Jobs key, but Minnesota gubernatorial...

Jobs key, but Minnesota gubernatorial candidates differ on creating...

There are 62 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Aug 17, 2010, titled Jobs key, but Minnesota gubernatorial candidates differ on creating.... In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Minnesota's three leading candidates for governor outlined competing visions for how to create jobs during a debate here Tuesday before some of the state's business leaders.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

Great American Debate

Fargo, ND

#45 Aug 18, 2010
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Mark Dayton was a teacher for 1 year and only because he was dodging the draft. Yes he is a coward.
So did Bush, but that didn't stop him from running, being elected, and serving two terms.

Look, Dayton is right about this, tax cuts (which businesses have been receiving from Pawlenty) has not led to any long term job growth. In fact, the best job growth we've had has come from Obama's federal stimulus.

Now, having said that, increasing taxes won't bring back jobs either (yep, I said it, and I'm not changing it). But, it will help curtail our state's budget problems, which, because we are constitutionally barred from having, is our number one priority.

Now, I've heard Emmer keep saying the economy is the key issue of this year's election. But that's only if you are running against Obama. Our state can not have a deficit (its a constitutional mandate), and we are projected to have one once one of these guys is elected - so that truly is the 1st issue. Jobs are 2nd.
Sam

Saint Paul, MN

#46 Aug 18, 2010
IrishMN wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so wrong. Mr. Dayton was a school teacher. He has been elected to state office and national office before. His foundations employ hundreds and are well known for helping those that are in need.
As for the personal issues you bring up, I think this shows his character and ability to overcome adversity. He has faced down the demons and still is charging ahead full steam.
By far, Mr. Dayton is the most intelligent and articulate person running for Governor. And the most deserving because he cares for all Minnesotans, not just the ones that are rich.
I want my Governor to make sure the rich are not able to continue stealing money from the poor, and he needs to take care of those in need. Mr. Dayton is the only one committed to that task.
What are the names of his foundations? Where are they located? How many are employed by each and in what capacity?
Great American Debate

Fargo, ND

#47 Aug 18, 2010
JP - St Paul wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Knowledge is power. And we are losing our post secondary education advantage over other western nations, India, and China. Education alone will not solve all of our problems. But new jobs have to come from innovation. The jobs we lost to China are not coming back. We need to come up with new products and services that the rest of the world needs. Educations will drive that creativity, engineering, and marketing of American innovation.
And you are right that I am certain there are still places in our education where we can reduce costs. Health coverage and transportation costs in education are way too high.
You are correct about a lot of things, namely the jobs that went to China are not coming back, we are losing our post secondary advantage, and education can drive innovation far more efficiently than tax cuts.

There are a lot of costs to education, but here are what I consider the top 5 problems:

1) Students from Minneapolis know they can not compete with students from Wayzata. There is just too much decentralization and everybody knows which kids are more likely to succeed and which ones are not. For student morale, it would be better if those barriers were broken.

2) Classroom sizes for the most struggling students are too large, particularly for boys. It would be better if students were in classrooms with about 10-15 students, and for boys to be the minority of the students in those classrooms.

3) We just don't have a 21st century model. Our schools still function on ag time, September - May, 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. even though ag has become so technology advanced that they are not even on ag time any more. Schools are trying to get students computer skills that we don't really tell them why the applications are important. Besides that, command of a language is the key skill needed in this 21st economy - one's ability to sell, to write persuasively, to package things creatively. We now need math and science to solve energy problems and to develop other new products. Where is that focus?

4) We've lost the right and the balls to make parents accountable for their kids' education. If a kid has parents that are not paying attention to what the kids are doing in school, then the kid deserves new parents. Public schools have to find a way to charge parents a fee each time their child fails a test or disrupts the class and has to be sent to the principal's office. This is the only way to get through to parents. It is not okay to put it all on teachers when Johnny knows his mom and dad are not going to punish him for his malfeasance.

