Next Sun Union Meetings - November 6t...
Why

Alliance, OH

#44 Nov 15, 2012
Clayton Bixby wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again: Thomas is just another poor, misguided soul that would rather work for his .00001% of profit while the fat cats get the other 99.9999%. Give it a rest Thomas. The people at SUN want this union and it is a NEEDED 'insuror of fairness' that ALL companies' employees should strive for. We ALL should refuse to work at a company if there isn't a union. What's wrong with everyone? When are we going to realize that the Thomas's of the world get their faces stepped on all the time and don't mind? Stand up for yourself if you're being treated unfairly!! Get your fair pay, time off, benefits, and working conditions by joining with your fellow workers and DEMANDING it!!!
Oh you will all get your time off.......as soon as you get your way with the union sun will shut down and ou guy will be out of a job and have plenty of time off!
hostess

Alliance, OH

#45 Nov 15, 2012
Union going to demand themselves right out of a job

Since: Oct 12

Los Angeles, CA

#46 Nov 15, 2012
Hostess is a completely different situation as they are going bankrupt. Sun is not going bankrupt.
hostess

Alliance, OH

#47 Nov 15, 2012
ICWUC Coordinator wrote:
Hostess is a completely different situation as they are going bankrupt. Sun is not going bankrupt.
I call bullshit.its not different If they are going bankrupt why would you then go out on strike and make it worse. Makes no sense. It's the union being unreasonable.
yyyyyyy

Talala, OK

#48 Nov 15, 2012
When people say the good ol' days they are usually talking about post ww2. When America became a super power and had the most thriving economy ever. This is when the middle class was created and the true American dream was born. At that point 70% of the jobs in the US were union. Now the economy is low in a dog eat dog environment where company's are moving jobs overseas, not to stay afloat, but to gain more profit at the cost of the average middle class worker. Today less then 7% of the jobs in this country are union. Unions don't bankrupt companies, that wouldn't make much sense. Instead they negotiate pay, retirement, insurance, and / or working conditions for the employees. The reason companies don't like unions has nothing to do with money, it has to do with power and control. Have certain unions done wrong in the past, yes. But unionism, like anything else, is not about each individual persons mistakes. It is about the idea. When you support unions you support the idea that everyone in a work place should be treated equally, that you can't just fire a person for no reason, that if a person dedicates their life to a company then they should have a retirement, that a good days work deserves fair compensation. Every right we enjoy today as workers in any field came from unions and the labor movement. Regulated breaks, 40 hour work weeks, child labor laws, overtime, and all the safety regulations to name a few. And if your ever interested in knowing the struggle that was went through and the blood that was shed to give you these rights just google the battle of Blair mountain. I am a Christian and I know Christians have done wrong in the past, but that doesn't mean the idea is flawed. Unions built the middle class and therefore built this country as we know it. Every right we have was fought for, including workers rights.
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#49 Nov 15, 2012
yyyyyyy wrote:
When you support unions you support the idea that everyone in a work place should be treated equally, that you can't just fire a person for no reason,
You forgot to mention treated equally whether they actually do a day's work or not. That old bull crap about "for no reason" is as stale as last week's fish. People who don't pull their weight is good enough reason for firing a deadbeat,sluggard,or slacker without having to depend on a union to prop them up.
yyyyyyy

United States

#50 Nov 16, 2012
Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't use the correct terminology. I should not have said reason. I should have said just cause. When employees in any line of work form a union, the rights, wages, and conditions don't just fall from the sky. Representatives from the company and union meet to negotiate a labor agreement, sometimes referred to as a contract. Both sides come to an agreement that benefits both parties. This is a legally binding document that both parties must agree to and sign. I have never been aware of, nor do I believe there ever has been, a company to agree to a labor agreement that doesn't give them the right to dismiss employees that are not preforming the tasks they were hired to do. There is as many clauses in any labor agreement that protect an employer as there is to protect a worker. If there wasn't then they wouldn't agree to it. The employees must first be hired by the employer before they can join the union. And on construction jobs where you have a percentage hire and some employees are dispatched by the union, there is always a clause in the agreement that states, "qualification of an employee to preform the tasks in which they are required to do shall be at the sole discretion of the employer". There are always anti-strike clauses in any labor agreement also, so if you see employees on strike it is almost always because the labor agreement was violated by the employer. In the case of Hostess, the company agreed to a labor contract and then tried to amend it before the agreed upon time. That gave the employees the right to strike. To put it into common terms, if you personally financed a vehicle you were selling to me and we agreed that I would pay you $350 every month for a set amount of time. If after six months I called you up and said I was just going to pay $200 a month, at this point you have a right to say, "No, that won't work". I would have violated our agreement and you would have full rights to take back your property. Unions don't give you entitlement, they give you rights. No different then the laws that govern our society.
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#51 Nov 16, 2012
yyyyyyy wrote:
Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't use the correct terminology. I should not have said reason. I should have said just cause. When employees in any line of work form a union, the rights, wages, and conditions don't just fall from the sky. Representatives from the company and union meet to negotiate a labor agreement, sometimes referred to as a contract. Both sides come to an agreement that benefits both parties. This is a legally binding document that both parties must agree to and sign. I have never been aware of, nor do I believe there ever has been, a company to agree to a labor agreement that doesn't give them the right to dismiss employees that are not preforming the tasks they were hired to do. There is as many clauses in any labor agreement that protect an employer as there is to protect a worker. If there wasn't then they wouldn't agree to it. The employees must first be hired by the employer before they can join the union. And on construction jobs where you have a percentage hire and some employees are dispatched by the union, there is always a clause in the agreement that states, "qualification of an employee to preform the tasks in which they are required to do shall be at the sole discretion of the employer". There are always anti-strike clauses in any labor agreement also, so if you see employees on strike it is almost always because the labor agreement was violated by the employer. In the case of Hostess, the company agreed to a labor contract and then tried to amend it before the agreed upon time. That gave the employees the right to strike. To put it into common terms, if you personally financed a vehicle you were selling to me and we agreed that I would pay you $350 every month for a set amount of time. If after six months I called you up and said I was just going to pay $200 a month, at this point you have a right to say, "No, that won't work". I would have violated our agreement and you would have full rights to take back your property. Unions don't give you entitlement, they give you rights. No different then the laws that govern our society.
And when a company is not making it's projections and puts it on the line to see and the employees still don't believe what they have been told because their organization tells them otherwise,let them stand firm with organization and let that organization pay their bills. Do you think the 18,500 Hostess workers will see a different side to the story when they are standing in line for another job trying to equal the one they let someone talk them out of?
yyyyyyy

