care advocate and provider."

In 2007, contraception constituted 36% of total services, STI/STD testing and treatment constituted 31%, cancer testing and screening constituted 17%; other women's health services, including pregnancy, prenatal, midlife, and infertility were 11%, and approximately 3% of total services involved surgical and medical abortions.

<<<Most laws now serve only to protect that "right" to the profit, under the guise of securing women's rights.>>

No... the right to make money has nothing to do with a person's rights to medical privacy and the right to choose what is best for them....

You should stop lying about abortion because your god and jebus both hate liars!

[chantlaura]

But the baby's body IS a separate body! Connected to mine, yes, but separate and distinct from the moment of conception - separate organs, separate personality...

I am afraid you are so closed-minded to this reality because you are terrified of the consequence of being wrong.

On the other hand, if we were wrong, we'd only look very silly and sentimental.

Where do you stand on "animal rights," by the way?

[Cpetr13]

It's the same way for any clinic with a medical concentration, be it speech therapy, abortion, or foot care.

You think that just going to your family physician automatically gives you fully informed consent? Sorry, but that is not the case. In ALL medical scenarios, the patient is advised of the medical risks of any procedure. They do not go into philosophical or religious reasoning because they are not philosophers or theologians and are not qualified to discuss them. That doesn't mean that the patient isn't free to ask any question they want, and have the doctor answer it if they are able.

In a clinical setting--or even a full hospital setting--the purpose is give the treatment, make sure the patient recovers appropriately, an go on to the next patient. That is WHY you should have a private physician to follow your health concerns. Otherwise all doctors would work for hospitals to begin with; it's a helluva lot cheaper.

Follow-up? What do you want them to do, check every three weeks to see if they are still pregnant? When I got out of the hospital for pneumonia, I didn't have follow-up visits; there was no need for them.

chantlaura wrote:

With a private physician, that might be the case (informed consent, full discussion, etc.)- and you also have better after-care (one hopes)- but with the clinic scenario, it's a revolving door, conveyor-belt kind of mentality. And no follow-up. Just so they can get the poor woman's money...

[Cpetr13]

Chicky-babe, I'm going to let you in on teh great secret of medicine:

They are ALL in it for the money to some extent. Do you have any idea how much it costs to go to medical school and then build up a practice or clinic? Most doctors in private practice can easily rack up a million bucks in debt before seeing their first patient. That's why most start out in an established clinic or practice to begin with.

The doctor who cures you of cancer is looking at the bottom line just like one who performs and abortion, implants a tympanic tube, or treats your kid for pneumonia. They have no choice. And they aren't there to live up to your moral standards; many would consider that you dont' live up to theirs.

Women's rights exist regardless of whether anyone makes money--PP does perform abortions for free if the woman cannot pay, or severely reduces its charges.

chantlaura wrote:

By the grace of God, when I would have done, I didn't become pregnant. No, I haven't had an abortion. But that hasn't prevented my learning from the experiences of others, or from reading, or asking good questions, and keeping my eyes open.
Abortion clinics are in it for the money. They have no high moral ground in preserving women's "rights," only their right to turn a healthy profit. Most laws now serve only to protect that "right" to the profit, under the guise of securing women's rights.