5) Too much of the education debate centers on money and teachers because this group of people gets politicians elected, and this group of people becomes the scapegoat for getting politicians elected. The truth is Republicans, Democrats, and the teachers' unions are not serious about helping children succeed in the 21st century. They all care about getting elected, and so the debate goes round and round and round, with no end in sight, each of us grabbing our side of two faced argument instead of really analyzing the problems and addressing each one simultaneously.
Great American Debate

Fargo, ND

#48 Aug 18, 2010
Soothsayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start out with something easy, the working poor pay virtually zero income tax. If we keep treat businesses as the enemy, we're gonna end up like california. How many jobs have you been offered from a poor person? Your judgement regarding dayton's intellectual capacity is troubling, especially if you're serious! He is a trust fund baby, who has been handed everything in life. He is the prototypical limousine liberal. The only true adversity that he's faced was self induced. He is a coward, he proved it while a US senator. The only mechanism that he can use to become is to foster the class envy issue. His suit is as empty as his head.
First, everybody pays something in income taxes (ever been a college student before whose parents pay for nothing at all?), so to suggest the poor doesn't is to be untruthful.

Second, businesses are run by human beings. The last time I checked, human beings drive along state streets, use state water and power, enjoy state's airport and parks, and need state snow removal services. The larger the business, the more the drain on state resources for the business's own objectives. To suggest that they should get a break from all this because they provide jobs is too one-sided.

Third, businesses can not survive or make a buck without labor. Ever ask yourself how many workers make General Mills' Cereal? I've got news for you, the CEO of General Mills ain't doing it.

And since when did we suggest the common man doesn't work hard? The average work week is 40 hours, but several common men and women put in more than that. They love their craft and they don't mind doing it for the big bad boss man. But, stepping on them, which is what you're suggesting, has been done before in American history, and that spawned the U.S. Labor Movement. If everybody paid in a little extra, we could get this state rocking again.
Tom Do Her

Monroe, LA

#49 Aug 18, 2010
K-12 per pupil cost of $25,000 breaking the country’s budget

When you put the education costs per pupil in perspective not only are there big differences between states, but the public and private sectors glean unexpected results.

The Cato Institute found public schools can be 93 percent more expensive than private schools. They contend the public school districts are anything but transparent and this creative accounting lends itself to muddy decision making by citizens within a state and district.

"A sobering 27 cents of every dollar collected at the state and local level is consumed by the government K-12 education system," the Cato study reveals.

When the country begun its budget process for the 2010 school year they were collectively short by $158 billion. Now that America is in the middle of a lingering recession school districts and parents have some serious issues to contend with- raise taxes or cut services. The news is even more depressing as the unemployment and housing prices remain stagnant leaving less funds for public schools.

The Los Angeles, California Metro K-12 schools "average real per-pupil spending of $19,000 a stunning 90 percent higher than the $10,000 the districts claim to spend. In addition, real public school spending is 127 percent higher than the estimated median private school spending of $8, 400," Cato’s report stated. The report also claims the figure is actually around the $24,000 per pupil when you add all the real costs to operate a business – salary, operating expenses, health care, pensions and school supplies.

Another significant issue the Los Angeles Unified School District's Robert F. Kennedy school complex has to deal with is the state-of-the-art high school was supposed to cost $309 million. However the price tag is reaching past the $578 million mark.



http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Diego-Cou...



.

Great American Debate

Fargo, ND

#50 Aug 18, 2010
Tom Do Her wrote:
K-12 per pupil cost of $25,000 breaking the country’s budget
When you put the education costs per pupil in perspective not only are there big differences between states, but the public and private sectors glean unexpected results.
The Cato Institute found public schools can be 93 percent more expensive than private schools. They contend the public school districts are anything but transparent and this creative accounting lends itself to muddy decision making by citizens within a state and district.
"A sobering 27 cents of every dollar collected at the state and local level is consumed by the government K-12 education system," the Cato study reveals.
When the country begun its budget process for the 2010 school year they were collectively short by $158 billion. Now that America is in the middle of a lingering recession school districts and parents have some serious issues to contend with- raise taxes or cut services. The news is even more depressing as the unemployment and housing prices remain stagnant leaving less funds for public schools.
The Los Angeles, California Metro K-12 schools "average real per-pupil spending of $19,000 a stunning 90 percent higher than the $10,000 the districts claim to spend. In addition, real public school spending is 127 percent higher than the estimated median private school spending of $8, 400," Cato’s report stated. The report also claims the figure is actually around the $24,000 per pupil when you add all the real costs to operate a business – salary, operating expenses, health care, pensions and school supplies.
Another significant issue the Los Angeles Unified School District's Robert F. Kennedy school complex has to deal with is the state-of-the-art high school was supposed to cost $309 million. However the price tag is reaching past the $578 million mark.
http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Diego-Cou...
.
This post illustrates my point - while conservatives continue to try to make cost of schools the issue, they completely ignore the actual problems affecting the students that are having trouble while stirring people up to vote for them.$19,000 per pupil is less, mind you less, than the actual per pupil tuition for Minnesota's St Paul Academy for 2010-2011 (K-5 is $22,040; 6-8 is $23,220, and 9-12 is $24, 180). And the cost of living is higher in California than it is in Minnesota. What, public school kids aren't supposed to get the same kind of education as private school kids? Is that what you're saying?
Lisping Narcissist