Bixby, OK

#52 Nov 16, 2012
I hate to see any company go out of business, but this was not an overnight thing. They knew they were over expending themselves and they planned to cut wages to make up for it. They didn't run their business correctly, and unfortunately in the real world, it will sometimes cost you your business. As I stated before, you negotiate a contract for a set amount of time. It is an agreement that both parties come together on. An employer can not expect the employees to bear the load of their mistakes. I might be wrong but you don't seem like a person who would agree with people relying on government assistance. I don't agree with business owners relying on cutting the pay of a man who has helped them build their business for the last 20 years. If the people in both these cases handled their business correctly, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If a person fails it's their fault, but if a business fails it's the employees fault. I just don't see it that way.
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#53 Nov 16, 2012
yyyyyyy wrote:
If a person fails it's their fault, but if a business fails it's the employees fault. I just don't see it that way.
No I don't see it that way either. Companies just don't fallut of the air. People invest their money and take a risk of losing it all or making it go.They are the ones who lose sleep at night wondering how the bill are going to get paid. They bring in investors who expect a good ROI the same as you expect a good return on your 401 or stock investments. The employees take no financial risk and if they get paid each week without fail and have insurance and benefits,they can either live in that payday lifestyle OR use that time to better themselves into a better education or even try going into a business themselves as many do. Those puppies that ride the tit and then demand what the founders made are a sad lot indeed and that's just the mentality the unions look for. Those who put in their forty hours, work hard,pay their bills,and live WITHIN THEIR MEANS should be commended. Those who DEMAND a bigger piece of the action just for occuping space and breathing good air pull the rug out from under good hard working Americans. With the economy still in the toilet, Sun workers may find their path runs the same way of Hostess. Think long and hard.
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#54 Nov 16, 2012
Fall out of the air
another sun worker

Dunmor, KY

#55 Nov 16, 2012
You still dont get it, Thomas, give it up.
FappyTheClown

Georgetown, IN

#56 Nov 16, 2012
I really hope at the next union meeting at Sun....all the people AGAINST the union bring boxes and boxes and boxes of twinkies!!!!!
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#57 Nov 16, 2012
another sun worker wrote:
You still dont get it, Thomas, give it up.
I DO get it. The Hostess people didn't and I hope the SUN people have more sense than to let people talk them out of their job.
Clayton Bixby

Franklin, KY

#58 Nov 16, 2012
They'll be stale if they do.
Clayton Bixby

Franklin, KY

#59 Nov 16, 2012
ThomasA wrote:
<quoted text> I DO get it. The Hostess people didn't and I hope the SUN people have more sense than to let people talk them out of their job.
Well, if you don't get the fact that employees wages are stagnant and prices of everything is going up then you don't live in the real world, Thomas. What are folks supposed to do? That money's going somewhere. You want folks to sit by and let these greedy bastards suck everyone dry?
Clayton Bixby

Franklin, KY

#60 Nov 16, 2012
Any more meetings? Or did the corporate scare tactics and Thomas work?
Clayton Bixby

Franklin, KY

#61 Nov 16, 2012
Thomas, did you get paid for this?

Since: Oct 12

Los Angeles, CA

#62 Nov 17, 2012
There is a new post for the next meetings:

The next Union Meetings for Sun Products Hourly Employees are being held on:

Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 1 PM in Meeting Room 2 at the Holiday Inn Bowling Green

Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 1 PM in Meeting Rooms 3 & 4 at the Holiday Inn Bowling Green.

Hope you and your Families have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Come and get answers to ALL of your questions.
ThomasA

Birmingham, AL

#63 Nov 17, 2012
Clayton Bixby wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you don't get the fact that employees wages are stagnant and prices of everything is going up then you don't live in the real world, Thomas. What are folks supposed to do? That money's going somewhere. You want folks to sit by and let these greedy bastards suck everyone dry?
Do you not think that utilities,raw materials,transportation,insur ance,maintenance,taxes,everyda y overhead expenses are not going up too.There's no magic bucket of money to dip out of to cover those increases. Only politicians can spend and then tax to cover it.

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