United States

#51 Aug 18, 2010
Not one more cent for the ineffective, corrupt public schools and the flunkies of their unions.
Really

Saint Paul, MN

#53 Aug 18, 2010
if it is reported by salisbury it is slanted for democrats. the jobs that dayton wants are government union jobs and salisbury is a union slug from the word go.hey salisbury why do you not get e real job act like a reporter ask the democrats where they are going to cut spending?
you are a hack and a poor excuse for a "reporter"
Porkulus

Minneapolis, MN

#55 Aug 18, 2010
Signs of the Stimulus (one sign =$10,000)


As the midterm election season approaches, new road signs are popping up everywhere – millions of dollars worth of signs touting "The American Reinvestment and Recovery Act" and reminding passers-by that the program is "Putting America Back to Work."

On the road leading to Dulles Airport outside Washington, DC there's a 10' x 11' road sign touting a runway improvement project funded by the federal stimulus. The project cost nearly $15 million and has created 17 jobs, according to recovery.gov .

However, there's another number that caught the eye of ABC News:$10,000. That's how much money the Washington Airports Authority tells ABC News it spent to make and install the sign – a single sign – announcing that the project is "Funded by The American Reinvestment and Recovery Act" and is "Putting America Back to Work." The money for the sign was taken out of the budget for the runway improvement project.

ABC News has reached out to a number of states about spending on stimulus signs and learned the state of Illinois has spent $650,000 on about 950 signs and Pennsylvania has spent $157,000 on 70 signs. Other states, like Virginia , Vermont , and Arizona do not sanction any signs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/signs-stimulus...



----------

" this is a big F'n deal !!! " -Joe Biteme


Porkulus

Minneapolis, MN

#56 Aug 18, 2010
Freedom Lover wrote:
<quoted text>WHATEVER DO YOU MEAN??? Look at how robustly Detroit is, umm, oh, cancel this.
Detroit: The Triumph of Progressive Public Policy

http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx...

Imagine a city where all the major economic planks of the statist or "progressive" platform have been enacted:

* A "living wage" ordinance, far above the federal minimum wage, for all public employees and private contractors.

* A school system that spends significantly more per pupil than the national average.

* A powerful school employee union that militantly defends the exceptional pay, benefits and job security it has won for its members.

* A powerful government employee union that does the same for its members.

* A tax system that aggressively redistributes income from businesses and the wealthy to the poor and to government bureaucracies.

Would this be a shining city on a hill, exciting the admiration of all? We don't have to guess, because there is such a city : Detroit

Detroit has been dubbed "the most liberal city in America" and each of these "progressive" policies are alive and well there. How have they worked out?

In 1950, Detroit was the wealthiest city in America on a per capita income basis. Today, the Census Bureau reports that it is the nation's 2nd poorest major city, just "edging out" Cleveland.

Could it be pure coincidence that the decline occurred over the same period in which union power, the city government bureaucracy, taxes and business regulations all multiplied? While correlation is not causation, it is striking that the decline in per capita income is exactly what classical economists predict would occur when wage controls are imposed and taxes are increased.

Specifically, "price theory" predicts that artificially high business costs caused by excessive regulation and above-market labor compensation rates imposed by so-called "living wages" will lead to an increase in unemployment. Detroit's minimum wage is a whopping $7.40 an hour, more than $2 above the federal minimum wage when it was enacted; and pressure groups are pushing for more. Additionally, any company contracting with the city must pay its employees $8.23 an hour if they offer benefits or $10.28 an hour if they do not offer benefits.
speedy

United States

#57 Aug 18, 2010
Great American Debate wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct about a lot of things, namely the jobs that went to China are not coming back, we are losing our post secondary advantage, and education can drive innovation far more efficiently than tax cuts.
There are a lot of costs to education, but here are what I consider the top 5 problems:
1) Students from Minneapolis know they can not compete with students from Wayzata. There is just too much decentralization and everybody knows which kids are more likely to succeed and which ones are not. For student morale, it would be better if those barriers were broken.
2) Classroom sizes for the most struggling students are too large, particularly for boys. It would be better if students were in classrooms with about 10-15 students, and for boys to be the minority of the students in those classrooms.
3) We just don't have a 21st century model. Our schools still function on ag time, September - May, 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. even though ag has become so technology advanced that they are not even on ag time any more. Schools are trying to get students computer skills that we don't really tell them why the applications are important. Besides that, command of a language is the key skill needed in this 21st economy - one's ability to sell, to write persuasively, to package things creatively. We now need math and science to solve energy problems and to develop other new products. Where is that focus?
4) We've lost the right and the balls to make parents accountable for their kids' education. If a kid has parents that are not paying attention to what the kids are doing in school, then the kid deserves new parents. Public schools have to find a way to charge parents a fee each time their child fails a test or disrupts the class and has to be sent to the principal's office. This is the only way to get through to parents. It is not okay to put it all on teachers when Johnny knows his mom and dad are not going to punish him for his malfeasance.
5) Too much of the education debate centers on money and teachers because this group of people gets politicians elected, and this group of people becomes the scapegoat for getting politicians elected. The truth is Republicans, Democrats, and the teachers' unions are not serious about helping children succeed in the 21st century. They all care about getting elected, and so the debate goes round and round and round, with no end in sight, each of us grabbing our side of two faced argument instead of really analyzing the problems and addressing each one simultaneously.
I enjoyed and agreed with a lot of the heart of this post. It's the details that nag at me.
One is #2, what on earth leads one to believe gender population in a classroom leads to education failure or sucess?
On to #4, Parents held accountable? ABSOLUTELY! Should the state run schools decide who as a parent is good or bad? HELL NO, they cannot even weed out thier own crappy teachers, the y sure don't belong in our homes.
One thing I have found since our son moved over to the public school in 9th grade last year, the schools communication sucks. No paperwork sent home, no progress reports, no homework, only one parent conference per year. It goes on. In most, yes not all, but most cases the parents are not the problem it is the union teachers with thier private agendas and hiding behind "procedures" that limit parent involvement and student progress.

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

#58 Aug 19, 2010
speedy wrote:
<quoted text>
...
One thing I have found since our son moved over to the public school in 9th grade last year, the schools communication sucks. No paperwork sent home, no progress reports, no homework, only one parent conference per year. It goes on. In most, yes not all, but most cases the parents are not the problem it is the union teachers with thier private agendas and hiding behind "procedures" that limit parent involvement and student progress.
Where do you live? The schools there sound nothing like the public schools MY children have attended. Trust me, they got homework, I got progress reports and report cards; and I attended parent-teacher conferences twice a year. The Saint Paul schools involved virtually begged for parental involvement, with sign-up sheets for a variety of activities present at the conferences.

My point: don't tar ALL public schools with a broad brush (understandable given your only experience with one).
Gramps

Saint Paul, MN

#59 Aug 19, 2010
Intelligent Adult wrote:
<quoted text>
His family founded a company which now has 350,000 employees and has been integral in developing the high quality of life in this state - economically and culturally.
Too bad you don't notice or appreciate why things are the way they are.
Wake up to reality.... Check the records and you'll find that he never worked with or for the family. He was born into the family name only. He had nothing to do with any hiring for the firm so don't try to feed the BS that he had any part of running the family business. He was born will a Silver spoon in his mouth and lives off the family fortune. When he was elected into the Senate he turned down the pay and not long after wanted to change that and draw the pay anyhow. Common sense tells me that all he's doing is trying to add titles to the family name and continue to do nothing. He is definately not a leader and if he's got a dog, the dog leads him just like the unions would. This state needs someone to lead us out of the mess it is in, not more of the democrat's tax and spend which got us into this mess in the first place.
Mike

Saint Paul, MN

#60 Aug 19, 2010
Intelligent Adult wrote:
Emmer's jobs plans - cut the income of the lowest paid among us.
Brilliant, Tom! They'll love you in rural MN.
Love your title. intelligence has never sounded so moronic. People that provide jobs are leaving this state if Dayton continues to over tax people. Guess what is left??? Welfare cases and illegals. SOOOOOoooooo we will end up like Detroit if we vote DEMs. Do not vote Dayton please people!!!

Since: Aug 10

Henderson, KY

#61 Aug 19, 2010
TOM wrote:
Emmer sounds like Pawlenty lite...Horner has no clue...and Dayton lacks charm...wheres a Wendall Anderson when we need one...hell even a Arnie Carlson sounds good...
How about brother Jessie. Where is he?
Porkulus

Monroe, LA

#63 Aug 19, 2010
Great American Debate wrote:
<quoted text>
This post illustrates my point - while conservatives continue to try to make cost of schools the issue, they completely ignore the actual problems affecting the students that are having trouble while stirring people up to vote for them.$19,000 per pupil is less, mind you less, than the actual per pupil tuition for Minnesota's St Paul Academy for 2010-2011 (K-5 is $22,040; 6-8 is $23,220, and 9-12 is $24, 180). And the cost of living is higher in California than it is in Minnesota. What, public school kids aren't supposed to get the same kind of education as private school kids? Is that what you're saying?
Union To Boycott Newspaper for Exposing Union Failures

Now usually when someone points out that one has done something badly or has failed in something, the average person would look at those accusations and assess where they went wrong in order to correct the situation for the future. Not unions, though. Unions boycott those that point out union failures. Such is the case in Los Angeles as union teachers are organizing a boycott of the L.A. Times for daring to point out that kids in the L.A. school district are all too often failing miserably.

In a series of recent articles the Times used student test scores to estimate the effectiveness of L.A.'s teachers. This infuriated the union...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teach...

Gramps

Saint Paul, MN

#64 Aug 19, 2010
Democrats only used Dayton for one reason. Name recognition. They tried that with Mondale too and you see what happened back then. If you don't think that the unions have their fingers in the pie I suggest you talk to Don Moe who lost a re-election some time back. You just can't get some people woke up to what is going on.
Soothsayer

Saint Paul, MN

#65 Aug 19, 2010
Minnesota needs dayton as govenor like the USA needs another obama as president! Clueless idealogues, nothing more. Zero executive experience as well. We're gonna have a nuclear Iran tomorrow and obummer is on vacation, yes, again! What a statesman! Dayton brings the intellectual capacity of a fence post, and the courage of a cream puff to do what's right. If that dolt get's elected, I may start rooting for the packers...sorry, can't do it...I'll give up watching sports and watch the lynx instead!

“I am always right.”

Since: Oct 09

Former MN Taxpayer

#66 Aug 19, 2010
Soothsayer wrote:
I'll give up watching sports and watch the lynx instead!
Are you saying that you don't consider the Lynx to be a sports team?

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

#68 Aug 19, 2010
Soothsayer wrote:
... obummer is on vacation, yes, again! What a statesman!...
Where were your complaints of lack of statemanship when W took the most vacations of ANY US President to date?

Complaints of taking vacations, or campaigning for higher office when in office are always shallow partisan BS. The same people who complained that Obama was busy campaigning for President while representing Illinois were mysteriously silent while John McCain did exactly the same thing, running for President while representing Arizona.

The people who now complain about T-paw running for President during his Governorship were thrilled that Hubert Humphrey ran for President, and wound up as Vice-President.

I say cut the partisan crap and focus on REAL ISSUES. There is more to a political campaign than "gotcha" cheap shots that serve no one. Yes, my liberal friends, I am saying lay off T-paw's private fantasy -- it doesn't really matter.

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